• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Market for Warmblood Crosses?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #81
    No, the horse could not have qualified for the Royal in the 3'3" junior hunter. That division doesn't go to the Royal.

    And, for the record, qualifying for the Royal IS a big deal, especially in Ontario. If you qualify in Ontario, the "good company" you will be competing against will be largely the same "good company" you competed against all season in order to qualify.

    Originally posted by RugBug View Post
    I really wasn't going to post again, but I can't help myself.


    Today's lesson: posts do not exist in isolation from the rest of the thread. If you believe they do, you will lack the comprehension to understand what a poster is saying.

    For example: OP posts her thinly-veiled sales ad that she has a nice, attractive, tall mare that can compete in the hunters well enough to qualify for a top show. She did not iindicate what she qualified in, but alluded to the fact it could've been the 3'3" junior hunters.

    Then some stuff about selling the mare vs. breeding the mare that is mostly only relevant to us because it brings up the point that OP thinks she could breed her and get a nicer horse for herself than she can afford to buy. People tell her she's nuts and there are young horses of similar quality to her mare that are out there for not much money.

    OP THEN makes the statement that she doesn't believe there are hunter movers with good conformation available to ANYONE for $500. This post also alludes to the fact that her mare is a nice hunter mover and has good conformation or inthe very least that she believes any foal from her mare would possess these qualities and be at least as nice as her mare.

    Then Couture TB comes in with her nice finds...but who, to some of us, don't seem to fit the same criteria that the OP has posted about or alluded to.

    I left oout a whole bunch about breeding and parentage, etc but it's irrelevant to our tangential discussion. I COULD read just the one post about conformation and movement in isolation and then take the stance that you have, but that's not really the full picture.

    Remember all those reading comprehension tests you had to take in school? The point you keep trying to make is the decoy answer, that one that you can make an argument for, but is not the full picture of the written piece. There is a modicum of truth, but it doesn't account for true comprehension of what was written.

    And with that, I really am done.

    Comment


    • #82
      Originally posted by SquishTheBunny View Post




      There was a little black horse at Devon a few years ago doing the adults that was a warmblood and qh cross. She was reserve champ of her division.
      I didn't think they had the adult hunters at Devon.

      Comment


      • #83
        Originally posted by EAY View Post
        I didn't think they had the adult hunters at Devon.
        It was an adult division...not sure which one. Never saw the horse go, just the photos afterwards It was on a sale ad, so absolutley could have been fabricated.

        And also for the record I agree a nice horse can be found for $500. However, a case like this is RARE. In most cases, if horses are this price they are grade horses sitting out in a field (nothing wrong with that, there are diamonds in the rough!), behavioral issues, soundness issues or an owner issue where the horse must leave asap. If this was the case that nice horses with good conformation who could do well in the hunters were easily found for $500, it would seem rediculous that any horse would sell over that price then.

        Last year I sold a lovely young horse for $10,000. He was 4, thoroughbred and had been out to two shows. He was quiet, fair conformation and an excellent mover (pinned at A level in the hacks). He was not solid on lead changes, and was still considered fairly green. Sure the buyers could have found a similar horse for $500 if they waited and were at the right time at the right place, but knowing this horse passed a vet, was kid friendly (multiple trials at different locations) and had show experience was worth the purchase price to them.

        The horse I have now was an auction lot horse. Couldnt have been more than $500 or so. He was sold to ME as a mid five figure horse because after thousands of dollars in training/showing etc. he had proved himself as a solid A hunter. However, buying off the auction lot would have been risky - he could have been unsound, have behavioural issues (which he does), be a poor mover, poor jumper etc. Buying cheap CAN work for sure, I LOVE those stories - but, its not always easily done and there is a large amount of risk involved.
        Last edited by SquishTheBunny; Jan. 10, 2013, 11:06 AM.

        Comment


        • #84
          Sigh. Well guess I will have to remember to never try to give examples of horses that I own again.

          Though I have to note that the bay jumping in the field was purchased and is still owned by the Bohnams and is doing the AA shows. The bay jumping in the show ring is a Division Champion for 3`6 jumpers and also did very well as a junior hunter on the B circuit.

          All I tried to do was give an example of nice horses that can be found. The OP never at any point said what division, what placing etc her horse had. Did not even post a picture of it. But thank you to the posters who just assumed I was saying my horses were A hunters, when in fact I meant exactly what I posted. No hidden meaning. No having to read for comprehension. Just exactly what the quote showed.

          Comment


          • #85
            Sigh. Well guess I will have to remember to never try to give examples of horses that I own again.

            Though I have to note that the bay jumping in the field was purchased and is still owned by the Bohnams and is doing the AA shows. The bay jumping in the show ring is a Division Champion for 3`6 jumpers and also did very well as a junior hunter on the B circuit.

            All I tried to do was give an example of nice horses that can be found. The OP never at any point said what division, what placing etc her horse had. Did not even post a picture of it. But thank you to the posters who just assumed I was saying my horses were A hunters, when in fact I meant exactly what I posted. No hidden meaning. No having to read for comprehension. Just exactly what the quote showed.

            ETA Sorry forgot she said the division.

            Comment


            • #86
              CortureTB - I did not mean to insult your horses at all. I merely was assuming you suggested a cheap horse (ie. like yours posted) to replace a solid A level hunter. I assume your pricetag to the Bohnams was higher than $500? The photos posted may have not well represented their best jumps as hunters (and I admit, the last photo posted I couldnt open). Im sure they are lovely horses and Im happy you were able to obtain some cheap horses and give them a great career in the show ring. I really think its great that people can put the time and training into a field horse and bring out their full potential. You should be very proud.

              Comment


              • #87
                Originally posted by EAY View Post
                I didn't think they had the adult hunters at Devon.
                They don't. The only hunter divisions for adults are the high and low A/Os or the locals (unless you count green/pro divisions). "A few years ago" the low A/Os didn't exist. So either we're talking about an A/O 3'6 horse or a local hunter. Very different things either way, but being reserve champ of either would connote a very nice horse-- albeit to different degrees
                ~Veronica
                "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
                http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

                Comment


                • #88
                  I'll throw this tidbit in... There was a horse for sale in my area that was a Qhxwarmblood cross. It was a mare by a really nice holsteiner stallion out of a qh mare. The result was a fairly attractive, nice moving, good tempered horse. They had a very difficult time selling it and while I don't know what number they actually GOT for it, I think it was marketed around $6k. I would guess that the OP's horse doesn't have as nice of bloodlines (at least on the warmblood side) but has more show mileage (which for hunters is more important). I would think that $10-20k is a reasonable number for a quiet, easy and WINNING ch/ad hunter, grade or not.


                  And yes, you can definitely buy a horse for $500 or under that has nice conformation and good hunter movement- it just won't have any show mileage.

                  Comment


                  • #89
                    Originally posted by hntrjmprpro45 View Post
                    And yes, you can definitely buy a horse for $500 or under that has nice conformation and good hunter movement- it just won't have any show mileage.
                    I agree. It requires an eye, patience, and luck. But it can be done. Locally, a good example is Catch-22

                    http://members.tripod.com/p3_acres/id171.htm

                    So, ok, $680 and not $500 but the market was much better at that time
                    ~Veronica
                    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
                    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

                    Comment


                    • #90
                      Originally posted by gumshoe View Post
                      And, for the record, qualifying for the Royal IS a big deal, especially in Ontario. If you qualify in Ontario, the "good company" you will be competing against will be largely the same "good company" you competed against all season in order to qualify.
                      I agree qualifying for the big shows like Royal is a big deal but it is not a factor that effects sale price, which is the point others are trying to make but maybe not phrasing as well.

                      There are too many factors that effect qualifying: who rode the horse, did it show at the same venue while gaining points, class size..etc.

                      Actually riding, or even placing, at the big shows increases the sale price not just because of qualifying for the show and then placing among the competition, but for the vote of confidence it gives the new owners. As these are venues a horse might see only once per year you want to know that it will travel well and show well. Knowing it's been in the ring before gives you a little more assurance that if you qualify, you can go to the show and be confident the horse has been there and gotten around.

                      So, in short:
                      Qualifying is an accomplishment, in terms of selling a horse doesn't mean much.
                      Showing at a qualifying horse show, getting around and/or placing=$$

                      Comment


                      • #91
                        Originally posted by gumshoe View Post
                        No, the horse could not have qualified for the Royal in the 3'3" junior hunter. That division doesn't go to the Royal.
                        Thanks! As a Californian, I have no idea what does and doesn't go at the Royal. Is there even a 3'3" junior division, now that I think about it.
                        Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
                        Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"

                        Comment


                        • #92
                          I haven't read everyones post, but it seems like we got a little off topic.

                          OP, in my opinion there is a market for Warmblood crosses. I truly believe that if the horse has great movement, passes a PPE with flying colors, and proven show record, you will be able to maket your mare easily.
                          I just sold an unregistered unknown breeding, mare that I was told she was a Quarter horse, for over 2k. This is without a show record, no PPE, and she had great movement for hunters. I was honest and up front with the buyers on what I knew about the mare and her experiances. She was picked up within a week of my posting.

                          If you decide to breed her, I would try to stay with either warmblood or quarter horse and not try to mix things up any more.

                          Just my opinion. Good luck with your mare.

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #93
                            Look, I know none of you have seen my mare. I know you can find low level (2'6ish maybe) hunters for under $1000 to train yourself. But the point is, I CAN'T buy another horse like my mare for $500. She has a very level temperament, square knees, and is conformationally correct and actually she is an incredible 'huntery' mover.
                            Watermark aka "Cleo" - 5 year old Warmblood cross
                            Foxtrot aka "Raven" - 5 year old Hanoverian
                            Simon Says aka "Sprout" - 4 year old Welsh pony
                            Canadian Eh

                            Comment


                            • #94
                              Originally posted by DebutsShirrocco View Post
                              Look, I know none of you have seen my mare. I know you can find low level (2'6ish maybe) hunters for under $1000 to train yourself. But the point is, I CAN'T buy another horse like my mare for $500. She has a very level temperament, square knees, and is conformationally correct and actually she is an incredible 'huntery' mover.
                              No, that wasn't what was said. It's not just "low level" hunters that can be found for under $1000 if you know how to look and where to look. But that point has been discussed to death, so there's no reason to elaborate further.

                              If I understand your original question, you want to know if there is a market for her and/or her possible progeny? For her as a show horse, yes. Regardless of her breeding, she (possibly) has a record to prove her usefulness. As far as her progeny goes...this is a little iffy. Not because your mare may or may not be nice, but because breeding is really a crapshoot. You could breed her to the nicest WB stallion to ever set foot on this planet and end up with a useless dud. It happens all the time. And often you won't even know it until the foal is older. So you will have possibly bred the mare again already, and if she turns out to be a poor producer, you're possibly stuck with a bunch of useless horses and a useful mare that's out of riding shape, and much less marketable than she is at this current moment. That's the unfortunate thing about breeding - you can breed the best to the best and get something awful. There's nothing you can do about it either. So since it sounds like you don't HAVE to sell her, why don't you just keep her and not breed her? If you can ride her through college, do it. If not, lease her out. Make some money and still get to keep her. I must advise you though - unless you can absolutely be certain that you have the financial means to provide for both the mare and the foal for the rest of their lives, DO NOT BREED HER. There are so many things that could happen and you could end up with a lot of horrible possibilities - things much worse than a foal that isn't marketable.

                              ETA - AS A DISCLAIMER -I don't believe that a horse that may not be marketable in hunterland is "useless." I just used that word to get the point across that for the OP's purposes, these potential foals could be useless.

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #95
                                THE CHANCES ARE unless I spend a year looking, I won't find a mare that has the same quality as mine that doesn't have VICES, or HEALTH ISSUES. There are many nice horses at sales/auctions for under $1000 that are built nice and move good. But the thing is, theres always a reason (For the most part) that nice horses like that are for sale for that cheap. So I'm happy with my mare, she will be sold or leased, and if she's not, I'll breed her. There isn't much people can say to sway me from that.


                                Of course I understand that there can be diamond in the roughs that are found, but they are rare. Also, in Ontario, the Royal is quite a big deal. She has done very well on the A circuit and almost always places top 3.
                                Watermark aka "Cleo" - 5 year old Warmblood cross
                                Foxtrot aka "Raven" - 5 year old Hanoverian
                                Simon Says aka "Sprout" - 4 year old Welsh pony
                                Canadian Eh

                                Comment


                                • #96
                                  Out of curiosity what division did the horse show in at the Royal?

                                  Comment


                                  • #97
                                    Originally posted by JustThatSimple View Post
                                    Out of curiosity what division did the horse show in at the Royal?
                                    She didn't.

                                    Comment


                                    • #98
                                      "I was just wondering if there is any market for crosses? She's showed A at 3'3. And Qualified for the Royal. So, she is above average"

                                      Above is what you asked. You have gotten your answer but continue to argue about the quality of your mare. That makes it sound more like a sales ad to me but here is the answer in a clear and concise format.

                                      1. There is a market for anything including crosses. This could be Free all the way to multiple millions of dollars.
                                      2. A proven show horse can be crossed with a monkey and if it wins, nobody cares that it was crossed with anything.

                                      Comment


                                      • #99
                                        Originally posted by Jack16 View Post
                                        2. A proven show horse can be crossed with a monkey and if it wins, nobody cares that it was crossed with anything.
                                        So true!

                                        Comment


                                        • I got tired, and didn't clearly read all of the posts.

                                          OP, for your mare as a competitive horse in the hunters, she will fetch what someone will pay. That range is $7500 to $50,000 depending on your connections and the buyer. Maybe more if you play in that league.

                                          As for breeding, I do not. but with the unidentified cross you describe, all I can picture is HYPP and shivers.

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X