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Market for Warmblood Crosses?

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  • #61
    Got this one for $100 http://m297.photobucket.com/albumvie...3.jpg.html?o=2
    This one for free http://m297.photobucket.com/albumvie...?o=21&newest=1
    This one for $600 and that was when the market was better http://m297.photobucket.com/albumvie....jpg.html?o=46
    This one for $400 http://m297.photobucket.com/albumvie....jpg.html?o=49
    And this hunter type pony for $300 http://m297.photobucket.com/albumvie...jpg.html?o=104

    And I could go on and on. They all needed either training, fixing, or to be started. But you can find talent for a low price if you don't care about breed or training.


    - Im sorry, dont take this with offense, but none of those horses look like the quality of hunters in disussion. They seem super cute, but more like local level horses. Sure, you can find a cheap horse under $1000 that may be able to do ok in the local hunters, but in THIS area (where OP is), people are selling their nice young hunter prospects in the $8,000-16,000 range. NOT $500.

    Comment


    • #62
      Nobody said anything about competing at the Royal. My post was in response about not being able to find a horse that has good conformation that could also do the hunters for a low price.

      Comment


      • #63
        But I think the OP is talking about a horse nice enough to replace hers (ie. qualify for the royal). I would doubt she wants to replace her horse with a local level hunter. LOTS of cheap thoroughbreds and other grades have good conformation and can do low level hunters.

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by SquishTheBunny View Post
          Got this one for $100 http://m297.photobucket.com/albumvie...3.jpg.html?o=2
          This one for free http://m297.photobucket.com/albumvie...?o=21&newest=1
          This one for $600 and that was when the market was better http://m297.photobucket.com/albumvie....jpg.html?o=46
          This one for $400 http://m297.photobucket.com/albumvie....jpg.html?o=49
          And this hunter type pony for $300 http://m297.photobucket.com/albumvie...jpg.html?o=104

          And I could go on and on. They all needed either training, fixing, or to be started. But you can find talent for a low price if you don't care about breed or training.


          - Im sorry, dont take this with offense, but none of those horses look like the quality of hunters in disussion. They seem super cute, but more like local level horses. Sure, you can find a cheap horse under $1000 that may be able to do ok in the local hunters, but in THIS area (where OP is), people are selling their nice young hunter prospects in the $8,000-16,000 range. NOT $500.
          Says the same person who thinks a QH/WB cross of unknown breeding is going to sell for mid to high five figures...

          Furthermore, the OP didn't say anything about a top winning hunter for under $500. In fact, she didn't even mention a horse's jump! She said conformationally correct and hunter movement.

          And for the love of God, qualifying for the Royal means jack squat.

          Comment


          • #65
            No, qualifying for the royal in Ontario in a 3 foot or 3`6 division isnt jack squat, you need to have a horse to does well.

            And yes, my friend sold her Grade horse (Percheron Thoroughbred) cross who did the 1.40m classes for $80,000 and went on to do very well in the CET classes.

            A warmblood thoroughbred cross that went to the royal in the childrens hunters (not champion, but did receive a few ribbons) sold for $120,000.


            No, the op didnt say she could finda top winning hunter for under $500, quite the opposite. It sure CAN be done, but its difficult and risky. Spending more money and going to qualified breeders that breed specifically for the hunter ring will give you a better shot.

            I do agree that you can find a conformationally sound horse, that could be hunter type for $500. However the chances of it being a GOOD hunter are less than one specifically bred. Lots of decent Thoroughbreds for that price range.

            Merely, my point is that hunters arent judged on their breed. If the horse performs as well as the OP says it does, it is a valuable horse. NOT for breeding though.

            There was a little black horse at Devon a few years ago doing the adults that was a warmblood and qh cross. She was reserve champ of her division.

            Now, I take all this back with a grain of salt if the horse hasnt infact competed in an over fences division at the royal. Pretty much anyhorse can get there for line classes.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by SquishTheBunny View Post
              No, qualifying for the royal in Ontario in a 3 foot or 3`6 division isnt jack squat, you need to have a horse to does well.

              And yes, my friend sold her Grade horse (Percheron Thoroughbred) cross who did the 1.40m classes for $80,000 and went on to do very well in the CET classes.

              No, the op didnt say she could finda top winning hunter for under $500, quite the opposite. It sure CAN be done, but its difficult and risky. Spending more money and going to qualified breeders that breed specifically for the hunter ring will give you a better shot.

              I do agree that you can find a conformationally sound horse, that could be hunter type for $500. However the chances of it being a GOOD hunter are less than one specifically bred. Lots of decent Thoroughbreds for that price range.

              Merely, my point is that hunters arent judged on their breed. If the horse performs as well as the OP says it does, it is a valuable horse. NOT for breeding though.

              There was a little black horse at Devon a few years ago doing the adults that was a warmblood and qh cross. She was reserve champ of her division.

              Now, I take all this back with a grain of salt if the horse hasnt infact competed in an over fences division at the royal. Pretty much anyhorse can get there for line classes.
              There is a HUGE difference between a 6yo who's shown 1.0m and a horse who's obviously done well enough at the 1.40m to garner that sort of price tag.

              And I repeat... qualifying for the Royal doesn't mean anything. It's a matter of points. The horse could have gotten enough points to qualify in less than spectacular company. It's nice to say and all, but until the horse goes there and proves itself in the "big ring" against good company, it's doesn't hold a whole lot of merit.

              The point is, the OP said no one could find a horse who was conformationally correct with hunter movement for under $500. She was wrong. Several posters chimed in that she was wrong. A poster showed some nice horses she got for nominal amounts, and you decided to insult them because they aren't "Royal material".

              Comment


              • #67
                I agree with Squish that those horses linked to are not the type the OP was referring to based on the photos shown. Yes, you can find a horse for $500 that you can take into hunter classes. But finding one with the jump, style, temperament and movement is a whole nother ball game. personally if those horses were marketed as hunters with those pictures, I would only consider the first and maybe the pony (but I'd want to see a jumping picture first thing). They may be wonderful horses and were obviously good deals, but they don't really scream hunter to my, admittedly local level, eyes.

                While I coughed at the price range Squish suggested, if a horse can be competitive at one of the tops shows in the country, well, those aren't unheard of prices by any means and are on the low side.
                Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
                Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by RugBug View Post
                  I agree with Squish that those horses linked to are not the type the OP was referring to based on the photos shown. Yes, you can find a horse for $500 that you can take into hunter classes. But finding one with the jump, style, temperament and movement is a whole nother ball game.

                  While I coughed at the price range Squish suggested, if a horse can be competitive at one of the tops shows in the country, well, those aren't unheard of prices by any means.
                  Goodness, does no one read for comprehension anymore? This is what Couture was posting in response to:

                  You cannot buy a horse who moves like a hunter, and is conformationally correct for $500. I don't care what Anyone says, you can't.
                  She's not claiming that the horses are going to go rack up the ribbons at Thermal. Jeeze.

                  (And again, the horse just "qualified" for the Royal. As in she didn't go. As far as we know, she was not competitive at one of the top shows in the country. )

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by over the moon View Post
                    Goodness, does no one read for comprehension anymore? This is what Couture was posting in response to:



                    She's not claiming that the horses are going to go rack up the ribbons at Thermal. Jeeze.

                    (And again, the horse just "qualified" for the Royal. As in she didn't go. As far as we know, she was not competitive at one of the top shows in the country. )
                    And your comprehension is just as off as mine if you are trying to judge those pictures based on "conformationally correct" and "moves like a hunter." I see one poor quality conformation shots and the rest are o/f shots, many of them blurry. Certainly can't assess conformation and hunter movement from those.

                    Pot, meet kettle.
                    Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
                    Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by RugBug View Post
                      And your comprehension is just as off as mine if you are trying to judge those pictures based on "conformationally correct" and "moves like a hunter." I see one poor quality conformation shots and the rest are o/f shots, many of them blurry. Certainly can't assess conformation and hunter movement from those.

                      Pot, meet kettle.
                      I agree, you cannot. Wouldn't matter how nice the horses are, without video footage and confo shots, you cannot judge movement and conformation. That's pretty much a given, I thought. Wasn't claiming otherwise.

                      I just think it's a shame to critique someone's horses on the standards that they do not appear to be of the quality of the horses at the tippy top of the sport when the posters was just trying to show that there are non-crap horses under $500.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Over the Moon - sure, you can find a conformationally correct horse for $500. But I guess the term `hunter` is subjective. Heck, the saddlebred down the road went to a local schooling show and got a hunter ribbon!! And as I have posted before, I DISAGREE that you cant find a conformationally sound horse that moves ok for $500. BUT - that is NOT what the OP is looking for here, and its NOT what should be compared to her horse.

                        And I did not mean to insult those horses at all. They are cute horses like I had already mentioned. Based on the pictures posted, they did not have the jump style to compare with the AA hunter prospects (which generally come at a much higher price). They are certainly FINE horses (picture wise) considering how much they were purchased for!

                        I still think a quiet young hunter that can be top 10 of a division (regardless of going to the royal or not) can be sold in a higher pricerange. And I agree, a conformationally sound and decent moving horse (usually thoroughbred) can also be picked up for $500. Very few can make it to top 10 of a rated core division though.
                        I love finding cheap greenies and putting work into them, but I think people have probably misunderstood the context of this thread.

                        The OP wants to know if her GRADE mare is as valuable as a full warmblood in the hunter ring. I think everyone agrees here that hunters are based on performance, not dollars.

                        The OP needs to prove herself here with show results -

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by SquishTheBunny View Post
                          Over the Moon - sure, you can find a conformationally correct horse for $500. But I guess the term `hunter` is subjective. Heck, the saddlebred down the road went to a local schooling show and got a hunter ribbon!! And as I have posted before, I DISAGREE that you cant find a conformationally sound horse that moves ok for $500. BUT - that is NOT what the OP is looking for here, and its NOT what should be compared to her horse.

                          And I did not mean to insult those horses at all. They are cute horses like I had already mentioned. Based on the pictures posted, they did not have the jump style to compare with the AA hunter prospects (which generally come at a much higher price). They are certainly FINE horses (picture wise) considering how much they were purchased for!

                          I still think a quiet young hunter that can be top 10 of a division (regardless of going to the royal or not) can be sold in a higher pricerange. And I agree, a conformationally sound and decent moving horse (usually thoroughbred) can also be picked up for $500. Very few can make it to top 10 of a rated core division though.
                          I love finding cheap greenies and putting work into them, but I think people have probably misunderstood the context of this thread.

                          The OP wants to know if her GRADE mare is as valuable as a full warmblood in the hunter ring. I think everyone agrees here that hunters are based on performance, not dollars.

                          The OP needs to prove herself here with show results -
                          I agree with all of this.

                          My only issue is holding those horses to the standard of being competitive at the top shows of the country. It is my understanding that Couture posted them in response to the OP's comment about not being able to find a horse under $500 with only two criteria: good conformation and "hunter" movement. Since we can't really judge that from the photos, I think it's best we not pass judgment, particularly on things that were not trying to be proven in the first place (ie, winner at big A/AA shows).

                          Oh, and FTR, I have nothing against "crosses" for sport (breeding is another can of worms). Perhaps call the mare a "Sport Horse" and focus on her attributes in the show ring.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by over the moon View Post

                            I just think it's a shame to critique someone's horses on the standards that they do not appear to be of the quality of the horses at the tippy top of the sport when the posters was just trying to show that there are non-crap horses under $500.
                            Yes, but I also think it's a shame when someone chimes with pictures of their horses trying to prove a point that really does nothing for the arguement. I fully believe there are really nice quality horses out there that you can find for $500 that could do some of the top shows...and do them well. But you need a lot of knowledge, connections and ability to find and make those horses up. Most of us are missing one or more of those crucial elements. Poster may only have been trying to say that there are non-crap horses out there for under $500, but that lacks the reading comprehension that you are accusing others of as well.

                            As for the OP, I really think she was just posting a thinly veiled sales ad and then got all huffy when threads do want threads do. Trying to control people's responses is silly and futile...and makes you look like a wingnut.
                            Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
                            Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by RugBug View Post
                              Yes, but I also think it's a shame when someone chimes with pictures of their horses trying to prove a point that really does nothing for the arguement. I fully believe there are really nice quality horses out there that you can find for $500 that could do some of the top shows...and do them well. But you need a lot of knowledge, connections and ability to find and make those horses up. Most of us are missing one or more of those crucial elements. Poster may only have been trying to say that there are non-crap horses out there for under $500, but that lacks the reading comprehension that you are accusing others of as well.

                              As for the OP, I really think she was just posting a thinly veiled sales ad and then got all huffy when threads do want threads do. Trying to control people's responses is silly and futile...and makes you look like a wingnut.
                              I guess I thought it was pretty clear that this:

                              Originally posted by Couture TB View Post
                              Got this one for $100 http://m297.photobucket.com/albumvie...3.jpg.html?o=2
                              This one for free http://m297.photobucket.com/albumvie...?o=21&newest=1
                              This one for $600 and that was when the market was better http://m297.photobucket.com/albumvie....jpg.html?o=46
                              This one for $400 http://m297.photobucket.com/albumvie....jpg.html?o=49
                              And this hunter type pony for $300 http://m297.photobucket.com/albumvie...jpg.html?o=104

                              And I could go on and on. They all needed either training, fixing, or to be started. But you can find talent for a low price if you don't care about breed or training.
                              ...was in response to this:

                              Originally posted by DebutsShirrocco View Post
                              You cannot buy a horse who moves like a hunter, and is conformationally correct for $500. I don't care what Anyone says, you can't.
                              But maybe that's just me. Either way, we cannot say that the horses pictured are NOT conformationally correct and hunter movers, so perhaps it's best to leave well enough alone.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by over the moon View Post
                                I guess I thought it was pretty clear that this:



                                ...was in response to this:



                                But maybe that's just me. Either way, we cannot say that the horses pictured are NOT conformationally correct and hunter movers, so perhaps it's best to leave well enough alone.
                                You are correct if that was the only thing written. BUT, reading comprehesion is about taking all the pieces and building a clear picture, not isolating one sentence from all other information. There is more context that you are ignoring to try to make a point. And that's fine if it's what you want to do, it's just not very relevant to the OP's posts/questions.
                                Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
                                Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"

                                Comment


                                • #76
                                  Originally posted by RugBug View Post
                                  You are correct if that was the only thing written. BUT, reading comprehesion is about taking all the pieces and building a clear picture, not isolating one sentence from all other information. There is more context that you are ignoring to try to make a point. And that's fine if it's what you want to do, it's just not very relevant to the OP's posts/questions.
                                  I really don't think I am. The OP made a post saying that there are no horses in existence that have good conformation and hunter movement for under $500. Couture chimed in a few posts later with photos and prices (at or under the mentioned $500). That's pretty cut and dry if you ask me.

                                  Sure, perhaps Couture would have quoted the post to eliminate any and all question as to what she was trying to exemplify, but I really don't think it was that necessary. You're grasping at straws to say she meant anything more than what I referenced in my last post. I think 99% of people can see that.

                                  Today's lesson: be sure to quote the post you are referencing, even if it seems obvious.

                                  PS: I didn't isolate one sentence. That was the entire post.

                                  Comment


                                  • #77
                                    Ooh, Couture's post has the OP's quote I pulled above. I must have missed that in my assumption that someone was arguing what she meant because she wasn't clear. It seems she was quite clear.

                                    Can this be put to bed now?

                                    Comment


                                    • #78
                                      Originally posted by over the moon View Post
                                      I really don't think I am. The OP made a post saying that there are no horses in existence that have good conformation and hunter movement for under $500. Couture chimed in a few posts later with photos and prices (at or under the mentioned $500). That's pretty cut and dry if you ask me.

                                      Sure, perhaps Couture would have quoted the post to eliminate any and all question as to what she was trying to exemplify, but I really don't think it was that necessary. You're grasping at straws to say she meant anything more than what I referenced in my last post. I think 99% of people can see that.

                                      Today's lesson: be sure to quote the post you are referencing, even if it seems obvious.

                                      PS: I didn't isolate one sentence. That was the entire post.
                                      I really wasn't going to post again, but I can't help myself.


                                      Today's lesson: posts do not exist in isolation from the rest of the thread. If you believe they do, you will lack the comprehension to understand what a poster is saying.

                                      For example: OP posts her thinly-veiled sales ad that she has a nice, attractive, tall mare that can compete in the hunters well enough to qualify for a top show. She did not iindicate what she qualified in, but alluded to the fact it could've been the 3'3" junior hunters.

                                      Then some stuff about selling the mare vs. breeding the mare that is mostly only relevant to us because it brings up the point that OP thinks she could breed her and get a nicer horse for herself than she can afford to buy. People tell her she's nuts and there are young horses of similar quality to her mare that are out there for not much money.

                                      OP THEN makes the statement that she doesn't believe there are hunter movers with good conformation available to ANYONE for $500. This post also alludes to the fact that her mare is a nice hunter mover and has good conformation or inthe very least that she believes any foal from her mare would possess these qualities and be at least as nice as her mare.

                                      Then Couture TB comes in with her nice finds...but who, to some of us, don't seem to fit the same criteria that the OP has posted about or alluded to.

                                      I left oout a whole bunch about breeding and parentage, etc but it's irrelevant to our tangential discussion. I COULD read just the one post about conformation and movement in isolation and then take the stance that you have, but that's not really the full picture.

                                      Remember all those reading comprehension tests you had to take in school? The point you keep trying to make is the decoy answer, that one that you can make an argument for, but is not the full picture of the written piece. There is a modicum of truth, but it doesn't account for true comprehension of what was written.

                                      And with that, I really am done.
                                      Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
                                      Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"

                                      Comment


                                      • #79
                                        Sasha: I have a pair of black Jimmy Choo heels! They are 5'' tall! They are the bee's knees! I paid $600 for them!

                                        Albert: I guess they're alright, if you like Jimmy Choos.

                                        Rebecca: You can get black heels that are 5'' for $20!

                                        Mark: I like Jimmy Choos. Jimmy Choos are the best.

                                        Sasha: You can't get black heels that are 5'' for $20! No one can!

                                        Betsy: I have black 5'' heels that I paid $15 for. Here, look.

                                        RugBug: They aren't as nice as Jimmy Choos. Why would you show us those?

                                        *headdesk*

                                        There ARE things that exist inside of other things. They can be more specific. They can have nothing to do with the rest of what was said. We don't need to assume that someone means something they may or may not mean. We can take what they say literally, instead of assuming that they are ALLUDING to something they did not say.

                                        All this because a poster said something in direct response to ONE POST, which they quoted, and I disagree with some people trying saying that said poster is ALLUDING something entirely different than what they posted, and that the person they are quoting was ALLUDING to something else, that, again, they did not post.

                                        I tried, but I still don't think I used allude more than you. Oy vey. You know what they say when you assume...

                                        Comment


                                        • #80
                                          Wow, I see this thread went a little haywire. It's my understanding that the OP said you can't find a hunter mover with correct conformation. If you want to really split hairs she didn't even say it had to be a good mover! A hunter mover in my mind would be one that is flat kneed with a nice size canter. Doesn't need to be the winner anywhere.

                                          Anyway, I respectfully disagree with those who said horses with the total package can't be found cheap. It is true however that it is a lost art these days. However if you have the eye for it, and know where to look it can ABSOLUTELY be done. We had one come out of our barn that won (not just qualified!) at Devon, Harrisburg, the National, WEF etc as an A/O hunter. He was bought for $200 out of a field. It can be done. It isn't easy, it takes a skill that most don't possess and of course it's a risk. However, it is far from impossible. I'll see if I can dig up some photo of him when I'm on the computer.

                                          Comment

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