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Market for Warmblood Crosses?

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  • #41
    LesssugarMorespice,

    If I was shopping, I would wonder if the mare was bred rather than sold/leased earlier because she was injured/lame at the time. Yes, obvious to prove the mare had a foal, but not obvious to prove why she was bred in the first place.
    Freeing worms from cans everywhere!

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    • Original Poster

      #42
      I've always dealt in Thoroughbreds and Warmbloods. Never crosses.


      I was wondering if there is a MARKET for CROSSES.


      I'm not interested in selling her at the moment. And this isn't a sales post.
      Watermark aka "Cleo" - 5 year old Warmblood cross
      Foxtrot aka "Raven" - 5 year old Hanoverian
      Simon Says aka "Sprout" - 4 year old Welsh pony
      Canadian Eh

      Comment


      • #43
        There isn't much market for QH/QH Xs in the "A" circuit world. Some can be built downhill which is a disadvantage in jumping, but some are really nice. So, she definitely wouldn't fetch the price a mare of her same temperament and experience but pure warmblood would. Has she been to any Finals? I know you said she qualified but what really matters is if the horse has been in those big rings. Actually riding at those shows, especially placing, will bump up the price, cross or not. That all being said, there's always a market for a good hunter, with a good mind, and safe for an adult.

        If I were in your situation, I would enjoy your mare while you have her. Keep showing and adding to her show record. Then, lease her out and buy a young one with known bloodlines. You could even purchase in vitro if you really wanted a foal to bring along. Leasing her: increases the amount of people who would be interested, you have the potential to get more money over time for leasing than what her purchase price might be, and who knows, the person leasing may fall in love and want to buy. Or, after a few leases, she can retire at your farm and you get to keep the mare your family enjoys so much. Buying a young one would be a better investment because: you could register it, would be easier to sell and much more profitable to breed and sell its offspring, giving you many more viable options.

        Comment


        • #44
          I'm sorry, I think I misinterpreted your first post. You are asking about the market for the MARE not the resulting crossbred offspring. Ok. I get it now. If your mare is sound and sane and successful showing on the A circuit, yes, there is a market for her. Rest assured that whoever buys her will change her name, rip up any papers that exist that document her QH heritage, and refer to her simply as a warmblood. While personally I wouldn't lie about her breeding when selling her, I certainly wouldn't feature it in the sales ad.

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          • #45
            Ask yourself if you would market her as an "unknown quarter horse cross"

            There's you answer. Her value will be as a show horse only. It does not matter what her damns other babies did if they are not the same cross, it matters who was their daddy?

            Your tell was "If you don't sell her, you 'd breed her".


            This is a very thinly veiled sales ad, and I would think that with the benefit of your parents facility, marketing your homebred, successful show mare should be very, very easy.

            Is it possible that crossed with a lovely warmblood stallion she would have a very nice foal? Yes, it's also possible that it will look like it's grandpa who may or may not be a short necked, short strided, short pasterned quarter horse.

            Now that isn't to say that you can't breed two lovely horses and get the same thing, and it isn't to say you aren't within your rights to take a chance on the crapshoot that is breeding. But if you then try to market your mare, post whatever kind of baby she has, minus a continuous show record, then you have just decreased her value. Even more if the baby is a dud.

            Sounds like you have access to stock with nicer pedigrees for breeding, sounds like she would make someone a nice A/O horse. I'd sell first, least second, probably not breed at all, until I had my own place and didn't care what kind of a baby she had.

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            • #46
              Her strength lies in her show record. So if you do market her, focus on her accomplishments and price her accordingly. Give yourself a set timeline and if she doesn't sell, reevaluate her price. Some people don't care about breeding and will pay the exact same for a Warmblood as a WarmbloodX. Others will care about her breeding because their reasons for purchasing are two-fold (showing and later breeding).

              If she has a solid record, don't sell her short. Many people would not intentionally breed a QH/Warmblood but she's on the ground and has proven that in this instance that cross worked out well. That's all most people care about.

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              • #47
                To answer your question, is there a market for a foal out of a QH/warmblood, probably not much. I mean when you factor in all the costs to get from conception to weaning.

                Market for the foal once he/she is grown, has stayed 100% sound, and you've paid all the costs with getting he/she into the ring and winning. Most likely yes.

                Terri
                COTH, keeping popcorn growers in business for years.

                "I need your grace to remind me to find my own." Snow Patrol-Chasing Cars. This line reminds me why I have horses.

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                • #48
                  If it is the mare you are marketing for sale as a winning Ammy horse, there is always a market for a good horse.
                  -Be honest with the buyers she is a QH/Hano cross (I think that is what I read)
                  -You seem young, get a trainer's assistance in the marketing of the mare

                  The marketing of the foal- let me give you my cliff note version of my OWN story with a WB/QH cross.
                  -Rescued QH mare and foal, long story, knew stallion owners blah blah
                  -Stallion was a very famous sire
                  -Some interest when she showed on the b/c of daddy, no one was thrilled w/ the QH cross
                  -Kept foal, now 6, 8 plus mover, jumps the moon
                  Now perhaps there would be interest in her. I am ALWAYS honest. She is a QH crossed w/ a warmblood daddy, who happens to be famous.

                  You really have to be honest with yourself. You have a lot of emotion tied up in the mare. She may be a top selling hunter. This does not mean she'll PRODUCE top hunters. Only time will tell.
                  Come to the dark side, we have cookies

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    (all emphasis/bolding in the below quotes is mine)

                    Originally posted by BeeHoney View Post
                    From a business perspective and given the information you have posted, the better option is absolutely to sell the mare. Assuming she is sound and currently in work and in showable condition, you will make MUCH more money from selling her outright vs. breeding her. Even lovely purebred/registered young warmbloods are selling routinely for less than what it cost to produce them. No matter how nice your mare is and how fabulous the stallion is that you breed her to, the sale of the resulting offspring at age 1, 2, or 3 might or might not even offset your costs of having bred and raised it. In addition, breeding is risky. You could lose the foal--or even the mare--entirely, or end up with huge veterinary expenses, or simply end up with a young horse with some defect that prevents it from being a useful animal.

                    Further, having taken time off to be a broodmare reduces your mare's value. It is a year and a half out of training and out of the show ring at a young age and future buyers will be suspicious as to why you gave her a year off to have a foal at such a young age, even if you have a very good explanation.

                    As far as the WB vs. WB cross issue, yes, that will decrease the value of your mare's offspring until they are mature and are out competing and proving their value in the show ring. If you are selling a 6 year old who is out showing and winning--no one is going to care about the breeding. But for a 1, 2, or 3 year old, yes, it will reduce the value and also make a sale a little more difficult. ....
                    Totally agree, BeeHoney.


                    Originally posted by AirForceWife View Post
                    It sounds to me like your mind is made up so why did you ask the question?
                    This was exactly what was going through my mind, too, AFW!


                    Originally posted by tyedyecommando View Post
                    You mare is crossed with a quarter horse that you don't even know the name of. The quarter horse is a wild card and not typically accepted in war blood breeding. She's better off in the performance ring and as a 6 year old there no guarantee of her potential or future soundness.
                    Sell.
                    Double Ditto here.


                    Originally posted by vxf111 View Post
                    Aren't you answering your own question? Clearly you think there's a market for warmblood crosses because you own one and are contemplating using her to make more?! I don't understand what you're looking for here. There is always a market for a good horse as a riding horse. As a mare, would she be worth MORE as a papered full warmblood? Maybe, maybe not. Probably. But there's certainly a market for her even as a cross as a nice riding horse. Beyond that, it depends on the individual. Only you know your situation and whether breeding makes sense, you haven't given us nearly enough information to make educated suggestions. Did you just want ego stroking? Your mare sounds super.
                    again, exactly what I was thinking!


                    Originally posted by 2bayboys View Post
                    Are you asking if there is a market for WB crosses as performance horses? Of course, depending on her record. What else did you need to know?

                    Or is this just a sales ad?
                    My suspicions exactly.


                    Originally posted by 2ndyrgal View Post
                    There's you answer. Her value will be as a show horse only. It does not matter what her damns other babies did if they are not the same cross, it matters who was their daddy?

                    Your tell was "If you don't sell her, you 'd breed her".


                    This is a very thinly veiled sales ad, and I would think that with the benefit of your parents facility, marketing your homebred, successful show mare should be very, very easy.

                    Is it possible that crossed with a lovely warmblood stallion she would have a very nice foal? Yes, it's also possible that it will look like it's grandpa who may or may not be a short necked, short strided, short pasterned quarter horse.

                    Now that isn't to say that you can't breed two lovely horses and get the same thing, and it isn't to say you aren't within your rights to take a chance on the crapshoot that is breeding. But if you then try to market your mare, post whatever kind of baby she has, minus a continuous show record, then you have just decreased her value. Even more if the baby is a dud.

                    Sounds like you have access to stock with nicer pedigrees for breeding, sounds like she would make someone a nice A/O horse. I'd sell first, least second, probably not breed at all, until I had my own place and didn't care what kind of a baby she had.
                    I second 2ndyrgal


                    Oh, and ETA:
                    Originally posted by Lady Eboshi View Post
                    Please do not breed her. There are thousands of horses going hungry in this country because there are not enough homes/jobs for them. Backyarders breeding horses just to give them something to do is a huge part of this problem.

                    You are talking about breeding a grade mare--sorry, but that's meat on the hoof.
                    Purebred weanlings of many sorts are selling for $500 right now. Just sayin'.
                    AMEN.
                    Originally posted by Martha Drum
                    ...But I don't want to sit helmetless on my horse while he lies on the ground kicking a ball around without a bridle while Leatherface does an interpretive dance with his chainsaw around us.

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #50
                      You cannot buy a horse who moves like a hunter, and is conformationally correct for $500. I don't care what Anyone says, you can't.
                      Watermark aka "Cleo" - 5 year old Warmblood cross
                      Foxtrot aka "Raven" - 5 year old Hanoverian
                      Simon Says aka "Sprout" - 4 year old Welsh pony
                      Canadian Eh

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        Originally posted by DebutsShirrocco View Post
                        You cannot buy a horse who moves like a hunter, and is conformationally correct for $500. I don't care what Anyone says, you can't.
                        Your market must suck a whole lot less than our market because you absolutely can buy a conformationally correct good mover for $500 or less. Mind you, it helps if you know the right people, and the horses aren't a dime a dozen.

                        Since my name isn't Anyone, maybe you'll consider that you may be incorrect on this point.
                        "I'm not always sarcastic. Sometimes I'm asleep." - Harry Dresden

                        Amy's Stuff - Rustic chic and country linens and decor
                        Support my mom! She's gotta finance her retirement horse somehow.

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          There is absolutely a market for crosses. Not so much as babies....but then there isn't much of a market for baby horses.

                          But if the dam is nice, and you pick a good stallion for her...the fact that she has some QH in her bloodlines will not matter much in the long run for selling her offspring.

                          A big question mark is the QH sire. Look at what he has thrown. I'm sure he was a nice type to begin with if you parents originally choose him...but you need to consider him as well as the dam line in picking a sire for your mare.

                          There are a LOT of extremely nice QH crosses out there. The biggest negative will be for selling to other breeders if you get a filly. As an unregistered foal, it will not be as marketable as one with papers. But a nice horse is a nice horse. The vast majority of buyers in the show worlds are not going to care about the breeding but will be judging the young horse in front of them. And if you are not going to be marketing the foal until it undersaddle and going....very few if any of the buyers then are going to care one little bit about the breeding.

                          So if you like this dam, and think she can produce a nice sport horse....her breeding is irrelevenant. It is only relevant in predicting your chances of producing that good sport horse.....or in selling very young offspring.

                          ETA: And it sounds like from your description of the mare your market would be the ammy adults or junior market. Not trying to produce a GP jumper or Olympic horse. For the ammy markets....good mind is critical. A little QH mind in a good moving and jumping body....would be very marketable in that market.
                          ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

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                          • #53
                            The problem with trying to get a quarter horse mind in a good mover is...

                            You don't get to pick what traits transfer. You might get a quarter horse mover and a hot warmblood brain. If you could accurately predict what a hot/cold cross would get you, all the breeders would be rich, and all the horses would be quiet, 10 movers with perfect conformation and be ammy friendly. There would then be thousands of them and we'd all own one.

                            It just doesn't work that way.

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              What might you need to think about is the difference between breeding stock and others. If in every line of its pedigree, the horses share strong abilities and characteristics, then they will reproduce same. If the cross represents a mix of very similiar phenotypes, then your mare is a good candidate for breeding, else it is a roll of the dice.

                              I'm no expert, but I have thought about breeding quite a bit. I'm currently starting and riding my homebred, a Hanoverian-Arabian cross. He's awesome and turned out about as I expected. He cost thousands to put on the ground and as a stallion he has limited value, so he was gelded. Crosses don't usually produce same due to the variations in their background.

                              Having said all that, I love him. He has talent, and I am thrilled with riding and developing 'my horse'.

                              What you might do is create a written analysis of both his parents' bloodlines and why you expect the cross to be successful. The byproduct of a cross can be hybrid vigor and that is a good thing. If you plan to keep the foal and develop it into a riding horse, then try your hand at it. It sure is satisfying.

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                Originally posted by 2ndyrgal View Post
                                You don't get to pick what traits transfer. You might get a quarter horse mover and a hot warmblood brain. If you could accurately predict what a hot/cold cross would get you, all the breeders would be rich, and all the horses would be quiet, 10 movers with perfect conformation and be ammy friendly. There would then be thousands of them and we'd all own one.

                                It just doesn't work that way.
                                There are also a hell of a lot of good moving QH. If this QH sire was one that picked to breed H/J horses...he probably has a large dose of TB blood and very possibly helped the dam produce the nice hunter mare she did. We do NOT have enough information....and why I said she needs to research her dam's sire more before making a decision.
                                ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Originally posted by DebutsShirrocco View Post
                                  You cannot buy a horse who moves like a hunter, and is conformationally correct for $500. I don't care what Anyone says, you can't.
                                  Really, you can't? How much you wanna bet? I could use some extra cash. You're apparently blissfully ignorant of the reality of today's market if you think you can't buy a conformationally correct horse with hunter movement....it's not as though being a conformationally correct hunter mover is exactly a rarity.

                                  It's posts like the above one that make me miss the red thumb. You obviously don't want help, since you responded to the post with the above, but completely ignored any of the helpful advice and or questions. You're throwing away plenty of knowledgeable advice given you be people that are older, wiser and have actually been in the industry for much longer than you. Keep up the "I know everything attitude and you can't change my mind" - it's not like people like you are new to the horse industry.

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    Originally posted by SquishTheBunny View Post
                                    Im thinking $50,000-75,000 as a sound riding horse.
                                    I have some land in SW Florida .....................

                                    "Cross" is just another word for "grade".
                                    ... _. ._ .._. .._

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                                    • #58
                                      A simple, unjudgemental discussion would suffice, folks.
                                      Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        Originally posted by DebutsShirrocco View Post
                                        You cannot buy a horse who moves like a hunter, and is conformationally correct for $500. I don't care what Anyone says, you can't.
                                        You're right -- that's fairly high. Sometimes you can find them for free, if you know the right people.
                                        According to the Mayan calendar, the world will not end this week. Please plan your life accordingly.

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                                        • #60
                                          Never mind.
                                          Last edited by Couture TB; Jan. 10, 2013, 12:55 PM.

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