• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

New York Times article - USEF and Humble

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • New York Times article - USEF and Humble

    This article has a bit more detail than what I had read in the past. I cannot vouch for the accuracy.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/28/us...anted=all&_r=1&

  • #2
    Sad indeed ... seems the solution is fairly simple (all injections to be signed off or handled by the designated show vets) BUT terribly unpopular, so unlikely that anything will change.

    I very much doubt that EM is the only injection-happy-owner ... what an appalling list of substances to be injected into supposedly healthy ponies

    Comment


    • #3
      NY times article

      I was shocked to see this, I guess I got it earlier in Europe.

      http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/28/us...=4&_r=0&ref=us

      Comment


      • #4
        Just a note--to simplify things, we have merged two threads that were started about this topic.

        Comment


        • #5
          It's A1 today - just read it online.

          Comment


          • #6
            Is it on the front page of the print version?!?

            Edited to add: It looks like it is indeed on the front page of the New York Times, above the fold. Yikes.

            I thought David Wright did a nice job on the interview for the video.

            It's so irksome that there are so many horsemen who take great care of their horses, follow the rules, and do right by the animals and the people, but those stories rarely make the news.

            Comment


            • #7
              I think this article in the NYT should make the USEF ( who let EM off) feel like idiots, because they certainly look like ones. Ug. Though I actually was glad to see the article, it made me as a horewoman cringe. It really hit on how the horses that are quiet are the high dollar winners. And drugging them was how it *can* be accomplished.

              Kudos to the mother who filed the protest. She may not have been the most experienced pony-mom (her words) but she certainly knew when there was a rat in the woodpile.
              Come to the dark side, we have cookies

              Comment


              • #8
                I wonder if she'll try to sue the NY Times.
                "Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can?" Sun Tzu, The Art of War
                Rainy
                Stash

                Comment


                • #9
                  I am glad to see this topic getting attention from the mainstream press. I think it is swept under the rug too much within the horse show world. I agree there are lots of people who do the right thing, but it is up to us to clean house before outside influences do so, and hunter/ jumper competitions end up with a black eye with regard to how it is viewed by the outside world. How can we ever hope to attract sponsors with that kind of press?

                  I have said multiple times that I think that penalties for positive drug tests need to hurt more, and hurt the person who is ultimately responsible for the welfare of the animal- the owner- in addition to hurting the trainer. 1) fine AND set down the owners for a month (i.e. no other horses owned by that person can show, similar to what the trainers get), and 2) fine AND set down the trainer and ALL trainers associated with that facility. I understand that will be painting with a broad brush, as one bad apple can affect an entire business, but it may make people think twice about policing themselves and their associates. I understand people will still look for the next big thing that doesn't test, so I think these changes need to be made along with changes to the judging rules where a little exuberance and personality on course are not punished in the judging.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The solution to this insanity lies within all of us as individuals. i know that social media has power. i am not advocating an all out assault on EM since frankly i think she is a jumped up pony mom who is only ineptly following trends which are escalating. "training wheels on a pony" ?

                    IF you are a "friend" of hers, go to the facebook pages of the farm and of elizabeth mandarino and unlike. its not hard one click. if you are not a "friend" go to her page and just look at the plethora of so called and REAL BNT who are on her list some of whom are good friends of mine. there are TOO MANY. if you ride with one of her "friends" , express to your trainer that you are concerned that they may support this lunatic and her abuse. this is NOT about a personal vendetta, or about the fact that mama mandarino has a nice kid. this is about taking that step. if you are on her page you are ENDORSING this woman. post this on your own media.

                    if the woman who saw humble fall could take the step to do SOMETHING you can do this. you don't have to hire an attorney. you don't have to have the presence of mind to take a photo of the drugs list. all you have to do is dump mandarino.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by M. Owen View Post
                      I have said multiple times that I think that penalties for positive drug tests need to hurt more, and hurt the person who is ultimately responsible for the welfare of the animal- the owner- in addition to hurting the trainer. 1) fine AND set down the owners for a month (i.e. no other horses owned by that person can show, similar to what the trainers get), and 2) fine AND set down the trainer and ALL trainers associated with that facility.
                      Totally agree with this. The current fines and suspensions are a JOKE. The owners and everyone else at these barns know their horses are being drugged to death, they don't care. And I think it should be for 3 months, one month is not enough.

                      I briefly leased a horse with a big hunter trainer, every horse was drugged, several were aced at home every single day! Huge amounts of dex was used before shows. The trainer has been suspended, it was treated as a joke and a nuisance. Hit the owners and everyone involved and make it hurt.
                      On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by M. Owen View Post
                        I am glad to see this topic getting attention from the mainstream press. I think it is swept under the rug too much within the horse show world. I agree there are lots of people who do the right thing, but it is up to us to clean house before outside influences do so, and hunter/ jumper competitions end up with a black eye with regard to how it is viewed by the outside world. How can we ever hope to attract sponsors with that kind of press?

                        I have said multiple times that I think that penalties for positive drug tests need to hurt more, and hurt the person who is ultimately responsible for the welfare of the animal- the owner- in addition to hurting the trainer. 1) fine AND set down the owners for a month (i.e. no other horses owned by that person can show, similar to what the trainers get), and 2) fine AND set down the trainer and ALL trainers associated with that facility. I understand that will be painting with a broad brush, as one bad apple can affect an entire business, but it may make people think twice about policing themselves and their associates. I understand people will still look for the next big thing that doesn't test, so I think these changes need to be made along with changes to the judging rules where a little exuberance and personality on course are not punished in the judging.
                        at one of the small show associations I belong to/show at, their policy is that if you have a horse test positive for a banned substance, every. single. horse/rider associated with that barn/trainer is disqualified for that year, and one year following. as a result, every single one of us has to be very careful if one of the horses needs a bute, etc, and we've been known to break out the calculators to figure how much bute a horse could get within the allowable time before the next show time. horses are tested at random, but every one of us is accountable for the actions of anyone on the team. this is a non rated show series.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I can't even begin to explain how THRILLED I am to see this on the front page of the NY Times! If USEF isn't going to recognize the real issues at hand and act upon them; then someone else is going to take action and draw even more attention to it. It's no secret that the, said-owner of the pony in this article, has a "shady" reputation in recent months: but it's about time this story gets some REAL press-time. Action needs to be taken and the USEF honestly looks like laughing stock right now; I'm glad I'm not a member at this point in time. Way to go NY Times for getting this out there

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thanks for the link to the story, and especially the video.
                            It's 2017. Do you know where your old horse is?

                            www.streamhorsetv.com -- website with horse show livestream listings and links.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Just wanted to comment, I think there are owners that don't have any idea their horses are being drugged, and parents who own horses their children ride/ compete that have no idea their child's horse is being drugged. Three months punishment is fine with me, and potentially disqualifying the horse for that year for any USEF sanctioned final events. The current punishments just aren't strong enough to act as a deterrent.

                              Also, just want to say that i think it is disheartening to see industry magazines published by our federation and its affiliates include cover photos of professionals that have been fined/ set down in the current year.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                dupe post, sorry

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  "Ms. Mandarino declined to be interviewed for this article, but her lawyer said in a statement that she had done nothing wrong, and that Humble had most likely died from an undiagnosed lung disease."

                                  Oh, dear.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by M. Owen View Post
                                    Just wanted to comment, I think there are owners that don't have any idea their horses are being drugged, and parents who own horses their children ride/ compete that have no idea their child's horse is being drugged. Three months punishment is fine with me, and potentially disqualifying the horse for that year for any USEF sanctioned final events. The current punishments just aren't strong enough to act as a deterrent.

                                    Also, just want to say that i think it is disheartening to see industry magazines published by our federation and its affiliates include cover photos of professionals that have been fined/ set down in the current year.
                                    Oh I have no doubt, especially some pony-moms. But that's no excuse for the behavior Maybe if the owners and riders are suspended along with the trainers it will cause clients to be more vigilant, and to actually LEAVE trainers that are drugging horses!
                                    On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Just watched the video. Really great video. I'm impressed. They didn't dumb it down and explained things well.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        PP, I completely agree with you, ignorance of the practice should not exonerate the owners. I think holding the owners responsible will make them aware of what is really happening to their horses and make people more conscious of who they are using as trainers.

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X