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New York Times article - USEF and Humble

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  • Share on Facebook.....and print and hand out copies at horse shows, tack shops and all horse related events.

    Comment


    • No one brought the daughter into it. Using a child as a shield to deflect ones wrong doings is disgusting.
      Come to the dark side, we have cookies

      Comment


      • Originally posted by War Admiral View Post
        Well, yeah, but let's take an informal poll here: hands up, how many of you have ever actually SEEN a USEF drug tester alive and in person, let alone had a horse tested? How many have had a horse tested more than once?

        I have only ever SEEN a USEF drug tester ONE time at ONE show. I'm 54, been riding/showing since age 6. (And remember, I'm multi-disciplinary, so I "get around" a LOT: breed shows, carriage driving shows, etc. as well as H/J.) So if you do the math, that's pretty close to 50 YEARS of USEF shows at which I never saw a tester and could, if so inclined, have cranked whatever I wanted into horsie.

        With the multi-day shows, if the USEF testers are on the show grounds on Day 1 you can bet the word gets out within a couple of hours, and those testers are going to be VERY hard pressed to find a positive for the remaining 10 days of the show.

        I'm in agreement that the fines and suspensions should HURT (and that the entry blank loophole needs to somehow get closed, stat). I also wonder about making the *shows* pay to have USEF drug testers on the grounds at all times. If USEF passed that AND simultaneously passed a rule that required all USEF show managers to freeze their fees (ALL fees not just drug testing) for a period of x years, and just made the presence of USEF drug testers part of the show manager's cost of doing business I wonder if that would help?
        I've been showing in NJ for 15 years and before last winter I saw a drug tester maybe once or twice. Since last winter they have been at every single show I've been to except 1 or 2, from AAs to random small C shows. I've been tested twice in the past year, once in April and once in September. So I don't know if they're sending them all to NJ or what, but they have definitely been here the past year.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Pennywell Bay View Post
          No one brought the daughter into it. Using a child as a shield to deflect ones wrong doings is disgusting.
          This was told to her numerous times the last time she tried to bring her daughter into it. What kind of mother does that, I wonder?

          Comment


          • That Times article is pretty good for a non horsey publication. Apparently she has filed a compliant against the USEF head counsel with the Ky State Bar Association (dismissed) and has numerous legal actions pending against many individuals and entities trying to "defame" her.
            When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

            The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by findeight View Post
              She has a long history of posting on here accusing others of all sorts of things-and naming them. Pretty much her MO and has been for years. I don't know if you can search her past posts from before May of 2012 with the new format change but...you can see the trend easily if you can.

              Lots of drama and hardly new.
              Yes, and what was the username she used to post under here years ago...ponymom something? That's worth a read too, if you have an afternoon to bang your head on your desk!

              I know people similar to this always reason that everyone else is just jealous or out to get them. Sadly, it's just never the case. Most people with any sense of reason or moral compass can smell a rat a mile away. Though, sometimes it seems to take a few years for the ship to finally start sinking and the rats start scrambling to shore.

              I also find that innocent parties or people falsely accused tend to stay fairly quiet and let the truth come out in the courts. Not a good sign when someone starts to ramble on, produce unrelated, trivial facts and start throwing others under the bus.
              www.DaventryEquestrian.com
              Home of Welsh Cob stallion Goldhills Brandysnap
              Also home to Daventry Equine Appraisals & Equine Expert Witness
              www.EquineAppraisers.com

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Carolinadreamin' View Post
                This was told to her numerous times the last time she tried to bring her daughter into it. What kind of mother does that, I wonder?
                Besides a guilty one?
                Come to the dark side, we have cookies

                Comment


                • This is not an isolated case, but certainly dramatic enough to be chronicled in the Times.
                  This is the problem. The big successful barn use drugs in their programs. How do you account for $500 or more per month on meds?
                  The less successful trainer afraid that their customers may leave emulate the winning ones and follow with the same practice. It trickles down to amateurs and pony moms wanting to play in the big leagues until they get caught. But the punishment for many is a three month suspension so is worth the punishment. Major riders, and trainers get suspended and have someone else bring their clients to the ring so no big loss. Some have adopted the practice of listing grooms as the trainers in their entry forms. Some of the "suspended" trainers go on to win awards six months after their punishment. So this is the example. You can do anything, because all you get is a $500 fine or a three month suspension. And then you come back to judge, and/or win awards.
                  And as for the judges listed in the article pretending that this is a problem that needs to be addressed is ironic since they are part of the problem. They reward the offenders with the best ribbons time after time.

                  Comment


                  • EM, please define the word drug for me as in "I don't drug my horses." What exactly would you call the drugs listed in plain sight on your board?
                    McDowell Racing Stables

                    Home Away From Home

                    Comment


                    • Not all barns do it. Some are honest with their clients about what the horse can or cannot do...but nobody wants to hear that Pookie is not suitable so they go to where a trainer will lie and overmedicate to keep them happy. Especially if said trainer sold them an overpriced, undertalented and/or unsound horse they can't ride.

                      Right now the owners do NOT get suspended, usually a wrist slap and 300 fine. Thats a problem.

                      I keep hearing rumors that some of the pending cases involving some huge names are going to result in major suspensions...still waiting for conformation on those rumors. But unless they ding the owners too, the ones who fund it all? It will go on.
                      When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                      The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                      Comment


                      • By declining to be interviewed for The NYT article, Ms. Mandarino forfeited any right to bitch and moan. But the article is far broader than her personal drama (although she seems bound and determined to keep the focus shining on her "breadth" of issues). Return to the early comments on this thread to consider the real challenges... (I do not consider hers to be anything more than an example of gross greed, stupidity, narcissism and manipulation...although it does raise questions of why anyone would trust an animal or child with such a "trainer.") The article and video were excellent on many levels: Most important, challenging the USEF to reconsider how subjective judging sectors of 'equestrian sport' should be structured, standardized and managed. This is huge business, both on the table and off of it. After years of feeling frustrated by wanting to trust that trainers had my daughter's and my animals' interests top of mind, I decided to stop questioning every line item on every bill, better educate myself, take ownership of my own entries (which also saved me tons of $ in unreported scratches because trainers were often too busy to worry about $50 here or there), sign as trainer (although I was NOT a trainer), control all meds and supplements purchased and given to the animals, and then train my daughter to take on these responsibilities in her later junior years. Was this popular? Heck no. Should every horse show parent do this? Of course not. But, they can seek out the most reputable trainers (and, man, if I Googled Ms. M now, I'd run in the other direction as quickly as possible), educate themselves and discuss their expectations openly with those trainers, and continue to pressure those governing the sport and managing the shows to create structures and environments that optimize the safety and well-being of the horses and riders and that discourage and penalize those who try to do otherwise.
                        Last edited by adhock; Dec. 29, 2012, 11:39 AM.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by War Admiral View Post
                          Well, yeah, but let's take an informal poll here: hands up, how many of you have ever actually SEEN a USEF drug tester alive and in person, let alone had a horse tested? How many have had a horse tested more than once?
                          I don't know how many horses I've had tested over the years and how many times I've seen testers at the shows when I haven't been tested. They are out there and do the best job they can given the monetary constraints. Once bought a horse in Ocala for a client, had it shipped to Gulfport to show on the winter circuit, and it go tested after the first class she showed it in. Great way for a pre-purchase drug test - too bad we'd already paid for one! Had another 1st year horse get tested at 4 shows back to back.

                          The biggest problem is the sheer number of shows compared to the number of testers available. And when a horse is chosen to test, that tester may be held up from 1/2 an hour up to 2 hours waiting for the horse to urinate so they can't be testing other horses during that time.

                          The USEF did a great presentation at the USHJA convention - it's too bad more weren't there to listen. I specifically stayed 2 extra days in Miami to go to that presentation. (And yes, I know not everyone has that luxury - I really didn't have the time or money either, but felt it was worth it.) The number of positive tests compared to the number tested is extremely low and most are for excess amounts of a legal drug. That's good to hear. However, all the anecdotal evidence about the misuse of drugs leads one to believe otherwise - good news - the USEF is on top of this and is working hard to develop tests for naturally occurring substances that may be misused. I think we need to give them the space to get this right.

                          Comment


                          • Just how does one make a pony sound enough in wind when "the pathologist stopped and called me and asked me if I knew about it because he had never seen lungs so diseased in an animal of that age."?

                            Seriously, the pony was schooled that day? The day before? Nobody heard anything funky in its diseased lungs, so diseased a pathologist stopped to make a call? How could you not know this pony has lungs that diseased?

                            Oh, and I think I might be tempted to sue someone who made personal communications public. Just sayin.

                            Comment


                            • Perhaps we and the entire industry might be better served by ignoring the personal comments and focusing instead on the implications for the sport and what can be done to control and regulate inappropriate actions.

                              he sport must acknowledge and regulate the inappropriate off label use of drugs for calming - dex and magnesium. Make the cost of inappropriate action actions MUCH higher than the benefits. Hold EVERYONE related to the horse accountable - Owner, Rider, Trainer, Groom.

                              Comment


                              • One might wonder if a regimen of 15 pharmaceuticals might be a factor in an unusual and unprecedented lung disease in a young pony.

                                The story is that the injection was Legend. I know of no legitimate reason to give Legend two hours before a class. Maybe that's what was in the syringe, but it doesn't make me feel any better about the situation.
                                If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

                                Comment


                                • Adhock, I hope that folks like you are the direction things will start heading. I doubt it, but I can hope. You are exactly what this industry needs more of.
                                  "Aye God, Woodrow..."

                                  Comment


                                  • The USEF is unable to enforce the rules it currently imposes. Perhaps the focus would be better put on enforcing the rules that exist rather than imposing additional rules. That can't be enforced.

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by poltroon View Post
                                      One might wonder if a regimen of 15 pharmaceuticals might be a factor in an unusual and unprecedented lung disease in a young pony.

                                      The story is that the injection was Legend. I know of no legitimate reason to give Legend two hours before a class. Maybe that's what was in the syringe, but it doesn't make me feel any better about the situation.
                                      Despite the novel that EM wrote to defend herself here, she never said what was in the injection that killed the pony. "I don't drug my horses" she said. OK, so what was in the syringe?

                                      My guess is that she has been warned that if she falsely claims the injection contained Legend or some other legitimate pharmaceutical, while also claiming she did not botch the injection process itself ("I thought I'd hit the carotid but I was wrong"), then the manufacturer of said pharmaceutical will come down on her head with a lawsuit that might finish her.

                                      Of course I am just speculating here.
                                      "Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can?" Sun Tzu, The Art of War
                                      Rainy
                                      Stash

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by gumshoe View Post
                                        The USEF is unable to enforce the rules it currently imposes. Perhaps the focus would be better put on enforcing the rules that exist rather than imposing additional rules. That can't be enforced.
                                        Maintaining and even enforcing what exists which as you state is not working - is not going to work. Changing the entire paradigm and the people in control of it has a much better chance of success.

                                        As already stated many of the abuses are NOT even able to be uncovered (dex/magenesium/over use of allowed drugs) under the existing rules

                                        Comment


                                        • Perhaps part of the problem is that TOO MANY drugs are allowed within limits. Why the need for TWO NSAIDs? Why is DEX allowed? Having said what I did in a previous post, I'm all for adopting FEI drug rules.

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