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New York Times article - USEF and Humble

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  • Originally posted by vineyridge View Post
    This, it has just occurred to me, is but another symptom of the USEF mentality that refuses to demand positive ID (chips and chip readers) of horses at shows. Same mentality that allows re-registration and different show records. Same mentality that doesn't require passports with medication records. Trainers don't want positive ID, so the USEF sits on its hands; trainers don't want an effective D & M program, so there isn't one. USHJA doesn't have any segment of its governance devoted to D & M issues. Trainers and show managers cherry pick judges and there is no USEF or USHJA discussion or program to prevent it. Apparently the show managers as well are just delighted with things as they are. They really don't have to do very much and don't, and their bottom lines benefit. If the show managers would stand up for change, and if the trainers would stand up for change, there would be change.
    The show managers would never stand up for change, why would they? The USEF (and AHSA) was created to protect horse show managers. Why else would the mileage rule still be in place? Horse shows are a monopoly. Managers make obscene amounts of money. Don't kid yourselves. The USEF is not here to promote fairness in competition or horsemanship or welfare of our equine partners. They want you to think they do, but (as we have all seen very clearly with this debacle), they really don't.

    The USEF only exists so that horse show managers can make as much money as possible without contest. The USEF is the biggest joke in the industry and are the root cause of this whole controversy. The next NYT article should be on the immoral and positively horrendous behavior of our NGB.
    ******
    "A good horse and a good rider are only so in mutual trust."
    -H.M.E.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Lord Helpus
      [edit]
      I saw that post. I did not see any sort of proof to back up that allegation.

      I don't know him, I don't know anything about him, but that's not the sort of accusation that should be thrown around if you can't back it up.

      I will say I've thought for years that the USEF website should have a place where anyone can search for a member's history of suspensions. Once it's in the magazine, or (more recently) on the website, it's a matter of public record. Why not make it possible to check and see if the trainer you just met has a clean record, or one minor error in the last twenty years, or regular appearances on the suspension list?
      Last edited by Moderator 1; Jan. 3, 2013, 03:01 PM.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by MHM View Post
        I saw that post. I did not see any sort of proof to back up that allegation.

        I don't know him, I don't know anything about him, but that's not the sort of accusation that should be thrown around if you can't back it up.

        I will say I've thought for years that the USEF website should have a place where anyone can search for a member's history of suspensions. Once it's in the magazine, or (more recently) on the website, it's a matter of public record. Why not make it possible to check and see if the trainer you just met has a clean record, or one minor error in the last twenty years, or regular appearances on the suspension list?
        ^ THIS!!! A million times, this!!
        "IT'S NOT THE MOUNTAIN WE CONQUER, BUT OURSELVES." SIR EDMUND HILLARYMember of the "Someone Special To Me Serves In The Military" Clique

        Comment


        • I think it would be a good idea to make it easier to reference a lifetime administrative action or penalty record, or at least the last 10 years or so. Then we could be sure and not have to speculate, guess or try to remember everything for the last 15+ years
          Last edited by findeight; Jan. 3, 2013, 03:21 PM. Reason: removed my reference to deleted material
          When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

          The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by amberhill View Post
            Ms. Pam Mahoney, Are you accusing me of posing as an attorney? You must know as an atty yourself that this is against the law. That is quite the accusation. I suggest you IMMEDIATELY retract the accusation unless you have proof to support your claim. You have been so advised.
            Nothing says "I love you" like a tractor. (Clydejumper)

            The reports states, “Elizabeth reported that she accidently put down this pony, ........, at the show.”

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Laurierace View Post
              Please everyone, report her posts to the mods and ask why in the hell she is allowed to post here after being banned. If they didn't back down from Jill Burnell's constant threats to sue (who has not been banned by the way) then there is no reason they should allow her to broadcast her BS on their bandwidth after being banned.
              there are so many contradictions in the posts I should think it is a good thing to allow
              Nothing says "I love you" like a tractor. (Clydejumper)

              The reports states, “Elizabeth reported that she accidently put down this pony, ........, at the show.”

              Comment


              • We've removed/edited several posts referencing allegations made without any substantiation against another professional, as we did with the Humble situation before there was confirmation re: the pony's death and some of the events surrounding it.

                Thanks,
                Mod 1

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Moderator 1 View Post
                  We've removed/edited several posts referencing allegations made without any substantiation against another professional, as we did with the Humble situation before there was confirmation re: the pony's death and some of the events surrounding it.

                  Thanks,
                  Mod 1
                  Thank you Mod1. I came on to delete my post and see that you have already done so. I understand now that I was referring to a post which was incorrect. I should have checked my sources before writing that post. Mea Culpa.
                  "He lives in a cocoon of solipsism"

                  Charles Krauthammer speaking about Trump

                  Comment


                  • I fail to understand why my post was removed. It didn't discuss or make any allegations against the trainer in question. It merely asked if the David Wright on the public NYTimes video was the same as David Q Wright in Tennessee. I can't see videos, you see.

                    What's wrong with my post?

                    Originally posted by Moderator 1 View Post
                    We've removed/edited several posts referencing allegations made without any substantiation against another professional, as we did with the Humble situation before there was confirmation re: the pony's death and some of the events surrounding it.

                    Thanks,
                    Mod 1
                    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                    Thread killer Extraordinaire

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by vineyridge View Post
                      I fail to understand why my post was removed. It didn't discuss or make any allegations against the trainer in question. It merely asked if the David Wright on the public NYTimes video was the same as David Q Wright in Tennessee. I can't see videos, you see.

                      What's wrong with my post?
                      It is the same David Wright; however, no one offered any proof of him ever being set down by USEF—just alleging that he had been.

                      I think Mr. Wright is an excellent horseman and was a great choice for the Times' video.

                      Comment


                      • I think the mods just removed the entire "line of thinking" and it's relatives .

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by vineyridge View Post
                          I fail to understand why my post was removed. It didn't discuss or make any allegations against the trainer in question. It merely asked if the David Wright on the public NYTimes video was the same as David Q Wright in Tennessee. I can't see videos, you see.

                          What's wrong with my post?
                          Yes it is the same David Wright.

                          Comment


                          • So you have a guy like David, a legitimate trainer, taking a stand for what is wrong with this sport and willing to stick his neck out and someone wants his head on a plate? Geez, this is a tough crowd.

                            There have been so many productive thoughts and ideas thrown out throughout this entire thread. We can only hope that someone, anyone, at the USEF takes some sort of notice.
                            "Every century a witch shall be born."

                            Comment


                            • EM has left NJ and returned to FL ! Wonder if she comes back for trial on the 11th ........

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by findeight View Post
                                That is exactly what they-USEF- do now. They get the winner and one at random as they exit the ring and sometimes will get you after your final jumping round as you exit the ring.

                                The issue is that if you are not in the ring, out of sight, out of mind. As in when they see the lab folk, some just last minute scratch and keep them in the barn. Far as I have seen, they have never random tested those last minute scratches...even ones that win over fences and fail to show up for the hack when those lab coats appear at the out gate even tho it cost them Champion. jeeesh, I remember one time there were 18 in my class, the coats showed up and 10 actually showed that particular jumping round-I did get a better ribbon then usual, and got tested.

                                ???
                                They do not test the winner and one other random horse/pony.
                                Sometimes they test all second place horses in a particular ring on a particular day. It's up to the testers.

                                And I've never been able to ID a tester by their attire. The last two times I had a horse tested a person who was dressed like me in jeans and a tee shirt walked over as we were leaving the ring and told me my horse was selected for testing.
                                In one case she followed me back to the van, in the other case she asked us to accompany her to her truck.

                                If a horse has been withdrawn from competition it can still be tested within a 24 hours period prior of the class it was entered in. Ponies entered ( but not actually showing) for the purpose of a measurement can be tested.

                                Many horses do not do the hack so nothing overtly suspicious there.
                                Fan of Sea Accounts

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by Salome View Post
                                  So you have a guy like David, a legitimate trainer, taking a stand for what is wrong with this sport and willing to stick his neck out and someone wants his head on a plate? Geez, this is a tough crowd.

                                  There have been so many productive thoughts and ideas thrown out throughout this entire thread. We can only hope that someone, anyone, at the USEF takes some sort of notice.
                                  he didn't really stick his neck out but just said what everyone expected him to say. The same thing Julie Winkle or GM parroted as if they didn't know what is going on. [edit]
                                  Last edited by Moderator 1; Jan. 3, 2013, 07:39 PM. Reason: per previous reminder

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by SGray View Post
                                    Originally Posted by amberhillMs. Pam Mahoney, Are you accusing me of posing as an attorney? You must know as an atty yourself that this is against the law. That is quite the accusation. I suggest you IMMEDIATELY retract the accusation unless you have proof to support your claim. You have been so advised.

                                    LOL. Yes, it was QUITE the post. I did not bother to tell her that it is NOT illegal to act as your own attorney. A lot of people do; it is called "In Pro Per".

                                    What IS illegal is putting yourself forward as an attorney, to another party who then relies on that status. It is called fraud.

                                    In this case the old adage applies:

                                    "Anyone who acts as their own attorney has a fool for a client."

                                    "He lives in a cocoon of solipsism"

                                    Charles Krauthammer speaking about Trump

                                    Comment


                                    • What I don't understand is why the protest system is set up the way it is for things like alleged drug violations.

                                      Granted it governs athlete doping in humans, but the US Anti-Doping Agency (which manages all Olympic and Olympic-Development athletes, even in off seasons ("out of competition testing")) has an Play Clean ANONYMOUS HOT LINE and even provides an anonymous report box online where you can submit your report in your pajamas at 2 AM if you'd like (http://www.usada.org/playclean).

                                      No need to pay a fee, no need to be publicly identified (or shamed!), etc.

                                      Yes, some may argue such a system promotes dubious reporting of others out of jealousy or for some competitive edge, but you'd think Olympic athletes would have the same problems (and they haven't), no?

                                      Why is USEF so afraid to set up an anonymous "Play Clean" hotline? Or online report submission box? Or fee-free reporting system? Or provide members with a drug reference phone line to consult on whether something is okay (or not) (http://www.usada.org/drugline/)? Or an ombudsman (http://www.usada.org/usoc-athlete-ombudsman/)?

                                      Do you realize how this looks to the outside? To report another competitor of a violation you have to PAY A FEE. Your name is public. Talk about a system that exists to protect the inner circle.

                                      (Then again, this is the same organization that gave a slap on the wrist to a top hunter trainer for drug infractions and then just put his picture on the cover of their organizational magazine (IN THE SAME YEAR). Did you forget? You can refresh your memory here: http://www.usef.org/documents/rules/...ePenalties.pdf

                                      So maybe that's all you need to know about this club of our's).

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by PINE TREE FARM SC View Post
                                        They do not test the winner and one other random horse/pony.
                                        Sometimes they test all second place horses in a particular ring on a particular day. It's up to the testers.

                                        And I've never been able to ID a tester by their attire. The last two times I had a horse tested a person who was dressed like me in jeans and a tee shirt walked over as we were leaving the ring and told me my horse was selected for testing.
                                        In one case she followed me back to the van, in the other case she asked us to accompany her to her truck.

                                        If a horse has been withdrawn from competition it can still be tested within a 24 hours period prior of the class it was entered in. Ponies entered ( but not actually showing) for the purpose of a measurement can be tested.

                                        Many horses do not do the hack so nothing overtly suspicious there.
                                        I can only speak to what I have observed or participated in by being tested. YMMV.

                                        Think I was first tested circa 1972 on the old AHSA Open circuits on the west coast when California required it far before the AHSA did squat.

                                        And, the last 4 or 5 times under USEF? They were obvious and pulled the winner and one at random from the flats and a couple at random after jumping a round. I am aware it is supposedly totally random but...

                                        I have never seen or heard of anything tested anywhere but walking out of the ring...and ammies and kids usually do hack if it makes a difference in Championship points and they have a halfway decent mover. Particularly when they were dressed and in the warm up talking to you when the testers showed up and their horse suddenly "tied up" or showed colic symptoms.

                                        I can imagine it would be impossible to do anything back in the barns with a late scratch when Pookie, Pokey and Fluffy are all 16.2 bay WBs with one sock, no brand and no back number at that point in time...with grooms who don't know what back number belongs to which horse. Or, darn, it just got sent out on trial.

                                        It's not so simple and many are ahead of the curve evading it. Some even sit on committees judging others for doing the same thing.
                                        When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                                        The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by vineyridge View Post
                                          Thank you, David O'Connor. And especially thank you for promoting a known user of Dr. Feelgoods in High Performance eventing.
                                          Vineyridge, could you PM me with that trainer's name?

                                          Comment

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