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New York Times article - USEF and Humble

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  • Originally posted by findeight View Post
    Most race trainers do not bill anything near what a kid Pony trainer on a major circuit does i.e 2 to 4k a MONTH not including extras....

    I don't see any difference at all.
    What I meant is that Walmart Shopper understands that race horses win money, providing an understandable temptation to do what you have to make them win.

    Not only are show horses not known for making fortunes for people, but kids in pigtails on ponies doesn't look like it has an obvious connection to money that would compel adults to drug animals to win.

    And by all rights, Walmart Shopper would be correct. Horsers know how much money is actually at stake, but the person outside our world forces us to take a step back and reexamine from a fresh prespective.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat

    Comment


    • Innocent question here. Why did all the other non hunter/jumpers disciplines - Saddlebreds, Morgans, etc. - who are under the USEF umbrella agree to be governed by an organization and a law strictly targeting Olympic "athletes?"

      I suspect an amendment to the USEF By-Laws is in the works.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Ruby G. Weber View Post
        Innocent question here. Why did all the other non hunter/jumpers disciplines - Saddlebreds, Morgans, etc. - who are under the USEF umbrella agree to be governed by an organization and a law strictly targeting Olympic "athletes?"

        I suspect an amendment to the USEF By-Laws is in the works.

        The IOC did this by requiring only 1 governing body for any olympic sport. Thus the AHSA/USET model collapsed. Thus, those disciplines were collateral damage.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by mvp View Post
          What I meant is that Walmart Shopper understands that race horses win money, providing an understandable temptation to do what you have to make them win.
          The critical difference between show horses and race horses is the Walmart shopper can BET on the race horses, and thus has a much greater interest in knowing that race horses compete on a level playing field.

          Granted, most Walmart shoppers these days are more likely to buy lottery tickets than bet on races, but that's how the race horses got that stringent drug control system in the first place.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Ruby G. Weber View Post
            Innocent question here. Why did all the other non hunter/jumpers disciplines - Saddlebreds, Morgans, etc. - who are under the USEF umbrella agree to be governed by an organization and a law strictly targeting Olympic "athletes?"

            I suspect an amendment to the USEF By-Laws is in the works.
            I don't believe the USEF can bylaw its way out of the Ted Stevens Act provisions for any of its competitions.

            The affiliate disciplines have the option to associate with USEF or not.

            The structure of an NGB is intended to go from entry level to Olympic games.
            If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

            Comment


            • Originally posted by vxf111 View Post
              None of those things were in the injection (allegedly) that was given properly (allegedly) moments before the pony dropped dead. It appears that what EM is claiming is that she injected Legend, properly, did not nick an artery, and the pony dropped dead from that moments later. Heck YES Bayer should know about that claim!
              But these drugs were being given to the pony - most at a twice daily basis - and I assume were in the pony's system at the time of death.
              The Equine Wellness and Nutrition FB Group - Come join us!!
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              • Originally posted by MHM View Post
                The critical difference between show horses and race horses is the Walmart shopper can BET on the race horses, and thus has a much greater interest in knowing that race horses compete on a level playing field.

                Granted, most Walmart shoppers these days are more likely to buy lottery tickets than bet on races, but that's how the race horses got that stringent drug control system in the first place.
                Great point. When adults stand to lose money, they demand regulation.

                Isn't that carved on a stone tablet somewhere? It seems a ubiquitous thing.

                ETA, as a Hunter Princess who sometimes is asked to explain this sport to Non-Horsers, I don't look forward to the post-NYT article questions I'll be asked. But I'll be curious, too, to see how this strikes those discovering our dark side for the first time. I'll let you guys now any impressions I get.
                The armchair saddler
                Politically Pro-Cat

                Comment


                • Originally posted by californianinkansas View Post
                  I am second-generation mexican-american. My great-grandparents were migrant farmworkers. My BS degree is in the social sciences. I'm saying that because I don't want this to come out wrong: If you really want to know what is happening at the big shows and in the big barns, take someone with you who speaks Spanish and go talk to the stable hands. They see everything and know exactly who is doing what to whom.
                  That would be interesting. Like a horsie version of "The Help."

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Ruby G. Weber View Post
                    Innocent question here. Why did all the other non hunter/jumpers disciplines - Saddlebreds, Morgans, etc. - who are under the USEF umbrella agree to be governed by an organization and a law strictly targeting Olympic "athletes?"

                    I suspect an amendment to the USEF By-Laws is in the works.
                    RGW, think back into the dusky recesses of near dead brain cells. The Alan Balch wars between USET and AHSA. This was essentially the heart of it - our very own fiscal (or IOC) cliff, and handled with about as much grace and competence! (I can fully understand the desire to not remember the gory details)
                    Your crazy is showing. You might want to tuck that back in.

                    Comment


                    • Maybe she should give one of her nine lawyers a few hours off (to save up the cash) and actually buy that photo of Humble that she has posted on her FB with the watermarks all over it.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Freebird! View Post
                        But these drugs were being given to the pony - most at a twice daily basis - and I assume were in the pony's system at the time of death.
                        The death is essentially being pinned on the injection of Legend done correctly and some exacerbation of a latent lung condition. It's not being blamed on the drug cocktail the pony lived on at Devon, nicking the artery, etc.

                        If I was Bayer, I'd sure as heck want to know about someone either unfairly maligning my product or an unexpected reaction that could threaten other users of my product. Either way, I'd want to know. And if Legend interacts with common drugs like Dex, Banamine, etc. in a fatal way-- I'd want to know that too! Because use of multiple common drugs is highly forseeable/not uncommon.
                        ~Veronica
                        "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
                        http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

                        Comment


                        • http://lifeinthefastlane.com/book/cr...ugs/magnesium/
                          Cross post by me.
                          Interesting reading if you go all the way to the end and see the most life threatening reaction to Mag.
                          For clarification, the web site is regarding critical care (in people).
                          Last edited by Pennywell Bay; Jan. 2, 2013, 03:24 PM.
                          Come to the dark side, we have cookies

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Pennywell Bay View Post
                            http://lifeinthefastlane.com/book/cr...ugs/magnesium/
                            Cross post by me.
                            Interesting reading if you go all the way to the end and see the most life threatening reaction to Mag.
                            For clarification, the web site is regarding critical care (in people).
                            and for ease of finding the part noted above, it is copied below:

                            Principal adverse reactions are related to the high plasma levels of magnesium and include flushing, sweating, hypotension, circulatory collapse, and cardiac and central nervous system depression. Respiratory depression is the most life-threatening effect.

                            Comment


                            • I read the report by the R&R vet, about how the Magnesium levels found, were inconclusive, and how although Banimine and Robaxin were found on Toxicology it didn't appear to be part of the cause of death. I still wonder though.....
                              The Equine Wellness and Nutrition FB Group - Come join us!!
                              https://www.facebook.com/groups/equinewellness/

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Freebird! View Post
                                I read the report by the R&R vet, about how the Magnesium levels found, were inconclusive, and how although Banimine and Robaxin were found on Toxicology it didn't appear to be part of the cause of death. I still wonder though.....
                                I don't read it quite the same way.
                                ~Veronica
                                "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
                                http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by Mayaty02 View Post
                                  and for ease of finding the part noted above, it is copied below:

                                  Principal adverse reactions are related to the high plasma levels of magnesium and include flushing, sweating, hypotension, circulatory collapse, and cardiac and central nervous system depression. Respiratory depression is the most life-threatening effect.
                                  Respiratory depression is due to the effects of Mag sulfate on the CNS, not effects on lung tissue.
                                  "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

                                  ...just settin' on the Group W bench.

                                  Comment


                                  • The kid Pony trainer needs to keep the gravy train on the track via basic training and board charges at the home barn when the Pony is gone, lessons at home, day care charges at shows, schooling charges at shows, prep fees at shows, class coaching fees at shows, set up fees, hauling fees et al and may be tempted to "enhance" the amount of time it can generate income from said charges by "helping" the Pony keep going when it shouldn't to generate all those bills to the owner.
                                    That's what makes your stomach churn.... this is the business model now even at local levels. Keep the machine going.

                                    The more I think about it, the more these people make me really sick. They make my skin crawl. I've been out of showing for sometime, and I wondered why as an adult, I never really wanted to be a part of it. And I feel like I know why now.

                                    The sad thing is there are good people. But yup, I feel the same way now about the hunters that I do about the walking horses and QH halter folks.... get the willies and feel bad for the horses that they have become so secondary.

                                    This crazy woman is not an anomaly. She just had bad luck.

                                    Comment


                                    • If it is depressing the respiratatory system, in an animal compromised by heaves, an infection whatever, could it lead to a fatal reaction, in theory?
                                      Come to the dark side, we have cookies

                                      Comment


                                      • Also wondering here..... In people, there are certain medications that can cause hypereosinophilia. Are there any vets would could comment on this?
                                        The Equine Wellness and Nutrition FB Group - Come join us!!
                                        https://www.facebook.com/groups/equinewellness/

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                                        • Originally posted by trubandloki View Post
                                          Maybe she should give one of her nine lawyers a few hours off (to save up the cash) and actually buy that photo of Humble that she has posted on her FB with the watermarks all over it.
                                          That has been bugging me!!!

                                          Comment

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