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New York Times article - USEF and Humble

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  • One of the pages posted said the necropsy was required by insurance.

    Originally posted by mvp View Post
    Not if she could merely collect on the mortality claim for the insured pony. Why spend a fortune suing Big Pharma when you can collect on an insurance policy instead with greater speed and less effort?

    Above, Mandarino does mention an insurance company. Someone else has asked the right question:

    Was that claim paid?

    But others matter as well: Did Mandarino submit a claim? Did the insurance company require a copy of the necropsy report or ask for any particular findings?

    Comment


    • No I did not but have followed all the 30 plus pages of this plus so many other trainwrecks, Pony Final debacle, etc.....USEF does what it can not to get its hands dirty, it NEVER does the best it can......please post what you think that makes it looks like it did the "best it could"....would love to see it and make me feel better about the money I pay them every year.....

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Limerick View Post
        Did you read the hearing transcript?
        My above reply was about this reply... will try and read transcirpt tomorrow....

        Comment


        • Originally posted by gumshoe View Post
          One of the pages posted said the necropsy was required by insurance.
          Yeah, that's what I remember, too. And in an ancient thread, I assumed that Mandarino, who owned Humble, did not submit a claim.
          The armchair saddler
          Politically Pro-Cat

          Comment


          • The Ted Stevens Act applies to any NGB that represents the USA in the Olympics and some aspects of it apply to the grassroots levels as well as to elite athletes. For example, one of the reasons it was written at all was because one of the governing bodies was restricting the rights of women to compete and interestingly, now that I think about it... given the latest shenanigans by the FEI about non-sanctioned events, it limits the ability of an NGB to deny eligibility for the Olympic type competitions over things like sponsorship.

            This is the USOC due process list:

            "The USOC recommends the following be included in such a hearing:
            • Notice of the specific charges or alleged violations in writing, and possible consequences if the charges are found to be true;
            • Reasonable time between receipt of the notice of charges and the hearing within which to prepare a defense;
            • The right to have the hearing conducted at such a time and place so as to make it practicable for the person charged to attend;
            • A hearing before a disinterested and impartial body of fact finders;
            • The right to be assisted in the presentation of one's case at the hearing, including the assistance of legal council, if desired;
            • The right to call witnesses and present oral and written evidence and argument;
            • The right to confront and cross-examine adverse witnesses;
            • The right to have a record made of the hearing if desired;
            • The burden of proof shall be on the proponent of the charge, which burden shall be at least a "preponderance of the evidence" unless the NGB requires or provides for a higher burden of proof;
            • A written decision, with reasons therefore, based solely on the evidence of record, handed down in a timely fashion;
            • Written notice of appeal procedures, if the decision is adverse to the person charged, and prompt and fair adjudication of the appeal.
            To me the real question about whether the Act would apply is less about pony hunters not being an international discipline, and more about Mandarino being an athlete. She's not, and I don't think the ponies count as athletes for the purposes of the Act either. I haven't reread the text recently, but believe it would only apply to riders, not trainers and owners.
            If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

            Comment


            • Originally posted by poltroon View Post
              The Ted Stevens Act applies to any NGB that represents the USA in the Olympics and some aspects of it apply to the grassroots levels as well as to elite athletes. For example, one of the reasons it was written at all was because one of the governing bodies was restricting the rights of women to compete and interestingly, now that I think about it... given the latest shenanigans by the FEI about non-sanctioned events, it limits the ability of an NGB to deny eligibility for the Olympic type competitions over things like sponsorship.

              This is the USOC due process list:



              To me the real question about whether the Act would apply is less about pony hunters not being an international discipline, and more about Mandarino being an athlete. She's not, and I don't think the ponies count as athletes for the purposes of the Act either. I haven't reread the text recently, but believe it would only apply to riders, not trainers and owners.
              Nothing would be finer--- and more embarrassing-- than a body as august as the USOC having to step into fix the USEF's f-up because a pony to be ridden by a child was drugged to death.

              With horse racing, John Q. Public might be able to understand the financial incentive for drugging a money-making horse. But a kid's pony?

              You can't make this stuff up!
              The armchair saddler
              Politically Pro-Cat

              Comment


              • Do you think that this will do any difference ?:

                http://www.dressage-news.com/?p=19064

                Has Chrystine Tauber in any way been involved in working against drugging?

                Comment


                • Drug Testing of Horses in Pioneering Expansion to Training Ring in Germany

                  As earlier been described, Europe follows FEI rules and their "zerotolerance" policy when it comes to drugs. There are tests being performed at shows but now the germans has extended that into the training ring with funding and help from the German OC..

                  http://www.dressage-news.com/?p=19069
                  Last edited by LucyShow; Jan. 2, 2013, 05:45 AM.

                  Comment


                  • Trying to keep horses healthy - A movie about about equine locomotion

                    I found this video at a swedish website. The opposite approach, keep horses healthy and showing without drugging.

                    It´s a study Professor Lars Roepstorff doing concerning the horse biomechanic. Professor Lars Roepstorffs is really big here on trying to find better footing, better training methods and so on from a scientific perspective to make the horses healthy and happy.

                    It´s really interesting and I hope they will publish a series of videos when the study is finished! Right now there´s 2 videos published and in it´s in english :-)

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSk_K8ks-9s

                    Comment


                    • The Facts About USEF Protests & What USEF Members Should Know about the Ted Stevens Act and the USOC Rules and Regs for NGB's and the USOC's Due Process Checklist.

                      http://amberhillponies.com/Amber_Hil...ould_Know.html

                      The USOC is already involved in mediating a resolution between the USEF and AHF. The USOC was responsible for the USEF releases the transcripts that were fully paid for and being held against USEF Rules and Regs and responsible for the release of the rulings.
                      Elizabeth Mandarino
                      www.amberhillponies.com
                      cell 908.397.0977

                      Comment


                      • I found this information on the BayerDVM website pertaining to Legend:

                        ADVERSE REACTIONS:
                        No local or systemic side effects were observed in the Legend Injectable Solution clinical field trials with either intravenous or intra-articular injections.
                        Post-Approval Experience: While all adverse reactions are not reported, the following adverse reactions are based on voluntary post-approval reporting for Legend Injectable Solution:
                        Following intravenous use: Occasional depression, lethargy, and fever.
                        Following intra-articular (Legend Injectable Solution - 2 mL only) use: lameness, joint effusion, joint or injection site swelling, and joint pain.
                        For medical emergencies or to report adverse reactions, call 1-800-422-9874.

                        I intend to contact Bayer and speak to them about the sudden death of a pony following a routine injection of their product.
                        "Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can?" Sun Tzu, The Art of War
                        Rainy
                        Stash

                        Comment


                        • You are being sarcastic....right?
                          The Equine Wellness and Nutrition FB Group - Come join us!!
                          https://www.facebook.com/groups/equinewellness/

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Freebird! View Post
                            You are being sarcastic....right?
                            Don't you think Bayer would be interested in knowing that an animal died immediately after the reported administration of Legend?
                            "Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can?" Sun Tzu, The Art of War
                            Rainy
                            Stash

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by 2bayboys View Post
                              Don't you think Bayer would be interested in knowing that an animal died immediately after the reported administration of Legend?
                              I think Bayer would.
                              ~Veronica
                              "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
                              http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

                              Comment


                              • Hmmm....true. In that case, maybe we should be contacting the makers of Robaxon, Dex and Baninime?
                                The Equine Wellness and Nutrition FB Group - Come join us!!
                                https://www.facebook.com/groups/equinewellness/

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by Freebird! View Post
                                  Hmmm....true. In that case, maybe we should be contacting the makers of Robaxon, Dex and Baninime?

                                  None of those things were in the injection (allegedly) that was given properly (allegedly) moments before the pony dropped dead. It appears that what EM is claiming is that she injected Legend, properly, did not nick an artery, and the pony dropped dead from that moments later. Heck YES Bayer should know about that claim!
                                  ~Veronica
                                  "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
                                  http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by mvp View Post

                                    With horse racing, John Q. Public might be able to understand the financial incentive for drugging a money-making horse. But a kid's pony?
                                    Most race trainers do not bill anything near what a kid Pony trainer on a major circuit does i.e 2 to 4k a MONTH not including extras. Race trainers depend on a percentage of anything the horse wins and may be tempted to "enhance" it's chances or giving it "help" to keep going when it shouldn't to generate those dollars.

                                    The kid Pony trainer needs to keep the gravy train on the track via basic training and board charges at the home barn when the Pony is gone, lessons at home, day care charges at shows, schooling charges at shows, prep fees at shows, class coaching fees at shows, set up fees, hauling fees et al and may be tempted to "enhance" the amount of time it can generate income from said charges by "helping" the Pony keep going when it shouldn't to generate all those bills to the owner.

                                    I don't see any difference at all.
                                    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                                    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                                    Comment


                                    • Well there is no syringe with traces of Legend, the groom who reportedly either witnessed or actually gave the injection has disappeared and the necropsy was too late for any meaningful blood toxicology...even if Legend was detectable since it's not really a drug.

                                      But they are certainly being trashed publically as a possible trigger in the Pony's massive allergic reaction and dropping dead. Many will read it on the net and assume this really reliable product is actually unsafe and not use it. And tell their friends. All because of what EM personally has said on the net.

                                      Liable suit? Her lawyers need more work.
                                      When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                                      The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by LucyShow View Post
                                        Do you think that this will do any difference ?:

                                        http://www.dressage-news.com/?p=19064

                                        Has Chrystine Tauber in any way been involved in working against drugging?
                                        Don't know, but not impressed by her non-sequitur answer to a question about the success of the British team as funded by a public lottery. She discusses the causes of the USET's poor competition results, being careful to praise their performances along the way, and talking about things the need to rebuild.

                                        Yeah. And also, no reference to funding it all or the original question about how the Brits did that.

                                        Perhaps, OT and irrelevant, but I'd like to see a Top Official apply her brains or balls to answering a question asked, not evading it.
                                        The armchair saddler
                                        Politically Pro-Cat

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by vxf111 View Post
                                          I think Bayer would.
                                          And it would be useful to know what Bayer has to say.
                                          The armchair saddler
                                          Politically Pro-Cat

                                          Comment

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