• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

New York Times article - USEF and Humble

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by hntrjmprpro45 View Post
    I found it interesting that in the laboratory report it speculated that it could have possibly died from an "overwhelming allergic response to medications or environmental triggers to which the animal has become increasingly sensitive". Is it possible that the "15 separate drug treatments" given to the pony at that show (and likely previous shows) could have compromised the pony's health to that degree?....
    That list of medications he was taking is just sad. Poor Humble.

    Comment


    • [QUOTE=farfel;6753725]
      Diva Pup
      [QUOTE]


      Huh?
      When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

      The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Daventry View Post
        ...somewhere, a lawyer is banging their head on a desk repeatedly!

        Between this thread and the one in the Sport Horse Breeding forum about Jill Burnell, breeding something like Gerbils or Guinea Pigs looks more appealing every day! Oy!
        No, don't! Many show breeders (yep, believe it) of guinea pigs cull, ie., kill, the pigs that aren't up to their standards. Plus, it adds to the overpopulation of guinea pigs, resulting in many abandoned, starved, etc. Unlike Humble who was "accidentally" killed by his owner Elizabeth Mandarino, the extra pigs are killed on purpose.

        I am so worried about this new information on Legend (no "s" there, Elizabeth Mandarino, owner of the now dead pony Humble) since one of my horses received some injections of it in the past, given by our vet after surgery. If it contributed to Humble's death, it should be publicized and taken off the market! I am going to contact the company immediately and I suggest that all caring horse owners do the same!! It must be dangerous! Everyone needs to notify the company that manufactures and sells Legend about the fact that it contributed to the death of Humble......according to Elizabeth Mandarino.

        Comment


        • If Ponymom67 is EM and is banned, why don't the mods ban her recent SN as well? I know we don't want to spoil the train wreck but once you are banned you don't deserve to be here.
          McDowell Racing Stables

          Home Away From Home

          Comment


          • Perhaps EM is going to recieve an inquiry from the lawyers at the company that produces Legend? A product that has been in use for some time on thousands and thousands of horses without them dropping dead almost immediately.
            When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

            The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by findeight View Post
              Perhaps EM is going to recieve and inquiry from the lawyers at the drug company that produces Legend? A product that has been in use for some time on thousands and thousands of horses without them dropping dead almost immediately.
              Definitely. We all need to do a screen capture of her comments about the injection of Legend contributing to Humble's death and send those to the company that produces Legend.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Freebird! View Post
                And this was never noticed before? Really??

                Does anyone have any video of the pony competing?
                No he came to me very thin and was hospitalized once for a very high fever when he was younger. Other than that was healthy except for a runny nose here and there but we monitor for shipping fever closely after long trips.
                Elizabeth Mandarino
                www.amberhillponies.com
                cell 908.397.0977

                Comment


                • [QUOTE=findeight;6754011][QUOTE=farfel;6753725]
                  Diva Pup


                  Huh?
                  That was the name of her puppy mill operation.

                  Comment


                  • May as well throw whoever had Humble under the bus too...

                    Forget the boxed wine and popcorn, it's New Years Eve. Bubbly stuff and shrimp cocktail for me-anyone want to share while we wait for the inevitable lock?

                    I think threatening to sue any poster in disagreement is worthy of a brand new ban.

                    Oh, yeah, thanks Tha Ridge, a puppy mill was included in past threads under the old screen name. I couldn't remember the details.
                    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                    Comment


                    • Elizabeth Mandarino, I have a question for you.

                      Was it worth it? Was Humble's death an acceptable loss for all ponies you've injected over the years in order to win ribbons and make money?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by amberhill View Post
                        No he came to me very thin and was hospitalized once for a very high fever when he was younger. Other than that was healthy except for a runny nose here and there but we monitor for shipping fever closely after long trips.

                        Humble had an emerging lung disease and while the necropsy was being performed, the pathologist stopped and called me and asked me if I knew about it because he had never seen lungs so diseased in an animal of that age. He asked me questions regarding his health. I had noticed that Humble had been pawing in his stall the night before and was laying down when I arrived but he popped up when I called his name."

                        https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=469269009777612&id=104506 122920571


                        So...you take a pony that has been in obvious stress the night before, and not only show it, but medicate him because....he was very healthy? MmmmHmmm.
                        The Equine Wellness and Nutrition FB Group - Come join us!!
                        https://www.facebook.com/groups/equinewellness/

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Freebird! View Post
                          Humble had an emerging lung disease and while the necropsy was being performed, the pathologist stopped and called me and asked me if I knew about it because he had never seen lungs so diseased in an animal of that age. He asked me questions regarding his health. I had noticed that Humble had been pawing in his stall the night before and was laying down when I arrived but he popped up when I called his name."

                          https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=469269009777612&id=104506 122920571


                          So...you take a pony that has been in obvious stress the night before, and not only show it, but medicate him because....he was very healthy? MmmmHmmm.
                          According to the New Bolton necropsy, there was no evidence of disease in the lungs at gross necropsy, but only upon histo evaluation. So the pathologist would not have called during necropsy, if that was the case. Histo involves preserving, sectioning, staining and viewing the tissues under a microscope. No quick task.

                          Did the pathologist call during the necropsy, as stated? Someone is not being honest. Either New Bolton was not correct in their necropsy report, or the quote about the pathologist calling is a lie.
                          Come to the dark side, we have cookies

                          Comment


                          • No kidding Laurierace. I figure anyone using Carolina Gold after February 22 was not gifted in the SMRTs department (still, I do believe we have a few lucky contestants who will be winning an upcoming vacation, but I digress). But IV Mg was and still is a problem. A not testable problem.

                            Also any horse who spends a majority of time in stalls/on the road, possibly even tied up for braiding and/or eating out of an elevated hay net (and may or may not get some regular dex to help suppress symptoms) is a pretty good candidate for IAD.

                            50% of racehorses are thought to have IAD. One hears the average race horse has a passing familiarity with IV shots in general and Legends (sic) in particular. While race horses certainly die, IAD in less or more severe forms is rarely identified as the cause of death. Just a condition the animal had, that had nothing to do with cause of death.

                            Saying an animal has an underlying condition is not necessarily causality of death. It's like revealing the horse that died of colic had an underlying condition of IAD. OK... and? It was the enterolith that killed him, not the white blood cell count in his lungs and trachea. In that same horse identifying the enterolith as an underlying condition may be more causal especially if the damage to the digestive tract is directly related to that area. On the other hand, that horse could die of colic with no evidence of enteroliths being the cause. Maybe they would have killed him one day, but not this day. So to the extent that the necropsy report needs an informed eye to properly interpret it, I agree. I suspect that is exactly why it was not released. Because it would be pretty hard to defend the statement that the pony died due to an underlying lung disease (commonly referred to as IAD) if the report simply claimed no known cause of death and then just laid out underlying conditions (as a good report should) with no claim that they were related because if there is no known cause of death, it's pretty hard to connect the dots to an underlying condition.
                            Your crazy is showing. You might want to tuck that back in.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by amberhill View Post
                              Neither the USEF not the vets/pathologist thought the med list was excessive.
                              So, you're saying that someone at USEF told you "Actually, this list of meds is totally normal and acceptable."

                              And you're also stating that the vet pathologist saw that list of meds (even discounting the Legend and Adequan) and said "Oh yeah, that looks like what you'd give a normal, healthy, competing horse."

                              I'm not that dumb.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by amberhill View Post
                                No he came to me very thin and was hospitalized once for a very high fever when he was younger. Other than that was healthy except for a runny nose here and there but we monitor for shipping fever closely after long trips.
                                15 scheduled meds for a healthy pony? How much did you pay a vet to sign off on that and what the heck are your unhealthy ones on?????

                                What bothers me is thinking of the number of people reading this thread who believe the meds mentioned are a standard "healthy" horse show practice and no big deal. {{shudder}}
                                "Whether you think you can or think you can't, you are right." -Henry Ford

                                Comment


                                • DMK, I'm guessing that well-thought-out response will sail right through Ms. Mandarino's ears. It's becoming obvious that she doesn't know one end of a pony from the other.

                                  Comment


                                  • For the record, I never owned a puppy mill and anyone stating that is further defaming my name. I hope you have proof of your allegations. As for the other disgusting poster, I loved Humble like a child. For you to even say such a heinous comment shows what a person you are. My animals were and are cared for better than 99% of barns and I have professionals to attest to that. They are treated like pets and do not get thrown from show to show in tents like other animals on the circuit. The injections they receive are to preventatives so they do not need joint injections and when they need rest they get it. I own 43 horses and ponies and do not need to overuse them. The medications Humble received were not excessive and were well within usef medication guidelines. Devon expects you to ship in from Florida with hardly any rest period for the animals and banamine and robaxin were are humane given the distance they traveled and workload they were under. I have been more than forthcoming with all documents and information related to Humble. Defame me if you wish behind your anonymous screen names but as I have shown, they are not so anonymous.
                                    Elizabeth Mandarino
                                    www.amberhillponies.com
                                    cell 908.397.0977

                                    Comment


                                    • "...when they need rest they get it. I own 43 horses and ponies and do not need to overuse them."

                                      "
                                      Devon expects you to ship in from Florida with hardly any rest period for the animals and banamine and robaxin were are humane given the distance they traveled and workload they were under."
                                      The Equine Wellness and Nutrition FB Group - Come join us!!
                                      https://www.facebook.com/groups/equinewellness/

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by Kadenz View Post
                                        So, you're saying that someone at USEF told you "Actually, this list of meds is totally normal and acceptable."

                                        And you're also stating that the vet pathologist saw that list of meds (even discounting the Legend and Adequan) and said "Oh yeah, that looks like what you'd give a normal, healthy, competing horse."

                                        I'm not that dumb.
                                        The list of medications was in the final necropsy so yes the pathologist was aware of the meds he was given
                                        Elizabeth Mandarino
                                        www.amberhillponies.com
                                        cell 908.397.0977

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by Kadenz View Post
                                          So, you're saying that someone at USEF told you "Actually, this list of meds is totally normal and acceptable."

                                          And you're also stating that the vet pathologist saw that list of meds (even discounting the Legend and Adequan) and said "Oh yeah, that looks like what you'd give a normal, healthy, competing horse."

                                          I'm not that dumb.
                                          The list of medications was in the final necropsy so yes the pathologist was aware of the meds he was given
                                          Elizabeth Mandarino
                                          www.amberhillponies.com
                                          cell 908.397.0977

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X