• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

New York Times article - USEF and Humble

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by figure8 View Post
    I am wondering if Mrs. Mandarino would like to comment re: the drug list, especially concerning Cyrus. According to your website he is a ten year old equitation horse, and I was just wondering your reasoning for giving such a young horse legend, adequan, estrone, depo, banamine (x2), robaxin (x2), and dex (x2) all within a two day period. Thank you and happy new year.
    And, according to the list, Humble - a 9-year-old small pony - was getting all those medications except it was getting Banamine 4 times and Robaxin 3 times, plus Arquel, in a three-day period That's how they came up with the "15 separate drug treatments"

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Discobold View Post
      And, according to the list, Humble - a 9-year-old small pony - was getting all those medications except it was getting Banamine 4 times and Robaxin 3 times, plus Arquel, in a three-day period That's how they came up with the "15 separate drug treatments"
      Sounds like one sore Pony to me.Poor thing.

      Probably should let this lie but...wasn't their something about puppies in past train wrecks engineered by this poster under the old screen name??????
      When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

      The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

      Comment


      • Here's to hoping those 9 attorneys bleed you dry.
        The rider casts his heart over the fence,
        the horse jumps in pursuit of it.

        –Hans-Heinrich Isenbart

        Comment


        • Originally posted by findeight View Post
          Sounds like one sore Pony to me.Poor thing.

          Probably should let this lie but...wasn't their something about puppies in past train wrecks engineered by this poster under the old screen name??????
          Yup. Someone needs to dig that one up.

          Another question I have is when did EM make the switch from pony mom to trainer? Sorry, but I don't think watching your kid do the pony hunters for a few years imparts enough knowledge and wisdom to buy up 100 horses and start running your own barn. That's another issue here—in my experience, the good trainers (with years and years under their belt) don't need to give 15 injections every horse show. But if you don't know how train or ride, you just might need to.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by findeight View Post
            Probably should let this lie but...wasn't their something about puppies in past train wrecks engineered by this poster under the old screen name??????
            Diva Pup

            Comment


            • Originally posted by amberhill View Post
              Regarding the NY times.... here is the correspondence proving he had an agenda and did not report our statement or the truth for that matter

              -----Original Message-----
              From: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
              To: mccrad <mccrad@nytimes.com>
              Sent: Sat, Dec 29, 2012 12:31 pm
              Subject: [FWD: RE: Elizabeth Mandarino]

              Mr. McGraw,
              I am not in the office due to the holidays and do not have a full list of the inaccuracies and omissions contained in Mr. Bogdanich's article. Just to give you a flavor of Mr. Bogdanich's communications with me regarding the reporting of this story, I am forwarding you a series of emails with Mr. Bogdanich. These emails followed a phone conversation wherein I attempted to give Mr. Bogdanich information regarding the lack of credibility of his "sources," the identities of whom were obvious by the uneducated phrases and accusations he was parroting. I tried to explain that these "sources" were all defendants, potential defendants, or their counsel in a case pending in New Jersey and had underlying personal animus towards my client. I was told that he was "not interested in hearing about that stuff." At that point, it was clear that he had an agenda other than reporting accurately on what occurred at the Devon Horse Show and the subsequent actions taken by USEF.
              Most troubling is the fact that I sent to Mr. Bogdanich a prepared statement (see below) refuting Mr. Long's assertions that my client did not cooperate with the Federation. Unless I missed something in the article, and please correct me if I am wrong, the only "fact" reported was that Ms. Mandarino had refused to comply with the Federation's requests for documentation and information. Mr. Bogdanich had a prepared statement from me with an email from General Counsel of USEF confirming that statement and USEF's "misunderstanding," and he intentionally chose not to use it. I found his antagonistic manner unprofessional, and his reporting to lack integrity. It is also worth noting that one of the Jane Doe defendants in the pending litigation was posting on an unseemly anonymous gossip website as early as June 4, 2012 that someone "should get the NY Times reporter that did the racing article" to do an article on Humble. I am surprised that a publication of the NY Times' stature would allow itself to be used to advance personal agendas, but in my opinion that is what has happened. Had the article focused correctly on the drug use in our sport, and on the people who actually have been suspended or otherwise punished (as opposed to Ms. Mandarino who has never been charged by USEF with a medication infraction despite dozens of random tests on her horses and ponies), it might have had some credibility. I will be in touch to discuss this further but would ask that the statement I prepared below be published immediately by the NY Times as a follow-up to yesterday's story.
              Thank you,
              XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
              XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
              XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX


              -------- Original Message --------
              Subject: RE: Elizabeth Mandarino
              From: "Bogdanich, Walt" <waltbog@nytimes.com>
              Date: Thu, December 06, 2012 5:47 pm
              To: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

              XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
              I thought you said you were not going to communicate with me further?
              Since you have apparently changed your mind, please know that I remain open to discussing with you my request to interview Ms. Mandarino. Rest assured that I will be very careful in what I report.
              Thank you.
              Walt Bogdanich

              From:XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
              Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2012 5:32 PM
              To: Bogdanich, Walt
              Cc: Purdy, Matt
              Subject: RE: Elizabeth Mandarino

              Mr. Bogdanich,
              Once again you are making a knowing misstatement of fact. My client proposed to produce the necropsy and toxicology to the NY Times with restrictions on its use and dissemination, and you declined because you didn't want to adhere to the proposed restrictions. That is the full truthful statement on what happened and is evidenced by your own email. Anything other than that statement is false and misleading.
              And again, your statement that I "have decided to deny [my] client, Ms. Mandarino, the opportunity to present her side of the controversy" has no basis in fact and I have already brought that to your attention. If any of these untruths are published, we will seek any and all appropriate remedies.
              Thank you,


              XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
              XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
              XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX



              -------- Original Message --------
              Subject: RE: Elizabeth Mandarino
              From: "Bogdanich, Walt" <waltbog@nytimes.com>
              Date: Thu, December 06, 2012 5:00 pm
              To: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
              Cc: "Purdy, Matt" <purdy@nytimes.com>
              XXXXXXXXXXXXX
              You are incorrect. Your client DID offer me the necropsy and toxicology report. I’m sorry that you have decided to deny your client, Ms. Mandarino, the opportunity to present her side of this controversy. If you change your mind, please get in touch with me.
              Thank you.
              Walt Bogdanich
              212 556-5881

              From: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
              Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2012 3:54 PM
              To: Bogdanich, Walt
              Cc: Purdy, Matt
              Subject: RE: Elizabeth Mandarino

              Mr. Bogdanich,
              My client did not agree to give you the necropsy and toxicology, and you are aware of that based on the attached email. As is shown by your own email, it was offered to you with certain restrictions on use and dissemination because it is a private document. You declined to accept it with those restrictions. You should be aware that there was a lawyer other than myself present with Mr. Mandarino during your phone call last night. You should also be aware that your statement that I am refusing to allow Ms. Mandarino to grant an interview has no basis in fact.

              Based on your deceptive conduct, my client has decided that she will not communicate with you further, and I have decided that I will not communicate with you further.


              XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
              XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
              XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX






              -------- Original Message --------
              Subject: RE: Elizabeth Mandarino
              From: "Bogdanich, Walt" <waltbog@nytimes.com>
              Date: Thu, December 06, 2012 3:05 pm
              To: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
              XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
              Thank you for your email.
              Please send me the full and final necropsy report, plus toxicology. If you choose not to – even though your client had already agreed to send it to me – please state your reason for denying my request. Also please state your reason for not allowing your client, Ms. Mandarino, to grant me an interview.
              Please call me if you wish to discuss this further.
              Thank you.
              Walt Bogdanich
              212 556-5881

              From: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
              Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2012 2:41 PM
              To: Bogdanich, Walt
              Subject: Elizabeth Mandarino

              Mr. Bogdanich,
              In follow up to our conversation of last evening, please find the following on-the-record statement and an attached pdf of an email exchange with Sonja Keating of this morning showing the accuracy of this statement.

              Ms. Mandarino provided the Interim Client Report with the findings on necropsy as well as toxicology tests conducted by New Bolton to the United States Equestrian Federation on June 19, 2012 as part of a motion made pursuant to GR617, which allows the CEO or Executive Director to dismiss a protest if it is unsubstantiated. General Counsel for the Federation acknowledged receipt of the motion in an email, with the CEO copied, on June 27, 2012. The report provided was deemed “interim” because additional toxicology testing for over 1100 different substances was ordered. That testing was performed by the Pennsylvania Department of Agriculture, and the results were received by Ms. Mandarino on June 28, 2012. I forwarded those results on June 29, 2012 to both General Counsel for the Federation and the Secretary of the Hearing Committee. On November 26, 2012, General Counsel for USEF contacted me to request a copy of the Final Client Report from New Bolton, and I immediately provided it to her. The findings in the Final Client Report were identical to those in the Interim Client Report that had previously been provided to the Federation. All of these results were also provided directly by New Bolton to the mortality insurer that provided coverage for Amber Hill Farm. I trust that the NY Times will ascertain the accuracy of all factual statements it chooses to publish regarding this tragic event.

              Thank you,

              XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
              XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
              XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
              Didn't have time to read now, but 2 questions, did anyone say why Humble, or best guess why Humble dropped dead so quickly at that time, something acute happen? And why did it take so long to admit the injection was just legends? As there wa so much speculations in the begining that could ahve been put away? Thanks
              http://community.webshots.com/user/summitspringsfarm

              Comment


              • The Necropsy, Toxicology and accompany letters have been released as I have nothing to hide. To be clear, I am not on the defense as I am now the plaintiff... I have nothing to hide. The USEF did not join Williams in her protest nor bring their own charges up against me. They had that power and authority and declined to do so. You can find the reports and letters on my webpage.

                http://amberhillponies.com/Amber_Hil...oxicology.html
                Elizabeth Mandarino
                www.amberhillponies.com
                cell 908.397.0977

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Discobold View Post
                  And, according to the list, Humble - a 9-year-old small pony - was getting all those medications except it was getting Banamine 4 times and Robaxin 3 times, plus Arquel, in a three-day period That's how they came up with the "15 separate drug treatments"
                  This is probably what I found the most shocking of the whole saga. Even without receiving anything illegal and even with keeping within "allowed" limits per drug, I really wonder what kind of a toll it takes on the body to have THAT many substances (legal or not) injected very closely together and for a prolonged time (assuming that the list was a fairly "normal" routine for her ponies at shows).

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by amberhill View Post
                    To be clear, I am not on the defense...
                    You've heard of the Court of Public Opinion? Each and every time you post it's been, for good or bad (hint, they've mostly been to the bad), toward your defense. Why else would you post so much personal information as "evidence"?
                    "Whether you think you can or think you can't, you are right." -Henry Ford

                    Comment


                    • I think posting the results of necropsy is courageous. One question- if there was no evidence of disease of the lungs at gross necropsy, as stated by New Bolton, only seen by histo- how did the pathologist call the owner in mid necropsy? Histology can take some time, sectioning, staining etc.

                      [QUOTE=amberhill;6747015]

                      Humble had an emerging lung disease and while the necropsy was being performed, the pathologist stopped and called me and asked me if I knew about it because he had never seen lungs so diseased in an animal of that age. He asked me questions regarding his health. I had noticed that Humble had been pawing in his stall the night before and was laying down when I arrived but he popped up when I called his name.


                      >>QUOTE]

                      "No evidence of disease process evident at gross necropsy"
                      Come to the dark side, we have cookies

                      Comment


                      • I found it interesting that in the laboratory report it speculated that it could have possibly died from an "overwhelming allergic response to medications or environmental triggers to which the animal has become increasingly sensitive". Is it possible that the "15 separate drug treatments" given to the pony at that show (and likely previous shows) could have compromised the pony's health to that degree?....

                        Comment


                        • I am not a veterinarian, but I fail to see how a "lung condition" would cause a horse to suddenly begin convulsing and drop dead, without and prior signs of respiratory distress.

                          Would an injection inadvertently administered into the carotid show up on a necropsy?

                          Comment


                          • The arquel was an error.. Royal t gets arquel and if it was given it would have shown up on tox results. Neither the USEF not the vets/pathologist thought the med list was excessive. Legend and adequan are given by responsible performance pony owners.
                            Elizabeth Mandarino
                            www.amberhillponies.com
                            cell 908.397.0977

                            Comment


                            • The necropsy states the carotid was not involved. Read on. It was described to me as a massive allergic reaction similar to a shellfish allergy. He did have symptoms of lung disease in hindsight but they were not significant enough to have called a vet. Afterwards my Braider told me he had a strange cough at night.
                              Elizabeth Mandarino
                              www.amberhillponies.com
                              cell 908.397.0977

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by amberhill View Post
                                Legend and adequan are given by responsible performance pony owners.
                                Oh, that goes BEYOND the pale of stupidity. Without an appropriate diagnosis as to the need of chondroprotective agent or something to treat synovitis how can you even consider making such a ludicrous statement?

                                Again, you are displaying an amazing lack of horsemanship, thought and wisdom.

                                Comment


                                • Pigeon chess, anyone?

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by amberhill View Post
                                    The necropsy states the carotid was not involved. Read on. It was described to me as a massive allergic reaction similar to a shellfish allergy. He did have symptoms of lung disease in hindsight but they were not significant enough to have called a vet. Afterwards my Braider told me he had a strange cough at night.

                                    And this was never noticed before? Really??

                                    Does anyone have any video of the pony competing?
                                    The Equine Wellness and Nutrition FB Group - Come join us!!
                                    https://www.facebook.com/groups/equinewellness/

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by amberhill View Post
                                      The necropsy states the carotid was not involved. Read on. It was described to me as a massive allergic reaction similar to a shellfish allergy. He did have symptoms of lung disease in hindsight but they were not significant enough to have called a vet. Afterwards my Braider told me he had a strange cough at night.
                                      Ah, so you are releasing information. At the same time, this is a possible indication that the drug you did administer could have caused the incident.

                                      Comment


                                      • You need hip waders for this thread. I tried to help you help yourself. Add me to the list that hopes you attorneys bleed you dry.
                                        McDowell Racing Stables

                                        Home Away From Home

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by Freebird! View Post
                                          And this was never noticed before? Really??

                                          Does anyone have any video of the pony competing?
                                          Yes, it was a very nice pony. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gL5oTlVKo1o

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X