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Big changes in horse insurance

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  • #21
    I dumped GA and M&S after a claim was "going to be paid", got the procedure done (2500MRI) then AFTER the fact they said "oops, no we aren't paying" Gee thanks. Buh bye M&S and Great American! (After 20 or so YEARS.....)
    The thing about smart people, is they look like crazy people, to dumb people.

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    • #22
      Originally posted by SendenHorse View Post
      yes, Great American is doing the same thing. They are not doing ANY medical insurance at ANY price on horses less then 15K.

      I am switching to diamond state.
      Agreed. I have Great American through Blue Bridle and just got the notice. Interestingly, I was just thinking that *I* didn't think it was worth insuring my horse for colic surgery because her value isn't terribly high...guess I'm not the only one.

      However, they did give me a quote for $10,000 in "surgical" coverage that was less than the Major Medical I had previously had...I am curious what it would cover and whether it's worth it? Not sure if I can get mortality without any other coverage (I think not?)

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      • #23
        Originally posted by S1969 View Post

        However, they did give me a quote for $10,000 in "surgical" coverage that was less than the Major Medical I had previously had...I am curious what it would cover and whether it's worth it? Not sure if I can get mortality without any other coverage (I think not?)
        You can always get just mortality, but you usually cannot get the MM or that surgical without also carrying the mortality.

        Far as that 10k surgical? I have not read your policy but the one I had is kind of a rip off. Mine was a lifetime 10k cap, not per occurance. Lots of exclusions too, basically was for colic surgery but excluded most of the aftercare and any future colic issues should the surgery not exceed the 10k lifetime cap (unlikely). Seems to me it was very specific with the prior approval requirements-which is cumbersome to deal with when every second counts. Big deductable too.

        There are only a few underwriters left who actually carry the policy and claims. Tons of agents out there selling but only a few actual insurance products from those few companies.
        When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

        The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

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        • #24
          You guys having issues should really call Nicholson. I have 2 of mine covered and my MM limit is under 10k on the stallion, with an additional amount in colic coverage over and above the MM. The policy on the mare even covers stem cell, IRAP, etc at 100%... The horses are with two different companies because what each needed was different & priced differently at the companies. I have no problems at all with my providers or coverages! And if your agent didn't thoroughly cover your policy with you, you need a new agent...
          Not all who wander are lost.

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          • #25
            Originally posted by findeight View Post
            You can always get just mortality, but you usually cannot get the MM or that surgical without also carrying the mortality.

            Far as that 10k surgical? I have not read your policy but the one I had is kind of a rip off. Mine was a lifetime 10k cap, not per occurance. Lots of exclusions too, basically was for colic surgery but excluded most of the aftercare and any future colic issues should the surgery not exceed the 10k lifetime cap (unlikely). Seems to me it was very specific with the prior approval requirements-which is cumbersome to deal with when every second counts. Big deductable too.

            There are only a few underwriters left who actually carry the policy and claims. Tons of agents out there selling but only a few actual insurance products from those few companies.
            Thanks, I am planning call my agent too, of course, but am thinking that maybe dropping everything but mortality is my best option since my horses aren't very valuable and generally (knock on wood!) we don't have too many issues.

            I didn't think surgical would be very useful but didn't know what it covered. E.g. if it covered sutures, for example, it might be worth getting....but hard to say. I think I will try to get the mortality and then "self insure" for other stuff....put a little bit of that premium away every month in my secret "horse fund".

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            • #26
              Actually, that horse aged out of the surgical only on that particular policy when she hit her 17th birthday...and I did speak (rather strongly) to the agent (who missed that detail) and got a pro rated refund for the rest of the year. At 18 horse dropped off all coverage, now 23 and retired without ever having a claim.

              BTW, have noticed talk of claims coming back denied or only partially covered despite pre approval lately. Some from underwriters previously highly recommended so be careful and READ the actual policy...and get pre approvals in writing from the underwriting company who will cover it, not the agent.
              When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

              The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

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              • #27
                Originally posted by Kinsella View Post
                You guys having issues should really call Nicholson. I have 2 of mine covered and my MM limit is under 10k on the stallion, with an additional amount in colic coverage over and above the MM. The policy on the mare even covers stem cell, IRAP, etc at 100%... The horses are with two different companies because what each needed was different & priced differently at the companies. I have no problems at all with my providers or coverages! And if your agent didn't thoroughly cover your policy with you, you need a new agent...
                Who is your underwriter, and what is the value (mortality) of your horses? My agency is great, it's just that most underwriters don't offer many products for "lower value" horses (<$15,000). Great American *did* up until this year (my policy expires 1/8). Now they are limiting the products on horses below $15K, which, to be honest, makes sense.

                If your horses are valued at less than $15K, I'd be interested in knowing who underwrites your policy.

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by findeight View Post
                  You can always get just mortality, but you usually cannot get the MM or that surgical without also carrying the mortality.
                  s.
                  Not necessarily true. I couldn't get just mortality. It was required to buy MM...which is where the real premium lies for the carrier. The policy makes sense because without it you'd ncrease the number of people willing to put their horse down because of the mortality pay out...and it's a money losing deal for the carrier...even on low dollar horses.
                  Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
                  Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"

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                  • #29
                    Thats new then. I carried only mortality for years on mine. Only got the MM on the last one because she was on the road alot and co$t me considerably more then the others to purchase.
                    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      You can carry just mortality as that is what most people actually do... I have both of mine insured for 10k mortality with 10k major medical on the mare & the stallion 5k major medical with an additional 5k emergency colic surgery coverage. You can not do just major medical coverage. Mine are with AEIG and Markel. And I know it was cheaper for me to go through an independent agent than to go directly to the company.
                      Not all who wander are lost.

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                      • #31
                        As far as I know, the only underwriter that has made changes is Great American. Marshall & Sterling uses Great American. There are tons of other options. I left Great American in September and had many agents and underwriters to choose from. I decided to go with Blue Bridle, mostly because they're local.

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                        • #32
                          Who is the underwriter for Blue Bridle?

                          I had my little scuffle with Markel...and it's one of those I have heard (tho only one side) denying or reducing the amount paid for claims on long insured animals for owners doing hundreds of thousands in business with them over the years.
                          When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                          The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Originally posted by findeight View Post
                            Who is the underwriter for Blue Bridle?
                            I know they at least work with Great American, but would think that they would work with other companies too? I am planning to call after the holidays...

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Blue Bridle uses at least three underwriters. One is Great American. Two others are Chartis (American Home Insurance) and Diamond State (American Equine Insurance). People here use different names for the same underwriter, so it can get confusing The names in parentheses are the equine divisions of the parent company. I went through a learning curb back in September and am happy to share, but I deleted all my e-mails. I believe Broadstone uses the same underwriters as Blue Bridle. Either one will give you information that will allow you to compare and choose.

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                              • #35
                                Nicholson has been doing equine coverage for 30ish years and they've stopped using underwriters that weren't willing to play fair with their clients. They do a lot of high-end race horse business, and yet still treat the little clients with the same respect as the big ones. They will also go to bat for their clients against the underwriters if they feel something is unfair in regards to exclusions and/or claims.
                                Not all who wander are lost.

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by Kinsella View Post
                                  Nicholson has been doing equine coverage for 30ish years and they've stopped using underwriters that weren't willing to play fair with their clients. They do a lot of high-end race horse business, and yet still treat the little clients with the same respect as the big ones. They will also go to bat for their clients against the underwriters if they feel something is unfair in regards to exclusions and/or claims.
                                  Well, I would argue that all equine agents would do this, otherwise why would we use them. I have no issue with Great American and their policy change...I don't think it's unfair, it just doesn't apply to my horses anymore. I'll be curious to see what other underwriters will have policies that might apply to mine. I have a new mare that was very low-priced, but could be worth a lot more eventually...hard to know how to insure something like that.

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by S1969 View Post
                                    ... I have a new mare that was very low-priced, but could be worth a lot more eventually...hard to know how to insure something like that.
                                    Suggest you start low with sort of a salvage value. You can always add to that value if she improves and does something competition wise. You cannot just reduce the initial valuation if she is a bust though.

                                    Learned that the hard way as my good Hunter hit mid teens and dropped from USEF AA level 3' Adults to local 2'6". I could only drop the value by xx% so had the most overvalued 17 year old 2'6" local horse with iffy hocks in the world.
                                    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                                    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Just thought I would update in case anyone was researching insurance - according to my insurance agent, I *can* get Mortality only through Great American, or I can get Surgical (for much less than Major Medical used to be), but surgical is limited to procedures done under general anesthesia.

                                      Or, I can switch to American Home (Chartis) and get a slightly cheaper policy - Mortality + Major Medical, but the MM is capped at the value of the horse (more or less). So apparently for my mare valued at $6K, I can get $5K in MM, and for my new mare that only cost $3K, I can get $2500 in MM.

                                      Also an option is American Equine (AEIG) which for Mortality is 3.5% on a "non-jumping" horse, 3.6% on show hunter, 3.7% on show jumper, and 3.9% on eventing horse. Two possible policies for Major Medical are $10K in coverage for $425 and $15K for $525. Main difference in this one is that there is no payment plan available.

                                      Trying to decide on what is worthwhile at this point, but I was happy to find out that I do have some options.
                                      Last edited by S1969; Jan. 3, 2013, 12:54 PM.

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