• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.



Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

CLIENT wants me to start up a riding program, tips needed please

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • CLIENT wants me to start up a riding program, tips needed please

    Thanking everyone in advance. I will be negotiating all the terms of my employment soon and want to make sure I don' t leave one stone uncovered.
    She plans on buying a small pony to start children. I have one client that boards there now and I also teach the owners daughter.
    I hope to bring in more students and build the business , anything I teach on her pony is split 50/50 and I keep everything for my own students. Students who will trailer in to me , will pay her a ring fee.
    I also will be teaching on my own property and be building my own teaching business, close by. I had run a small teaching business in town until the farm I was leasing sold.
    Ok so any caveats? All help will be appreciated

  • #2
    Yeah, not what you want to hear though.

    Don't do it.

    I have had not one but two good friends who grew their businesses on a client owned farm. One spent 3 years building her training and lesson business at clients farm...and client went bankrupt and the property was siezed. She and her outside owner clients were literally locked out for days then had to scramble to find a place to keep the dozen or so horses-that ended up scattered to the winds.

    Another went almost 5 years and developed a nice mid level show barn also giving lessons. Client/farm owner suddenly decided they wanted out of the outside client board/train/lesson business. They gave 30 days notice to 8 or so outside clients to get out, terminated the lesson program and told friend her services were no longer required for their personal horses and it was best she ceased immediately and moved her personal horses ASAP.

    Neither one of these had any sense of trouble in the relationship and niether one of them ever recovered their businesses. One retired and the other...lost touch but heard she went back into an office job. Both also took a financial bath, had to dump horses to get out from under and both suffered ill will from their clients through no fault of their own.

    And...you bet both these trainers had business plans, lawyers and explicit contracts.

    In your case, I would spend more time developing your business on your own property and not put too much faith in dreams of bigger and better with that single client who does not even own a pony yet.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.


    • #3
      I'm another in the "Don't do it" category. When I saw this happen, the owner always had the pony in use during arranged lesson times. Trainer had to use her personal animals, and the owner STILL expected the 50%. When the trainer protested as the owner hadn't done anything in scheduling these lessons or providing the agreed-upon lesson animal, owner went and trash-talked her.
      Proud member of the Snort and Blow Clique


      • #4
        I am a third in "don't do it". These situations rarely work out long term. If you do, be sure to carry your own insurance. It is not cheap, but you really need it.
        “Be yourself; everyone else is already taken.”
        ¯ Oscar Wilde


        • #5
          Does your client know you would also plan on teaching on your own property? Would they be planning to buy more lesson horses, or just one pony? How busy do they want their facility to get? Do they have commercial insurance? How old is the daughter, and how ambitious?
          Freeing worms from cans everywhere!


          • Original Poster

            I do have insurance. Don't plan on having my own horses at that facility. Not worried about them going belly up. They do have a pony in mind that they would like. Ive taught the daughter for three years and she is extremely driven, and has the talent and resources to match. She is moving up to ss this year.
            I have yet to sit down with the owner to discuss the plan with her, we plan on meeting right after Christmas. In the three years I have been teaching her daughter , she has always been fair,ethical and generouswith me. She has a young gal as back up who she has worked with in the past who wants in. But she would rather have me even though Im sure the younger gal would cost much less to hire. And yes they already have commercial insurance and have me listed on their insurance. She has many friends that have children the same age that have already expressed an interest in coming to ride there.
            Ive taught for years now but always for myself, ive never worked for anyone else.
            I have created a list of things to cover when we meet, I was just hoping for any kind of input, I don't want to forget anything when we enter into negotiations. Thanks so much, I hate hearing the stories of what can and does happen like findeights friend. But best to be forewarned


            • #7
              Man, I'd love to be encouraging but I can feel this going to hell down the road. No matter how good the friendship/intentions. Why would your teach at her property if you have your own place to teach?


              • #8
                vestito, I wish you the best of luck in this endeavor and I hope it works out really well for you I can tell you that when you put your blood, sweat, and tears into a program you are building it can become a very personal business. There are some great things about working for someone else, but the problem lies when the view for the future of the program becomes different between you and the owner (or even the owner's significant other). For example, I would get in writing what you are responsible for (payment & hours/chores). Also, how large can you build the business at her location? What happens when clients begin hopping to your other location or vise versa? The owner could say that you have a conflict of interest in teaching at your own place so close by. These problem will rear their ugly head about 9-12 months into the business. Right now it is all fluffy & roses Just get it in writing, and make the contract is a yearly one (at least). We never know what the future holds, but just protect yourself & then build yourself a huge successful business!! Best of Luck & it sounds exciting!!
                Certified Spiritual Medium/ Animal Communicator


                • #9
                  Since you will have your own farm/horses as well as the business at the clients farm there is always the potential for accusations.

                  I'm not sure the age of the clients DD, but I'm guessing she's young if after 3 years she's just advancing to the SS. That tells me that she has not cleared the "teen hurdle." I define teen hurdle as the point when girls have to choose between horses and the lure of "boys, school sports, cars, malls etc." I've seen girls doing the Jr Hunters on the A's just walk away from it at that point. If that happens will client still be interested in a business, even if DD is no longer riding?

                  If you have your own farm and horses and are willing to travel as well to clients you are better to keep them clients, not partners. If THEY want to open their property to boarders and you pick up clients through them it would be fair to pay them a % of your lesson revenue for providing the venue, but it seems that when you have several clients and enter into an additional business relationship with one, you leave yourself open to problems.
                  F O.B
                  Resident racing historian ~~~ Re-riders Clique
                  Founder of the Mighty Thoroughbred Clique


                  • Original Poster

                    Thanks so much for your feedback Meliora, I have told her that I fully intend on building my own business that has been on hold for the past few years. I think, but Im not sure that she figures I won't get my ring finished to actually get the business up and running. Both of us know that she is building a very nice indoor which I will never be able to do. I still need to get a feel for just how large she wants to go with the business and just how much control she wants to have with it.
                    At one point she mentioned she wanted to be better than the largest barn in our area, not sure if she means a bigger program or just better quality or both. Again thanks for your time
                    @ nashfad, im very close to her and would love to be able to move my students to her facility, since I don't have an indoor. Luckily for me if it did indeed get ugly, I have enough room at home to move back.


                    • #11
                      If I were you, I would be her employee. She can pay you hourly, a salary, or a per lesson/ride fee, whatever you agree upon. That way you both pay taxes and she pays worker's comp in case you are injured, and you will also be insured through her farm insurance if you are an employee. It is also easier and more fair for you if things were to go south. You can still have your own business and clients at your place, too.
                      "A good horse and a good rider are only so in mutual trust."