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Fake Warmblood Brand?

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  • #21
    Originally posted by Jhorne89 View Post
    Speaking of brands, I once owned a mare who was simply branded "204" with no symbol, anyone ever see this?
    As above could have been in a ranch string, or broodmare band, an embryo-transfer herd or similar. While unusual on the East Coast, many states out West have brand laws that make it very difficult for you to move your horse around unless you can prove via brand and papers that you own them. If she was out there at any point, she may very well have been branded.

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    • #22
      Not to sidetrack the thread, but can a branding ever go bad enough to leave a huge scar, where no hair will grow? Just curious... Since most brands I see, the hair grows back over, even the bad ones.

      Also, are brands always placed in the same spot? Or do they vary by breed/country?
      Celtic Charisma (R.I.P) ~ http://flickr.com/photos/rockandracehorses/2387275281
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      • #23
        Sorry...double post
        Celtic Charisma (R.I.P) ~ http://flickr.com/photos/rockandracehorses/2387275281
        Proud owner of "The Intoxicated Moose!"
        "Hope is not an executable plan" ~ My Mom
        I love my Dublin-ator

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        • #24
          A lot of the European registries microchip instead of branding now. If you can figure out the brand and know the age, that could be useful in determining authenticity.
          Born under a rock and owned by beasts!

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          • #25
            Originally posted by Showjumper28 View Post
            Not to sidetrack the thread, but can a branding ever go bad enough to leave a huge scar, where no hair will grow?
            Yep. One of the lesson horses. Quarter horse/pony with a poorly done ranch brand. It's ugly.
            Born under a rock and owned by beasts!

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            • #26
              cute horse - but that is not a westfalen brand
              RoseLane Sportponies
              Golden State - 2012 Bundeschampion & 2014 USDF Horse of the Year
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              • #27
                Australia and NZ also brand their horses with ranch brands--could be from one of those countries, many south american polo ponies are also branded--though some countries tend to brand on the shoulder rather than the hip. Ive seen brands on the butt cheeks as well.
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                • Original Poster

                  #28
                  Hmm. I'll try to take a better photo! It looks so much like the West. brand, it's got the funky cupcake looking top of the brand and a W inside and a crest on the top with a little cross, but the brand just looked so small! I'm just trying to find out more about him mainly, I'd love to find out his true name, where he's from, etc

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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by goodpony View Post
                    Australia and NZ also brand their horses with ranch brands--could be from one of those countries, many south american polo ponies are also branded--though some countries tend to brand on the shoulder rather than the hip. Ive seen brands on the butt cheeks as well.
                    My friend had a nice looking mare boarded at her ranch that had a brand on her hip that looked like a saddle, and her butt cheek had a 3 on it. The owner was certain that the 3 meant she was trained to 3rd level and could not be convinced otherwise. I have always wondered about that mare.

                    OP, you can always reach the Westfalen Verband through email and see what they say about the picture.
                    A helmet saved my life.

                    2017 goal: learn to ride like TheHorseProblem, er, a barn rat!

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                    • #30
                      If you have a local brand inspector, I'd call them up. They know how to read brands, and could probably help you more than us. As a last resort, see whether some of these breed registries will let you send a picture to an expert from their registry and see if they can identify it.

                      Wetting the brand may make it more readable, and shaving it would probably let you know for sure what brand it is (if it is even a warmblood brand). Shaving is also a must if you choose to send pictures anywhere.

                      If there are no numbers attached to the brand, there isn't much information you can find on the horse without documentation. There are a whole lot of bay warmbloods out there, without numbers or a definitive foaling year and country or a micro-chip, I don't believe you can get anything. If he is a rescue, he probably does not have his retina scan in any sort of database, but if you can find a vet who can check, you can have him scanned for kicks and giggles.

                      If you can live with not knowing much about his history, and he is a great horse, then buy him. He's a gelding, so it's not like you could increase his value by proving his breeding or anything. If you do decide to buy him, go slowly and carefully with his training in case there are any underlying issues, but I wouldn't worry about it too much. Even with documentation, sometimes you are only able to find out the basics about a horse.

                      ETA: It will be very obvious whether or not the brand is faked if you go see the horse. When you run your hand over the brand, the skin under the hair should be rough, thickened, and scarred. The actual hair growing out of the brand will look a little different. If it is somehow faked, it will have been done with some combination of hair gel and make-up that will come off on your hand when you touch the horse. (When I bought my mare, the sellers covered some superficial scars on her legs with black grease paint. I have no idea why, they didn't affect her soundness, but whatever. I found out because when I ran my hands down her legs, they came away black. And when I took her home and gave her a bath, the scars showed up. I don't care, she's awesome.)
                      I hope everything works out for you!

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                      • #31
                        OP I have to agree with you that it is a Westphalian brand. When zoomed in it looks like other examples online. However, I did find this thread from a while ago: http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...my-Westphalian
                        in which people talk about a 2 digit number underneath the brand. Does your guy have this? He looks cute, but it is always fun to find out more about their history!

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                        • #32
                          all westfalens branded have a number below the brand. They stopped with the number in 2010.
                          Here is an branded papered westfalen horse brand photo

                          it has a wide W. The arch at the top has a cross on it. and the required number

                          http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x...Weekend003.jpg
                          RoseLane Sportponies
                          Golden State - 2012 Bundeschampion & 2014 USDF Horse of the Year
                          Golden West - 2014 & 2015 Bundeschampion Pony Stallion
                          Petit Marc Aurel- FEI Dressage Pony Stallion

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                          • #33
                            I'm bucking the trend and going with Westphalian. The "hat" on the top of the brand looks curved to me, whereas the Holsteiner "hat" is flat.
                            ~Kryswyn~ Always look on the bright side of life, de doo, de doo de doo de doo
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                            • #34
                              Originally posted by Bristol Bay View Post
                              My friend had a nice looking mare boarded at her ranch that had a brand on her hip that looked like a saddle, and her butt cheek had a 3 on it. The owner was certain that the 3 meant she was trained to 3rd level and could not be convinced otherwise. I have always wondered about that mare.

                              OP, you can always reach the Westfalen Verband through email and see what they say about the picture.


                              Argentinian? They brand on the butt cheeks, I think. Numbers.
                              ~Veronica
                              "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
                              http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

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                              • #35
                                Originally posted by Bristol Bay View Post
                                My friend had a nice looking mare boarded at her ranch that had a brand on her hip that looked like a saddle, and her butt cheek had a 3 on it. The owner was certain that the 3 meant she was trained to 3rd level and could not be convinced otherwise. I have always wondered about that mare.

                                OP, you can always reach the Westfalen Verband through email and see what they say about the picture.
                                The saddle brand is the brand for Silla Argentino. The number to the left of the tail refers to the year of birth, i.e., my mare has a 7 for 1997. There is often a number to the right of the tail as well. And possibly another brand from the breeder by the saddle brand.

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                                • #36
                                  Folks I am a Westfalen breeder and stand a Westfalen stallion. Unless there are 2 numbers below the brand it is not a Westfalen brand, period. All brand prior to 2010 had to have the number below. They didn't make brands without the number. It wasn't possible.
                                  RoseLane Sportponies
                                  Golden State - 2012 Bundeschampion & 2014 USDF Horse of the Year
                                  Golden West - 2014 & 2015 Bundeschampion Pony Stallion
                                  Petit Marc Aurel- FEI Dressage Pony Stallion

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                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by Jhorne89 View Post
                                    She was listed as a thoroughbred, big bodied, 16.2hh without lip tattoo. I was just always curious.
                                    Was it on her neck?

                                    There's a TB breeding operation near here that brands their horses on the necks.

                                    Or if the numbers were on her shoulder, may have been an Australian or NZ TB. They have a numbering system for ID instead of tattoos.
                                    "smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

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                                    • #38
                                      I'm in the "who cares?" dept.

                                      It's a gelding.
                                      A lovely looking gelding.


                                      You don't ride the brand dear, you ride the horse it's on. He looks quite nice from the photo.

                                      Don't worry about the brand, if there are no papers with the horse, it means NADA. Means nada anyway unless he is sound and suitable for what you want. Horse should be no more or less money unless you can prove lineage and even then, I'd buy what I was looking at on that day.

                                      Here's a little story for you. I was training Standardbreds for a very, very wealthy individual. A particular horse was not living up to his yearling purchase price and really, really needed to be a gelding so his mind would be on racing, not his Willy.

                                      Conversation went like this after the 20th time the horse went screaming around the racetrack with his Winkie out:

                                      Me: "We need to geld him"

                                      Owner: "But I paid 80K for him and his sire is MR Big DEAL!"

                                      Me: "Here's your problem. He doesn't know how much you paid for him and
                                      he never met his Daddy."

                                      And that is all you really need to know about buying a gelding.

                                      Really, buy him because you like him.

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                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by amandaw View Post
                                        The saddle brand is the brand for Silla Argentino. The number to the left of the tail refers to the year of birth, i.e., my mare has a 7 for 1997. There is often a number to the right of the tail as well. And possibly another brand from the breeder by the saddle brand.
                                        Mystery solved! Thank you. I'll have to ask my friend where the mare ended up. She was classy.
                                        A helmet saved my life.

                                        2017 goal: learn to ride like TheHorseProblem, er, a barn rat!

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                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by Bristol Bay View Post
                                          Mystery solved! Thank you. I'll have to ask my friend where the mare ended up. She was classy.
                                          Don't I get a cookie? C'mon it was pretty arcane knowledge
                                          ~Veronica
                                          "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
                                          http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

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