• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.



Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

One more The Economy and Horses thread ... affecting big time shows

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #21
    I'm selling everything that eats more than 2 qts of feed a day and wears shoes. Including children. But seriously, I just listed a bunch of stuff on craigslist because I'm too lazy to have a yard sale. You would not believe what people will buy cheap. I sold a broken riding mower, various power tools and implements, barely used toys, and other crap out of the garage and it went fast! Of course, I listed some horse items and have yet to get a nibble...
    Man plans. God laughs.


    • #22
      Anything I've lost this week is in longer term accounts. So that won't affect my spending for 20+ years.

      However, just because I haven't been immediately hit doesn't mean I'm not going to make cut backs. I have a good amount of savings, but I tend to build that up even more during economic downturns. I don't think I'm in immediate danger of losing my job, but you never know.

      So I am going to be thinking more about whether I really want to do each horse show. And no more hitting the vendor booths at the shows I do attend! If I have to freeze my credit cards in a block of ice, I'm going to avoid impulse shopping!


      • #23
        Originally posted by ef80 View Post
        A flight I took last year around Halloween to visit family cost me $375. Today, I can't find a flight between the same two airports for less than $710, most of them are running around $830.

        Exactly the price increases are ridiculous. People needing to fly for business or other obligations is quite a bit different than people choosing to fly for horseshowing.


        • #24
          Originally posted by Jersey Fresh View Post
          I disagree. I think those people who are living within their means will be fine and continue to be able to show. Its those horse people who live way beyond their means who will be affected by this.
          Well, you could have been a horse owner living within your means, garnering a steady paycheck from Lehman Bros. Here's betting you are affected by this. And when AIG gets chopped up and sold, that means lost jobs, and a shaky scared economy generally means hiring freezes across the board and cutting back in corporations (just like individuals plan to do), so again, just because you are living within your means doesn't mean you can continue to show (or otherwise spend on non-essentials), it just means if Really Bad Shit happens, you have a better chance of not being completely ruined by it. Or maybe not. A lot of people who do everything right and live within their means can still end up completely screwed.

          Right now I'm holding my breathe on some of the otherwise healthy service sector companies who do a lot of short and long term investment in what are traditionally safe investment portfolios as a key part of their profit strategy. I'm personally most intersted in how the insurance sector weathers this storm.

          However right now I've got a 16 year old show horse and I already decided to partially retire him (he's done a grand total of 3 shows this year and that may be it) and my other one is a yearling, so he has 2 years of relatively cheap showing on the line, so I guess it is a good time to sit back, hunker down, spend less and remind myself that all this month's 401k money is buying stock low, and buying low is good, right?
          Your crazy is showing. You might want to tuck that back in.


          • #25
            Originally posted by Jersey Fresh View Post
            I disagree. I think those people who are living within their means will be fine and continue to be able to show. Its those horse people who live way beyond their means who will be affected by this.
            I would think that the point is that for many people, their "means" will change. Especially if they worked for Leahman or AIG.

            chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).


            • #26
              Well I am in a panic state. My husband and I were making a very good income for our area. Then in June my hours were cut to part time, and in July I'm effectively out of a job. At first it was an ok ... this will be for the best - I can take this time to spend more time with our daughter.

              I'm loving being a stay at home mom and spending time with our horse farm. We realize now we have to sell a bunch of our horses to make it through the winter AND we have to place the rescues - we can't afford to be the do-gooders of the neighborhood.

              Now ... I'm panicking. My husband has gone to a vanpool to limit our fuel expenses. But this was a tight moral choice several months ago. Now, I'm not sure if we can even live on one income with all the increased costs.

              Lessons have been reduced to weekly pony club meetings (paid for thru the fundraiser) and maybe one outside lesson a month. Shows ... well we may be able to afford one schooling show a month.

              AND ... we still have tons of repairs to do after the floods here last year. The barn has been rebuilt, but needs to be painted, the bedroom floor and carpet still has to be replaced. Both porches have to be rebuilt completely, there are holes in them that we carefully step over and one of the supports is leaning. Savings went to do the required repairs we've already made so we could move back into the house.

              Never mind ... blah blah blah. Done whining. We really want this to work; I had previously been homeschooling while working full time and putting my daughter first is the priorities we want. So ... we're now going to have to give up all the horses except her competition horse ... assuming of course we can.


              • #27
                Have we ever had a period since the depression when so many white collar jobs were at risk? Here in Charlotte I work in Real Estate and know that a lot of the bankers - even at BoA and Wachovia - are a bit loath to commit to a new house due to the uncertainty. It seems like a lot of 6 figure jobs are ready to go poof. And when you look at the multiplier effect- wow. I think they said that every big time broker on Wall Street provided work for 3-4 service types- drivers, waiters, chefs etc.

                For so long it has been lower wage jobs being lost- and sadly- in boom times, they never recovered unless they got work in a new industry- they became a lot of the service industry reliant on the high wage earners.

                I don't know what the shows might look like- I'm thinking a pretty big chunk of people will no longer be showing. At all levels. Your super rich will always be out there. But people who actually relied on a paycheck (albeit a large one!) might pull back a lot- due to uncertainty.

                Although..... as I look at the real possibility of collecting unemployment soon, I might enjoy the extra time riding (not showing). I can see where someone who saved pretty well might find themselves unemployed and treat themselves to a winter at WEF. A lot of people losing jobs got paid really damn well, and worked too damn hard to spend much. A friend was saying that it isn't uncommon for some of the analysts to work their asses off for a few years, save, save and save, then quit and become ski bums for a while.

                I don't know- I try not to get freaked out. I like my job. Let's hope that all the new people BoA has acquired move to Charlotte, buy homes and keep me employed.


                • #28
                  Heck yes, it will impact the industry as a whole.

                  It will impact people across the spectrum of wealth. Many Wallstreeters will be out of their jobs and for the lucky survivors.....do you think thier firms are going to pony up the huge bonuses? Hell no. Even if the company did well, the powers that be will shrink the bonus pool....because they know they can under the assumption that the survivors are lucky to even have jobs and there is going to be plenty of Wallstreet talent to replace the people who complain.

                  People will spend less on horses, lessons and showing if it risks their financial stability. People need to live within their means and quit trying to show the world that you're something you're not. I'd heard of one family that used their home equity to pay for darling daughters excessive show schedule and six-figure horse....Again that was before this mess blew up this week. The excessive need to acquire more and more is what has this country in the toilet.

                  The one ray of sunshine in this might be that the local shows gets stronger. In my area, there were a lot of people who took to traveling far distances for "big shows" that were living on fumes and credit card debt AND that was BEFORE this mess started.


                  • #29
                    Oh, yeah, it's affecting me

                    I had to put my horse down very late last year, then had an injury that sidelined me until late July. So, my plan was to get going again, and begin looking for another horse in after the holidays. But now, I'm reconsidering. Given the price of hay, shavings, and everything else that contributes to a board bill, (and the fact that I don't own a place to keep a horse) I'm thinking I'm going to wait. Board everywhere is increasing so rapidly, so I'm thinking I'd rather half-lease something in the barn for a while, and wait and see what's going to happen. My job is secure, as is my home, but I'd like to keep it that way!
                    The truth is always in the middle.


                    • #30
                      We have not yet begun to see the ripple effect of all this. That takes some time. Think about all the people that were associated with the big investment banks and the other companies that are in deep trouble - their incomes came indirectly from those companies - florists, caterers, temp agencies, Xerox, computer companies, custodial help, limo and car companies, travel agents, hotels, etc. That business is now gone or if still there, greatly reduced.

                      And what about the non-profits that were supported by these corporate giants. Lehman had a foundation that I believe last year gave away over $30M. That is now gone. And the ones that are still afloat are not going to have a lot of extra cash to hand out.

                      I think we are going to see a lot of bankruptcies in the retail sector as well, now that the credit lines have been turned off. We have started to see it already to a small degree, but in another 6-9 months I predict the attorneys will have more work than they can do. This is not just a middle class issue.

                      And this will go well beyond Wall Street and NYC in my opinion.


                      • #31
                        I don't see this being any different then the dot.com burst or the S & L crisis. The economy will bounce back.


                        • #32
                          I am wondering about businesses and class sponsorships?


                          • #33
                            First of all, I feel the need to point out that middle class people cannot afford to send a horse to Florida for the circuit at all. A little gentle reminder of how lucky most of us are.

                            I think this will have some dramatic effects. A lot of people who last week had secure six figure jobs or who had six figures or more in investments just saw their world go poof.
                            If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket


                            • #34
                              Originally posted by Blinky View Post
                              I don't see this being any different then the dot.com burst or the S & L crisis. The economy will bounce back.
                              I see this as being different. This goes right to the core. This is people's homes and their way of life. As an above poster said, we haven't seen the half of it yet.

                              WaMu is a big employer in this area. They just put in a second building in downtown Seattle a couple of years ago. Our industry base is very deverse, but WaMu is a huge employer.

                              Horses are a true luxury item. There are some people that will maybe just go to less shows, but there are going to many people who scarifice in order to play in this sport who may not be able to keep their horse anymore at all.
                              The truth is always in the middle.


                              • #35
                                Friend of mine and I were talking today, she's one of the better-off clients in her barn and her showing normally shapes the majority of her barn's show season. In the past, if she and her daughter were the only ones that wanted to go to a particular show, the trainer would still go.

                                She had a sit-down yesterday from her trainer who told her that he wouldn't be able to do that for her anymore. Her options are to cheerlead and get more people to come along or she can haul herself and trainer-guy will make sure that one of his trainer-buddies who will be at those shows will take care of her and her daughter. They love the barn and trainer-guy so they're opting to simply relax and have a light-season.

                                Another friend is switching to Eventing - she hasn't had an event cost her more than $400. A week at a H/J show was running her $700-800.


                                • #36
                                  You would think that the horse shows would lower the stall fees and get rid of some other "hassle" fees to attract more customers. <sigh>
                                  "Common sense is so rare nowadays, it should be classified as a super power."-Craig Bear Laubscher


                                  • #37
                                    poltroon, a friend and I were talking about that sort of thing. We split it into the class of the "uber wealthy" and the "obscenely wealthy". The uber wealthy are more likely to go to WEF, and I'm guessing the uber wealthy might not be as impacted. The obscenely wealthy is more like the middle class of the top percentile if you will they can be found at HITS and Gulfport here on the east coast. I'm thinking more in that group might be scaling back a bit.

                                    Of course then there are the folks like me who have attended those shows and even done all of WEF here and there. But I'm in the minority in that I did it on a real shoestring and back before it got uber expensive.

                                    Blinky, I don't think anyone's saying that the economy won't bounce back, but that doesn't mean there still won't be a lot of pain until it does. I myself had a FUN time during the dot.com crisis, one I would not care to repeat. Ever. Now the S&L crisis technically got me out of a low paying racetrack job and ultimately sent me on my way to a higher paying gig (after I spent time doing FSLIC work shutting down S&Ls as a legal ass't).

                                    There's always winners and losers, but I have a feeling the tentacles of this particular incident are more pervasive than a sock puppet failure. Dot Coms made for good money but I don't think they were at the heart of so many long term "safe" investments quite like mortgage backed securities.
                                    Your crazy is showing. You might want to tuck that back in.


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by Nikki^ View Post
                                      You would think that the horse shows would lower the stall fees and get rid of some other "hassle" fees to attract more customers. <sigh>
                                      I think this is where the class sponsors and businesses come in. Prize money may come down and less sponsors. Those funds are needed to even have a big horse show. Less people showing will increase the costs to the exhibitor.


                                      • #39
                                        I'm not trying to lessen the situation. My point was that this happened to folks in the dot.com business. This happened to people effected by the S & l crisis. We had Black Monday in the 80's. The bubble always bursts eventually. I'm not saying stick your hand in the sand and spend, spend, spend..just that there is always an upturn after a down turn.

                                        Me-my husband works for the airlines so it's not like I don't watch the economy. We have cut back our spending. Drive older cars. Kept the small house vs going bigger. Shop at Kohls, etc.

                                        Back to HR I agree with the uber and obscenely wealthy catagories. I think even people in those catagries will cut back as their investments are making less money. The rich want to stay rich. The rest of us..we just go to less shows. Worse case scenario the horse goes to live in a small, backyard type barn for a while.


                                        • #40
                                          This is very different from the S&L crisis and the dot.com bust.

                                          The dot.com bust was a much smaller bubble that, for all practical purposes, was limited to the tech industry. Yes, some people lost their jobs and reality crept back into the market but it was a small blip.

                                          The current crisis is much broader and is making some fundamental changes into our financial systems, globally. Credit, the way we all known it, will likely never be so free flowing ever again. That is not a bad thing IMHO.

                                          The investment banking world as we know it, for all practical purposes, is gone. What will emerge is yet to be seen. This will impact how companies will become public companies, how companies will get capital, financing, etc. These implications will impact most everyone, directly or indirectly.

                                          The government (the taxpayer) is bailing out these companies and someone is going to have to pay for it - higher taxes (probably), higher fees to banks for FDIC insurance (this will be passed on to the consumer you can be sure), and increased regulation (we always end up paying more when this happens).

                                          You may not think this will impact you but try to go out and get a car loan. Try to find money for college, try to get a small business loan for your company. The world has changed overnight. It won't go back to business as usual.