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McClain Ward Article on COTH

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  • #41
    Originally posted by Infinite View Post
    There is a time and a place for everything and this is neither the time nor the place to give a thumbs down to an article noting McClain's accomplishments. I don't care what reasons or editorial interest in the how to approach the subject you claim to have. Time-Place...neither are available.
    Infinite, two different things: article about McLain's accomplishments or, article about McLain's accomplishment immediately after his father passed away.

    The first one it doesn't need to come up at all, of course, and it hasn't in the hundreds of articles about MW. The second one, it's part of the story whether or not you want it to be.

    Comment


    • #42
      I spent 30 seconds trying to splice somebody's words together. Of course I'm not the writer Molly Sarge is and don't claim to be, either.

      When Michael Jackson passed away the news was presented in two different ways. First were factual accounts of Jackson's life that included the weirder stuff we'd heard about him over the years. The other pieces were more heartfelt and detailed how Jackson helped the African and HIV/AIDS charities and so on.

      This is what I'm trying to say:

      Because this article was about "that triumph of human spirit over loss" no mention of Barney Ward's past was needed. We would have understood.

      Originally posted by PinkBoots View Post
      This thread should be closed.
      I don't think it's ever wrong to discuss the way content is presented. Remember the European horse shopping trip article? There was an interesting thread about that too. Maybe it's just me but the already-good online content seemed to suddenly improve from then on.
      Last edited by armchair_Quaterback; Nov. 5, 2012, 09:47 PM. Reason: Oops, spelling mistakes.

      Comment


      • #43
        There are major, major differences between discussing how the article was written and bashing both Mclain and Barney. This thread is, for the most part, the second.
        http://www.youtube.com/user/supershorty628
        Proudly blogging for The Chronicle of the Horse!

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        • Original Poster

          #44
          I NEVER bashed McLain, nor Barney. I just went after missing facts and that it was a disservice to the readers to not mention the facts if the author is going to allude to them. (And the fact that if they are going to go there, they need to make sure they get all the facts out there--and the reasons why.)
          "And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling." - Capt Reynolds "Firefly"

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          • #45
            Yeah Velvet you're entitled to your opinion like everyone else is, but dear God in Heaven, McLain lost his dad, period. By making a comment myself I am adding creedence to yours, not my intent, but ya know, these days if I read or witness bad behaviour, I am going to speak up or my silence condones it.
            Bethe Mounce
            Head Trainer, AmeriCan Romance Equestrian
            https://www.facebook.com/AmericanRomanceEquestrian
            Brentwood CA

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            • Original Poster

              #46
              I guess the take away from this is that people can not write the facts or fill in the details in articles and it's all okay. Then again, this current election is showing that it is the new norm in journalism.
              "And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling." - Capt Reynolds "Firefly"

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              • #47
                Originally posted by Velvet View Post
                I guess the take away from this is that people can not write the facts or fill in the details in articles and it's all okay. Then again, this current election is showing that it is the new norm in journalism.
                The "new norm" in journalism is to add a hyperlink to additional information that is pertinent to but a digression from the current topic. Ergo, the link to the obituary that clearly covered the topic in the second sentence of the article.
                Holy crap, how does Darwin keep missing you? ~Lauruffian

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                • #48
                  I sincerely hope that when you pass away that your crimes and offenses that you left behind aren't thrown in the face of your children's accomplishments at every turn.

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Velvet, you got 30 thumbs down on your first post starting this thread... doesn't it make you wonder if maybe - just maybe - you could be wrong and it simply wasn't an appropriate thing to post?

                    I'm not sure why you are comparing this with the elections, at least opinions are shared about 50/50 for the elections... you're 1 to 30 on this one, not the perfect place to start talking politics when you haven't convinced anybody.

                    Sorry, but I (and many other posters obviously) think it wasn't a smart move to start this thread. Just admitting it would seem like a more mature answer than continuing to fight. It's ok to be wrong sometimes...


                    https://www.facebook.com/VoltaireDesign

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Originally posted by armchair_Quaterback View Post
                      I don't think it's ever wrong to discuss the way content is presented. Remember the European horse shopping trip article? There was an interesting thread about that too. Maybe it's just me but the already-good online content seemed to suddenly improve from then on.
                      yup it was there http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...+shopping+trip


                      https://www.facebook.com/VoltaireDesign

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                      • #51
                        Originally posted by MILOUTE55 View Post
                        Velvet, you got 30 thumbs down on your first post starting this thread... doesn't it make you wonder if maybe - just maybe - you could be wrong and it simply wasn't an appropriate thing to post?

                        I'm not sure why you are comparing this with the elections, at least opinions are shared about 50/50 for the elections... you're 1 to 30 on this one, not the perfect place to start talking politics when you haven't convinced anybody.

                        Sorry, but I (and many other posters obviously) think it wasn't a smart move to start this thread. Just admitting it would seem like a more mature answer than continuing to fight. It's ok to be wrong sometimes...
                        Except that it is an open forum and she has the right to post whatever she wants...just as you have the right to disagree with it. frankly, I cant see what all the fuss is about. I never heard anyone say anything good about the guy until he died. I do remember several threads on a missing horse...a doppleganger horse, his involvment with the sandman, etc. Seriously, do a search.

                        Just sayin......
                        Save a life...be an organ donor! Visit www.Transplantbuddies.org

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                        • #52
                          Still not many people saying anything good about him, just that we could show a little class while McLain is grieving and not speak ill of the dead before his son's tears have dried.
                          Holy crap, how does Darwin keep missing you? ~Lauruffian

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                          • #53
                            Off topic from Barney Ward/McLain Ward/the article but on topic of the direction this thread is going... but I think it's a terrible, terrible thing to discourage someone from expression an opinion SIMPLY because it's a minority view. Everyone is entitled, within reasonable bounds, to express their opinion. It's one thing to critique someone for their manner of expression-- but to tell them that since it's 99 to 1 against their view, they shouldn't express it-- that's contrary to everything this country is founded on. Simply because you or others or even MOST people disagree does not render the opinion valueness nor worthy of being supressed. Let me remind you of some formerly minorty views-- equal rights and women's suffrage. It frightens me, in this day and age, that someone is being told to shut up (on election day no less) because they don't express the majority view. Absolutely frightening.
                            Last edited by vxf111; Nov. 6, 2012, 01:16 PM. Reason: Can I spell today? Answer. No.
                            ~Veronica
                            "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
                            http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

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                            • #54
                              Another reason I dislike the thumbs. "We shouldn't even talk about it -- don't you see that you have mostly thumbs down votes??" is never a phrase that should be heard around here.

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                Originally posted by vxf111 View Post
                                Off topic from Barney Ward/McLain Ward/the article but on topic of the direction this thread is going... but I think it's a terrible, terrible thing to discourage someone from expression an opinion SIMPLY because it's a minority view. Everyone is entitled, without reasonable bounds, to express their opinion. It's one thing to critique someone for their manner of expression-- but to tell them that since it's 99 to 1 against their view, they shouldn't express it-- that's contrary to everything this country is founded on. Simply because you or others or even MOST people disagree does not render the opinion valueness nor worthy of being supressed. Let me remind you of some formerly minorty views-- equal rights and women's suffrage. It frightens me, in this day and age, that someone is being told to shut up (on election day no less) because they don't express the majority view. Absolutely frightening.
                                sorry but I think it's also ok for me to be of the opinion that this thread shouldn't have been started in the first place.

                                I've never told the OP to shut up, I just think she is wrong and I express my own opinion. As you said, OP is free to answer and has been doing it regularly. It's a free discussion I believe and I'm glad to read OP's answer and try to understand her view as to why she chose to post this thread instead of another one.

                                Because let's face it, we all knew from the first post that the point was not to calmly discuss an editorial decision but to stir old crap and make sure the few young people not aware of Barney's past would learn about it!

                                It's true, many teenagers weren't aware of the story, it's been a while since it last came up and PV was named more than BW... Are those kids better off now that they read all the horror? Did they really have to know that this happened in their sport? Awful things are still happening today and will happen in the future; was it necessary to also show them horrible things that nobody can do anything about now?
                                It may be my stupid dreamer optimistic side, but I think we have to remember the best and forget or forgive the worst. Barney had things to teach, and helped many riders achieve their goals, starting by his own son... now these kids who were looking up to him for good reasons are probably doubting and having mixed feelings (for good reasons too, I grant you that) because of the horror they read after their curiosity was picked by this thread. I just think it sucks.
                                I for one wish I never knew about this whole thing.
                                Last edited by MILOUTE55; Nov. 6, 2012, 01:26 PM. Reason: spelling


                                https://www.facebook.com/VoltaireDesign

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                                • #56
                                  Originally posted by MILOUTE55 View Post
                                  sorry but I think it's also ok for me to be of the opinion that this thread shouldn't have been started in the first place.
                                  You don't catch the distinction. Telling her your opinion is one thing. Telling her she SHOULD NOT EXPRESS HERS because its UNPOPULAR is something entirely different.
                                  Originally posted by MILOUTE55 View Post
                                  Velvet, you got 30 thumbs down on your first post starting this thread... doesn't it make you wonder if maybe - just maybe - you could be wrong and it simply wasn't an appropriate thing to post?

                                  I'm not sure why you are comparing this with the elections, at least opinions are shared about 50/50 for the elections... you're 1 to 30 on this one, not the perfect place to start talking politics when you haven't convinced anybody.

                                  Sorry, but I (and many other posters obviously) think it wasn't a smart move to start this thread. Just admitting it would seem like a more mature answer than continuing to fight. It's ok to be wrong sometimes...


                                  In this post you do not simply state an opinion contrary to Velvet.

                                  First you tell Velvet that the thread shouldn't have been posted at all. It "wasn't [] appropriate."

                                  As justification why you cite the fact that 30 people didn't agree with Velvet's post.

                                  Then you try to goad Velvet into admitting it was a mistake to have posted at all.

                                  This is VERY DIFFERENT than simply posting an alternate view. That's pretty clearly suggesting that minority views be silenced.
                                  ~Veronica
                                  "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
                                  http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    Originally posted by MILOUTE55 View Post
                                    Because let's face it, we all knew from the first post that the point was not to calmly discuss an editorial decision but to stir old crap and make sure the few young people not aware of Barney's past would learn about it!

                                    It's true, many teenagers weren't aware of the story, it's been a while since it last came up and PV was named more than BW... Are those kids better off now that they read all the horror? Did they really have to know that this happened in their sport? Awful things are still happening today and will happen in the future; was it necessary to also show them horrible things that nobody can do anything about now?
                                    It may be my stupid dreamer optimistic side, but I think we have to remember the best and forget or forgive the worst. Barney had things to teach, and helped many riders achieve their goals, starting by his own son... now these kids who were looking up to him for good reasons are probably doubting and having mixed feelings (for good reasons too, I grant you that) because of the horror they read after their curiosity was picked by this thread. I just think it sucks.
                                    I for one wish I never knew about this whole thing.
                                    It is also possible that your view of the entire situation is colored by the fact that you used to be employed by a company who sponsored McLain Ward and therefore you had a financial incentive, in additional to whatever personal incentive you might have had, to promote only "good PR" about McLain? Knowing him personally also means that you're not exactly a neutral bystander when it comes to what is said on the internet about him.

                                    Not that there's anything wrong with defending your clients and/or friends... but it's helpful to step back and realize that you may not have a truly neutral view of events as a result.

                                    We have a saying, as well, in the US, about what happens to people who ignore history...
                                    ~Veronica
                                    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
                                    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      Well, vxf, I do NOT have any affiliation with Mclain or Barney. I rode in a clinic with Mclain once. That's it. I still think that posting a thread like this immediately after Barney's death is lacking class, and frankly, says something about some of the people on this thread as people.

                                      I have no problem with "minority opinions" or however you want to phrase it, but I do think that there's nothing wrong with expecting people to show a little human decency toward Mclain in a time that is hard for anyone who loved their parents.

                                      Regardless of what you think/thought of his father, there is no reason, no justification, to kick Mclain while he's down. That's just cruel. He is not his father, he had nothing to do with what Barney pled guilty to.

                                      There is a time and a place to discuss things like that, but in response to an article about an incredible win by Mclain while dealing with his father's passing is not appropriate (to me). Obviously it isn't to several other people as well.

                                      I can't believe this thread is still going, nor can I believe that so many people think it's okay. Flame all you want.
                                      http://www.youtube.com/user/supershorty628
                                      Proudly blogging for The Chronicle of the Horse!

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        Originally posted by supershorty628 View Post
                                        Well, vxf, I do NOT have any affiliation with Mclain or Barney. I rode in a clinic with Mclain once. That's it. I still think that posting a thread like this immediately after Barney's death is lacking class, and frankly, says something about some of the people on this thread as people.

                                        I have no problem with "minority opinions" or however you want to phrase it, but I do think that there's nothing wrong with expecting people to show a little human decency toward Mclain in a time that is hard for anyone who loved their parents.

                                        Regardless of what you think/thought of his father, there is no reason, no justification, to kick Mclain while he's down. That's just cruel. He is not his father, he had nothing to do with what Barney pled guilty to.

                                        There is a time and a place to discuss things like that, but in response to an article about an incredible win by Mclain while dealing with his father's passing is not appropriate (to me). Obviously it isn't to several other people as well.

                                        I can't believe this thread is still going, nor can I believe that so many people think it's okay. Flame all you want.
                                        But there's a difference between saying "this thread is in bad taste and here's why" and saying "because most of us disagree with you, you should keep your opinion to yourself." The first actually being part of/encouraging active discussion and the second stifling of speech.

                                        On a side note, I tend to think McLain isn't reading this thread or getting upset about what a bunch of "internet posters" think of his dad. And nothing's been said her that hasn't been said a million times before on other threads about the horse killers. So I have my doubts that McLain feels "kicked while he's down," to paraphrase.
                                        ~Veronica
                                        "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
                                        http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          MILOUTE55 said:

                                          a) many people disagree with you, this raises the possibility that perhaps you're wrong

                                          b) your view is the minority

                                          c) it wasn't a good idea to start the thread

                                          That's basically what everyone else said (it's in poor taste to talk about this, this should not have been brought up, etc), yet we are now focusing on her because she used more than 10 words to express her opinion.

                                          I'm sorry, what I took from her post was that she didn't agree and didn't think that this type of thread should have been started.

                                          You can be in the minority and be right, you can be in the minority and be wrong. You can argue that grass is purple.

                                          Sometimes it seems like people on this board just post to contradict one another, without having an legitimate cause.

                                          Most agree that targeting this article and making it about Barney's transgressions wasn't wise. If someone wants to discuss that sort of topic, they should perhaps create their own avenue instead of jumping on an article about McLain's success.

                                          I think the best thing is just let this thread die...

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