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  • Originally posted by Trixie View Post
    Spending $600-700 on any regular basis is out of the question.
    haha heck no! 600 bucks is ridiculous for me. I was lucky to hit I think maybe 3 A shows this whole summer and no schooling shows (that doesn't count the $300 in fuel to get there ).

    That's just how I save money... I know some people who fork out over 2k per show....how the heck! Even one 2-day schooling show ends up at about $200 for me (just entries,stalls, fees).... so I figured I'd bump it a lil more and get something OUT of the show competition wise.

    For not getting any prize money and MAYBE a 10cent ribbon, there has to be a better way to bring prices down, because YES people are priced out big time. I only did one week because I sold a saddle.... another because we sold some cattle, etc. I left MY horses at home for one too (only showed a client horse).

    But alas, I don't really have any ideas on how to fix the problem, so I can't whine too much... I just put on a sad face and stay home... where I can jump a 4' course against myself
    Kelli
    Horse Drawings!

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      After going through the Commentary/Amber Eyes thread, I went back and read my original post again. Not much has changed. If anything, the comments have just reinforced my feelings. However, watching Commentary jump in the Devon Derby are making me think that more and more cross discipline riding can help all disciplines.

      I do plan to show next year in my new discipline. It will be most interesting to see the differences.
      The truth is always in the middle.

      Comment


      • The way I look at it is if I'm not spending my money on horses, I will find something else to spend it on. You can't sit around and do nothing (or I can't anyway). You need to be smart about it, and have a back bone so you don't become someone's cash cow.

        Horse showing has become more expensive, because everything else in the world has become more expensive. You can't buy a bag of chips, chocolate bar and a bottle of pop for $0.25 any more can you?

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Thoroughbred1201 View Post
          But whining about the fact that you can’t afford the latest hunt coat is truly a first-world problem, and in the scheme of things it’s is pretty unimportant.
          Your whole post is a whine about a whole bunch of first world-problems.

          Not that I disagree with you. But you are complaining about the cost of something that is so completely frivolous in the grand scheme of things.

          We buy animals. For FUN! That is an unheard of concept in other parts of the world.

          Comment


          • OP - Your post was very well written and I agree with many, if not all, your point. I admit that I haven't read all eight pages yet - but I will - and I'm sure that other people have made great points.

            I've just entered the world of h/j showing, without a trust fund or wealthy sponsor, so I generally find posts like these interesting. But there is one thing I keep coming back to ... the state of the sport is the result of participants accepting it. Granted one person cannot make much a difference, but I can refuse to train at a barn that drugs everything with four legs. I can refuse to go to badly run shows - A or otherwise. I can refuse to buy a custom saddle (unless I actually need it), and, if I had children, I can refuse to be ridiculously indulgent. There are ways to make this sport reasonable. From the horse we buy to the shows we attend. We all need to do what makes us happy, and that includes taking some ownership in the state of things. If we all opt out when we don't like what's happening, then the "bad" parts of our sports end up taking over.

            Just my two cents.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Thoroughbred1201 View Post
              After going through the Commentary/Amber Eyes thread, I went back and read my original post again. Not much has changed. If anything, the comments have just reinforced my feelings. However, watching Commentary jump in the Devon Derby are making me think that more and more cross discipline riding can help all disciplines.

              I do plan to show next year in my new discipline. It will be most interesting to see the differences.
              With respect to switching disciplines:

              Sometimes I wonder if I am fooling myself about that being a great strategy. Am I perhaps just enjoying being a beginner again who isn't priced out yet? But sooner or later, I *will* become that client who can't or won't obediently pay. Sadly, this happened to me with a dressage trainer last year. I rode well enough. I didn't put up with enough shoddy business practices.

              I might be too much of a "hands on" amateur for any modern discipline/industry, not just a bad fit for one or another.
              The armchair saddler
              Politically Pro-Cat

              Comment


              • Originally posted by mvp View Post

                I might be too much of a "hands on" amateur for any modern discipline/industry, not just a bad fit for one or another.
                Eventing encourages hands on amateurs, almost to a fault! Maybe give that a go? You've already got a head start if you have done a dressage stint. That, plus your h/j background - heck, you are halfway there!

                Comment


                • I can't agree more!! Well done!!!!
                  Aefvue Farm Ft.Lauderdale

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    Originally posted by mvp View Post
                    With respect to switching disciplines:

                    Sometimes I wonder if I am fooling myself about that being a great strategy. Am I perhaps just enjoying being a beginner again who isn't priced out yet? But sooner or later, I *will* become that client who can't or won't obediently pay. Sadly, this happened to me with a dressage trainer last year. I rode well enough. I didn't put up with enough shoddy business practices.

                    I might be too much of a "hands on" amateur for any modern discipline/industry, not just a bad fit for one or another.
                    I do admit that being a student again is appealing, and I'm enjoying it throughly. And I think I really lucked out in the barn I chose in that it isn't a 'money' barn, and encourages hand on riders. So I do know what you're saying. We'll see what the future holds. Right now, I'm enjoying where I am.
                    The truth is always in the middle.

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      Originally posted by FineAlready View Post
                      Eventing encourages hands on amateurs, almost to a fault! Maybe give that a go? You've already got a head start if you have done a dressage stint. That, plus your h/j background - heck, you are halfway there!
                      No kidding. Everybody I've talked to who has gone into Eventing is loving it. It's certainly a far cry from the rough and ready events of 25 years ago. The technique and precision married to that 'go get 'em' spirit of 25 years ago are producing some really amazing riders these days.
                      The truth is always in the middle.

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        Originally posted by sammicat View Post
                        OP - Your post was very well written and I agree with many, if not all, your point. I admit that I haven't read all eight pages yet - but I will - and I'm sure that other people have made great points.

                        I've just entered the world of h/j showing, without a trust fund or wealthy sponsor, so I generally find posts like these interesting. But there is one thing I keep coming back to ... the state of the sport is the result of participants accepting it. Granted one person cannot make much a difference, but I can refuse to train at a barn that drugs everything with four legs. I can refuse to go to badly run shows - A or otherwise. I can refuse to buy a custom saddle (unless I actually need it), and, if I had children, I can refuse to be ridiculously indulgent. There are ways to make this sport reasonable. From the horse we buy to the shows we attend. We all need to do what makes us happy, and that includes taking some ownership in the state of things. If we all opt out when we don't like what's happening, then the "bad" parts of our sports end up taking over.

                        Just my two cents.

                        More power to you. This is exactly what the H/J world needs! However in regards to 'opting out', I spent 40 years in it. I'm tired now, LOL!
                        The truth is always in the middle.

                        Comment


                        • Eventing, with its three disciplines and results that are split by fractions of a penalty or a single pole down right up to the last horse running, remains a sport. It demands a sympathetic partnership between rider and horse because no horse is good at everything and it is long-term, correct training that builds their ability into something awesome. No rider can expect a perfect day, every day and because of the ups and downs, no single rider can ever be 'the best' just 'the best on the day'. People help each other and respect their horses. Money does talk, but not as loudly as it can in other equestrian disciplines. That is why I love eventing.
                          "Good young horses are bred, but good advanced horses are trained" Sam Griffiths

                          Comment


                          • Yep, I'm a hunter in an eventing barn, and I just love eventers. We are just on the same wavelength in terms of horse care, etc. I would probably try eventing myself, but my horse isn't suited to it (which is fine - I love him, and he's not going anywhere). Overall, though, I have found eventers to be welcoming and excellent horsemen.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Thoroughbred1201 View Post
                              No kidding. Everybody I've talked to who has gone into Eventing is loving it. It's certainly a far cry from the rough and ready events of 25 years ago. The technique and precision married to that 'go get 'em' spirit of 25 years ago are producing some really amazing riders these days.
                              That's encouraging.

                              I did event and field hunt as a high school/college kid. But didn't appreciate the git-r-done (at all costs) element. I wanted a peaceful, hunter round XC (but faster), or not at all.

                              Maybe there would be room for me in modern eventing if it has now increased the emphasis on training and technique.
                              The armchair saddler
                              Politically Pro-Cat

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by mvp View Post
                                I might be too much of a "hands on" amateur for any modern discipline/industry, not just a bad fit for one or another.

                                nah...you are just an educated consumer of their product/services. That is not something all "sellers" want to deal with. I ended a relationship with a BNT in eventing--I was not his type of owner he wanted and he was not what I wanted in a trainer. There were a lot of reasons for it. Doesn't mean I think he is a horrible trainer....he's not, or that you would be crazy to put a horse with him as an owner. But he wasn't the right fit for me and I wasn't the right fit for him. No skin off my nose if that is the business model he wants.....as for me, luckily there are many other top trainers/riders in the near area who are a fit for me and me for them.

                                You just haven't found the person you want to work with....and I would say that it isn't really a discipline thing (although it does seem to be an area thing--sometimes you are limited to your choices geographically)....it is just finding the right people...just like finding the right doctor or mechanic.
                                ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

                                Comment


                                • The sad thing is, is that this phenomenon is happining in other equine arenas as well.

                                  People are leaving AQHA in droves for other breeds, ranch horse shows, reining, hunters, etc. The cost for their shows rival that of the A circuit hunters and in most of the country the schooling shows are non-existent or not quality enough for people to progress through the levels. The Congress and World shows are priced at about 8-10K each.

                                  AQHA has shot itself in the foot by ridiculous decisions by their executive committes to benefit the upper tier of competitors. Their best decision being a leveling program that makes 90% of competitors "Novice". The Novice is now a revolving door and competitors only point out of it for a period of time then they can go back. It would be similar to a horse being eligible to go back to the greens if it didnt earn enough points in a three year period based on the number of points the top 10% of other greens earned.

                                  Unfortunatley this means that true novice people, and DIYers have no place to compete. The professional amateurs are sitting out and coming back with their well tuned horses and winning the novice divisions where they used to have to compete against other professional amateurs. This means they are coming in with their 50K plus horses, 20K plus saddles, BNTs, and custom made outfits and taking points and confidence from people who do not have those things or the experience. At least in the hunter world a fly-in client who rides sporadically at least has to put a course together. In AQHA they fly in and sit there while the finely tuned horse goes around the rail. And at least at the A shows you have a cross rails division for beginners to get their feet wet.

                                  AQHA also passed new rules governing the distance between shows held the same weekend. In some parts of the country its 500 miles. Meaning a show couldnt be held in your town if there was another one within a 500 mile radius. This is because shows are getting so small.

                                  If these rules arent enough the politics is overwhelming and if you know the players can pick the class winners before they even set foot in the pen.

                                  Its really a shame. The AQHA shows used to be so fun. It got too pricey and I, like you, can no longer justify the expense to even compete locally. AQHA doesnt do ribbons anymore at any of the local shows so you didnt even get one of those! I no longer enjoyed it and got out completely. I actually got into the All OTTB Shows here on the East Coast and am having a ton of fun. My horses are home, I ride them daily, have a relationship with them, haul myself and have found a sector of shows (so far) where everyone is doing the same. Its been very refreshing to me! Good Luck to you in your new venture

                                  Comment


                                  • It helps if one is located in an area with decent nonrated shows held on grounds that hold rate shows-a cheaper way to go.

                                    In my older age, eventing seems to present so many ways to get eliminated especially if one has gotten memory challenged ..... that is expensive way to spend the weekend too!

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      Originally posted by I Winglish AQHA View Post
                                      The sad thing is, is that this phenomenon is happining in other equine arenas as well.

                                      People are leaving AQHA in droves for other breeds, ranch horse shows, reining, hunters, etc.

                                      :snip:

                                      Unfortunatley this means that true novice people, and DIYers have no place to compete. The professional amateurs are sitting out and coming back with their well tuned horses and winning the novice divisions where they used to have to compete against other professional amateurs. This means they are coming in with their 50K plus horses, 20K plus saddles, BNTs, and custom made outfits and taking points and confidence from people who do not have those things or the experience. At least in the hunter world a fly-in client who rides sporadically at least has to put a course together. In AQHA they fly in and sit there while the finely tuned horse goes around the rail. And at least at the A shows you have a cross rails division for beginners to get their feet wet.

                                      AQHA also passed new rules governing the distance between shows held the same weekend. In some parts of the country its 500 miles. Meaning a show couldnt be held in your town if there was another one within a 500 mile radius. This is because shows are getting so small.

                                      If these rules arent enough the politics is overwhelming and if you know the players can pick the class winners before they even set foot in the pen.
                                      :snip:
                                      Wow, I had no idea. The few people I know in the AQHA world swear by it. It's almost like a cult. Paints as well.

                                      As for the mileage rule, I know that's an issue in the H/J world as well. Not so much up here in the PNW, but in other areas. Up here, the AQHA shows seem to be well attended.

                                      There are problems in every discipline, no doubt. But I think anything that limits accessibility is incredibly self-destructive to that area of the sport, and ultimately will set them up for decline.

                                      Glad your having fun with the TBs. I still love TBs. Always a soft spot in my heart!
                                      The truth is always in the middle.

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        Originally posted by omare View Post
                                        It helps if one is located in an area with decent nonrated shows held on grounds that hold rate shows-a cheaper way to go.

                                        In my older age, eventing seems to present so many ways to get eliminated especially if one has gotten memory challenged ..... that is expensive way to spend the weekend too!
                                        Yes, well, you notice I'M not eventing, LOL!
                                        The truth is always in the middle.

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by findeight View Post
                                          There is a huge difference between being made to feel like an ATM and receiving value for services you paid for. Just because you pay for said services does not mean you are just an ATM unless they treat you like one and do not deliver the service. Then that's their problem and you leave.

                                          We throw alot of "unprofessionalism" at trainers on here. Sometimes it's clients who drop the ball by not communicating and/or thinking a business relationship is a BFF on both sides.
                                          For once in my life I agree with findeight.


                                          The nonsense from trainers I have seen some clients put up with astounds me.
                                          The nonsense from clients I have seen some trainers endure also astounds me.

                                          The phone works both ways.
                                          The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
                                          Jinxyhttp://tiny.cc/PIC798&http://tiny.cc/jinx364
                                          Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
                                          The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY

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