Letter to COTH Editor in Sept. 24, 2012 issue

[pds]

Note to self: This is why you can never go back to California. No offing way am I choosing between $2.5K horse show and a big bowl of nothing.

I do think the East Coast has survived the long-term effects of the Mileage Rule better than some other parts of the country.

If I'm not mistaken, parts of the East Coast have exceptions to the mileage rule.

[DMK]

The NE zone(s) have shorter mileage restrictions, right?

[comingback]

Yes...zones 1&2. And Long Island apparently is measured differently?

http://usef.org/documents/ruleBook/2...neralrules.pdf See GR 308.

Honestly I never read it, I thought I knew what it was all about. No wonder people get so up in arms over it

Sorry to take this a little off the original topic....

[RugBug]

Just to add a different voice: Where I live, we don't even HAVE schooling shows. No B shows, no C shows. Nada. Our "local" show venue has only rated A shows. It's a great venue, and all of two miles away, but the classes are $50 a pop. The local public stable that has shows for their clients sets the stride length at 10 feet, so they don't wear out their school horses. A good idea for them, and kind to their horses, but not the way you want to develop your inexperienced horse.

I woudn't mind that scenario. In mine, we only have schooling shows. There is a C rated show 2 hours away (by trailer) and it's too far for one day. There is also a local assoc. that does shows out of the facility...which has seen better days. that show runs me about $800 for two days. If they ran a four class division over one day, I might be convinced to try to go down and back in the day, and cut my costs to about $300 or so.

I will be attending a schooling show this Sunday. It's one day, I don't have to miss work. I can leave mid-morning because my classes will run around noon. I show off the trailer. There might be one other person in my class. If I do 2'9", there will probably be no one else. Sigh. But it will only cost me about $100. That is something I can get behind.

Can I get some perspective here? Am I just fortunate to have A (and sometimes AA) shows within one to two hours from me? Sounds like in other parts of the country its a days trek requiring the stalls, hotel, etc. Just trying to get the whole picture

Id like to add, I feel like we have good schooling show options here, and I'm more likely to stick to them until I am ready for a rated division. Definitely cheaper!

The closest A shows to me are about 3.5 hours in the trailer.

[jlphilli]

I can totally get behind the idea that when you jump big sticks you should earn more $$, and in a perfect world, the big class of the show should be very inexpensive to enter, but you have to qualify (and it has restricted entries). If you jump little sticks (me!) it should be on the lowest end of the $$ scale for earnings, and if that means none, I'd rather have a lower entry fee and no prize money, than the current situation I see, which is significant entry fees and prize money that doesn't even cover the cost of entries if you win all your classes - because that is what is happening outside the A rated divisions.

And honestly, have you ever kept a log of expenses and earnings over a show season? I have back in 2007. I was doing pretty damn well that season to boot (hey, miracles can happen). So my earnings in my C rated division were a factor. Barely. I did 15 shows that season and I thing my earnings extended my show season by ... 1 show. I did get three more shows out of catch braiding though! About an 8% prize money ROI isn't exactly lighting the world on fire. But if my show bill had been reduced by $50/show over that same time period I would have ended up better off over the year w/o a lick of prize money - the ONLY thing that has changed since 2007 is show fees have gone up. Prize money looks about the same. From an ammy point of view that prize money is nice and a smaller show bill than you expected is sweet... but if you do the math, financially it makes more sense to lower entries and lower prize money except in the biggest shows/bigger sticks.

So I really think we seriously need to restructure the prize money in this country to reward those who jump big sticks. And jumping big sticks has never been about ammys vs. pros. It's always been about rewarding excellence, regardless of ammy/pro status.

That said, that just isn't going to happen easily. Show managers are not just on this planet to look out for the welfare of the sport. The good ones do, but they too have mortgages. And the USEF only survives if it - like any other business - grows revenue/membership. And pros make a lot of money by taking clients to shows, regardless of what size stick they jump. And damn it, ammies are some of the hardest working people out there, who seem to pay endlessly for a hobby with few rewards other than personal satisfaction, a few plinking dollars off a show bill on a very good day and a nice venue. Of course we ALL deserve more! It's tough to argue that point. And the whole system is geared to giving us more, but it's not hard to see its unsustainable. I think this is one of those moments that requires everyone to make some hard choices and all give up some things we might like, and make our first instinct to ask not what I can do for myself, but what I should do for my sport.

OK, that was a tad disengenuous. A degree of self motivation and self interest is critical, nobody succeeds without it. But that whole "unsustainable" thing has a way of biting you in the ass and taking away your choices, so maybe making hard choices while there is still time for choices is in everyone's self interest? Maybe everyone needs to think about what they can live without instead of what more do they need. For instance, maybe a pro doesn't have to spend 36+ weeks on the road at A shows. Maybe he could devote some time to some local/C/weekend shows with his client base that is not really ready to win in the rated classes at AA shows, or is competing in unrated divisions. And maybe said clients could save a few bucks and not go to those shows unless they are ready to be competitive in the A divisions? And maybe show managers and the USEF could create a young horse day (same day as the schooling day?) that is exempt from a good chunk of fees so trainers could get their young horses in the ring without being distracted by the pressures of clients (as well as shipping those horses home after if the barn was close thereby potentially saving on stall fees - i.e., corresponding 2 day rates like some HB classes offer). And maybe prize money could be restructured so more of it goes to the highest level classes rather than lower level classes (you know, regardless of who wins what).

But all that involves some concessions on the part of everybody. It's not going to be pain free, and it shouldn't be pain free for one at the expense of another - everyone needs to belly up to to the bar on this one. However a productive discussion on what a person could do to change this sport for the better, rather than what they are not willing to give up would be useful (albeit something of a pipe dream).

^Bravo Pretty much spot on, IMO.

It's not going to be pain free, and it shouldn't be pain free for one at the expense of another - everyone needs to belly up to to the bar on this one.

Can we apply this to our country/the government as well??!

[comingback]

I assume I'm close to you (you're in PA, I ride in Hunterdon County, NJ), but I've also lived and shown in California and Texas.

In both CA and Texas, you don't have a choice—you are going to 5-day shows and paying for a stall, day fees, set-up, and a whole division whether you like it or not. In Texas, it was at least $1k per week; in CA, more like $2.5k per week after tacking on trainer's day fees, grooms, braiding, and whatnot.

In NJ, I've been amazed by the ability to trailer in to "A" rated shows—the horses get braided at home, hop on the trailer, show in a division and come back home for about a third of what I was paying in Texas, even. It boggles my mind. Beyond that, I sometimes feel like we have so many shows here that I can't even decide where to go any given weekend.

I am not far, and used to be in your neck of the woods

It's so easy to get tunnel vision when you grow up in a state you can drive through in less than 3 hours.

And showing can be expensive, but when I hear all these 1-3k for an A show I always assumed (and we know what happens when you do that) it was because the posters were with BNT do big time things. Hmmm....things to think about....

[RugBug]

I am not far, and used to be in your neck of the woods

It's so easy to get tunnel vision when you grow up in a state you can drive through in less than 3 hours.

And showing can be expensive, but when I hear all these 1-3k for an A show I always assumed (and we know what happens when you do that) it was because the posters were with BNT do big time things. Hmmm....things to think about....

Nope...I am with the littlest of little trainers. She is honest as the day is long and "salt of the earth." She is a friend (as much as people on COTH say that's bad business) and genuinely wants me to succeed and have fun with my horse, whatever that looks like. She NEVER pushes me to show.

But when the closest "quality" show (C-rated, 2 hours away, maybe 5 or so entries in a class) costs close to $800 for two days without trainers fees, she knows it may only be in my budget once a year. Trainer goes to some 5-6 As a year...by herself. Leaves on Tuesday, is back on Friday so she can teach on Saturday and Sunday.

If there were closer shows, with one day options, I might actually go more often. Part of my issue is location (it's 99% eventing here), part is an unwillingness to fork ove a significant portion of my paycheck for one show.

[salymandar]

But when the closest "quality" show (C-rated, 2 hours away, maybe 5 or so entries in a class) costs close to $800 for two days without trainers fees, she knows it may only be in my budget once a year. Trainer goes to some 5-6 As a year...by herself. Leaves on Tuesday, is back on Friday so she can teach on Saturday and Sunday.

Reading this, I feel so very fortunate that I can do the AAs at a local A show about an hour from me and pay the trainer for less than $250 total. Now, I ship myself, braid myself, and groom myself. If I didn't do all that, it would be less than $500. Shipping in for the A/Os over two days would be less than $400 shoestring, or under $750 paying for services. I think would show only a few times a year, if at all, if I lived near you. Under the best of circumstances, it can still be a losing proposition to get a young horse experience. I just can't imagine what it is like under these.

DMK is right, the current horse show system is unsustainable. No matter how you slice it, owning a competition horse is expensive. The system does need to be fixed, but it can't be on the backs of those who make a lot of sacrifices to own a horse and compete. These are the people who buy the culls, be they a wash out of the bigger program, too old, not sound enough, or whatever. These are the people who pay the salaries of many professionals and buy the products of those who sponsor the professionals. Many of us, as was said earlier, do not relish being forced to pay our hard-earned money to support those who ride at the elite level so they can earn us bragging rights at international competition or bring along a young horse more cheaply than we can. We don't care if we are the downfall of the U.S.'s international reputation because we are so far removed from it.

Go ahead, reshape the system, but give us something to work toward. Give us meaningful competition and the opportunity to work with the best trainer we can afford. I think this is why you find so many people at the big shows with the BNTs -- because want to ride with good programs and have their horses in good quality programs. Don't get me wrong, there are good MNTs and LNTs out there, but I bet they are few and far between in some of these areas where you have to travel huge distances to show.

[Tha Ridge]

Yes...zones 1&2. And Long Island apparently is measured differently?

http://usef.org/documents/ruleBook/2...neralrules.pdf See GR 308.

Honestly I never read it, I thought I knew what it was all about. No wonder people get so up in arms over it

Sorry to take this a little off the original topic....

See, but I don't think it's off-topic at all. The mileage rule has effectively driven up the cost of showing by eliminating competition between show managers. If I say I want to go to an 'A' show next weekend and have one option, then I will probably suck it up and go. If I have three options, I'm going to evaluate who's going to give me the most bang for my buck. As you've pointed out, we can still sort of do that in the northeast, but Texas, California and other larger states aren't so lucky.

If show managers saw people stop coming to their shows in lieu of someone else's, things might change. But for now, I think a lot of people take what's available just because they want to go show.

[RAyers]

...DMK is right, the current horse show system is unsustainable. No matter how you slice it, owning a competition horse is expensive. The system does need to be fixed, but it can't be on the backs of those who make a lot of sacrifices to own a horse and compete...

Hence why I moved to eventing in 1992. This system has been breaking for a long time and is finally reaching the fullness of bloat before it collapses. Sadly, eventing is going the same way because of the same idiots in the governing bodies are too interested in protecting their incomes and feudal domains.

I feel the perspective given by Teri Kessler here, as well as others, show the complete disconnect that the top of the sport has with its base.

[HJAlter84]

I do miss a lot about eventing and think horse shows could learn a thing or two from eventing but unfortunately it seems to be working in the other direction for less than 500 dollars usually significantly less I could enter, including stabling and fees, my horse in the same events with the BNTs. Most levels are run at the bigger venues. In fact a BNT campaigned my big horse at advanced whole bringing along the baby from novice to prelim before I got out of the game.

[RugBug]

I do miss a lot about eventing and think horse shows could learn a thing or two from eventing but unfortunately it seems to be working in the other direction for less than 500 dollars usually significantly less I could enter, including stabling and fees, my horse in the same events with the BNTs. Most levels are run at the bigger venues.

While eventing is less expensive that an A show, I did find it not much less than my C-show option...about $600+ (and that was without a hotel... thank-you dear friend who lived about 5 minutes from facility). It was definitely too much to divert more funds to than the two times I did compete.

[Linny]

Can I get some perspective here? Am I just fortunate to have A (and sometimes AA) shows within one to two hours from me? Sounds like in other parts of the country its a days trek requiring the stalls, hotel, etc. Just trying to get the whole picture

Id like to add, I feel like we have good schooling show options here, and I'm more likely to stick to them until I am ready for a rated division. Definitely cheaper!

I am about 1.5 hrs to Manchester and a bit les to Saugerties. If my barn is going to these shows they go for the week, mainly because "barn owned" horses are showing in "pro" divisions during the week. The ammy sends their horse and then pays day care + pro ride fees because it's just too far to drive on Tues-Fri to hack after working a full day. I get off work at 5 and with a child and SO and a 6am alarm clock and the current price of gas, I just can't make the trek.

Most of my ammy friends and I would love to be able to show on weekends only (after having our horses tucked in their own stall all week) and be able to get home to our families for dinner each night. If day shipping were more reasonable (haul in fees are dreadful) or 1 night stabling were available (for a 1 night price) it would be easier. Then again at my age, it's been 20 years since I drove a truck pulling a trailer and with iffy night vision and declining depth perception, I don't want to buy a rig. I also can't afford to commute in the type of vehicle needed to haul and insuring 2 vehicles negates the savings on stall fees.