Letter to COTH Editor in Sept. 24, 2012 issue

[Nickelodian]

Of course, this will be the outcome. No longer will their be a problem with "shamateurs" -- the problem will be with "pro-posers"!

COTH thread 2020: "Proposers getting free entries, it isn't fair, PROVE to me that you made money in this industry 2019"

[salymandar]

I kind of find the whole letter a big contradiction.

Me, too. And disturbing. Like many here, I am still in my Monday fog and I read the article this morning before work, so hopefully my thoughts are somewhat coherent.

In a nutshell -- my question is what makes a pro that much more deserving for discounted entry fees over the amateur who is also taking on significant risk -- and I would argue even more risk and higher financial burdens than the pro -- to bring along a talented young horse? I would be willing to wager, that the pro has many more advantages to bringing along that young horse than the amateur, who may be of equal talent in bringing along young horses.

I just don't see how the economics work. The more you ask the average amateur to pay to support the elite, the less likely they will be willing to spend their discretionary income cantering around some pretty obstacles in all kinds of crazy weather and uncomfortable clothing, for the chance of maybe winning a ribbon at a venue where the BNTs, BNRs, and BNHs play.

Wait...free entries? I'll call myself a Pro and leave the A/Os in the dust. 3'6-3'9 performance HERE I COME!!

Right! Under this proposal, I would imagine ammies with green horses would find it more benefical to do the pre-greens, the performance hunters, etc., than going the AA, A/O route, to reduce their overhead. With shoestring ammies bowing out and green horse-owning ammies going "pro" for the discount, how would show management be able to run shows?

Like it or not, ammies are the backbone of this industry. They support the pros when they buy and sell; when they show; when they board, lesson and need pro rides; when they pay for their gas, hotel, food, etc. when at a show; etc. Without their discretionary income, there would not be anyone to buy that nice youngster the pro made; pay its board, buy lessons and tune up rides; or take it to shows and pay training/ride fees, etc. Ammies do not owe the pros; the pros and show management owe the ammies for creating an industry where they can make a living.

[jlphilli]

COTH thread 2020: "Proposers getting free entries, it isn't fair, PROVE to me that you made money in this industry 2019"

^ lol exactly

[shadytrake]

I do want to emphasize that I LOVE my trainers. I couldn't show where I am without them. I'm just not in the financial position to support their personal entries. Ride my horse, I pay. Ride your horse, you pay.

I will be getting another youngster when my guy retires and I fully expect to foot the bill to get him/her ready for me to compete. That's all I can afford.

[meupatdoes]

That's the most ric*ckulous thing I've ever heard.

That article must have been written by one of those trainers who thinks they should have no cost of doing business whatsoever. Everything from the fancy hotel suite to three times as much money as they are actually paying the extra grooms to every last drop of fly spray when day care is already charged to the hilt to now all of their entry fees on THEIR OWN horses, apparently, needs to be covered by clients.

[comingback]

That's the most ric*ckulous thing I've ever heard.

That article must have been written by one of those trainers who thinks they should have no cost of doing business whatsoever. Everything from the fancy hotel suite to three times as much money as they are actually paying the extra grooms to every last drop of fly spray when day care is already charged to the hilt to now all of their entry fees on THEIR OWN horses, apparently, needs to be covered by clients.

If my google search is accurate, this is an ammie.

[Bent Hickory]

If my google search is accurate, this is an ammie.

But she could be an ammy trying to bring along a young horse with a profit motive and having to pay a pro to ride in the "greens" is eating into that.

[Nickelodian]

If my google search is accurate, this is an ammie.

A shammy? A sham-wow? Owns Sham-wow?

[vxf111]

If my google search is accurate, this is an ammie.

Your google search is inaccurate. Or, rather, I believe it's outdated. Meup was an ammy for many years but she turned pro.

[comingback]

Your google search is inaccurate. Or, rather, I believe it's outdated. Meup was an ammy for many years but she turned pro.

no no.....I was referring to the author of the letter to the editor. also checked usef.

[PINE TREE FARM SC]

What a great opportunity for those of us that own horses but no longer ride in shows. Simply turn Pro and cash in on free entries.
And you can't even claim we are shammies.
Sign me up !!

[vxf111]

no no.....I was referring to the author of the letter to the editor. also checked usef.

I misunderstood!

[Ruby G. Weber]

In order to make any money in this business, I can't afford to have all my young horses in training with professionals -- particularly for young horses traveling with a show string, when the show entry fees are just a drop in the bucket. Instead, I opt to save real $$$ by using very talented and hungry amateurs to do most of the riding/training/showing who appreciate the opportunity to work with talented horses. Shouldn't breeders like myself also benefit from reduced/no show fees?

I question whether your "amateur" riders are within the USEF definition of same. But regardless....

The editorial, although not well written, does hit on an important point. IT IS VERY EXPENSIVE to develop a young horse - hunter or jumper - in the USA. I don't think the solution offered is viable either but the system does need revamping.

At the root of everything is the cost - that's a no brainer. The cost to produce a decent horse show, the cost of entries, the cost to the owners in expenses, day care, etc. A possible solution? Redistribute prize money. I believe that the winner of a single class in the so called "professional" divisions should pay their entry with - in the hunters- the possible exception of the under saddle.

I do not believe the junior divisions should pay prize money nor do I think - flame suit on - AMATEURS should be winning money.

Similar to racing, USEF should consider a rule that states a percentage of the prize money goes to USEF declared professionals.

With redistribution of prize money entry fees in classes which do not pay prize money SHOULD be reduced.

Unfortunately most professional managers don't want to hear of restructuring. Ever try to get management to write a check for prize money as opposed to crediting your account. And then there are the shows who will not award prize money when you check out but send it "within" thirty days. Why should they be earning interest on your money?

There are changes needed. The author has that part right.

[Bent Hickory]

I question whether your "amateur" riders are within the USEF definition of same. But regardless....

It's not yours to question. I've read the rules. I understand the rules. It's really not that hard to abide by them.

[ako]

What BS!!! Many of us Ammies will never go pro for many reasons. In my case, lack of adequate talent is one reason. But also the fact that I can make more in other industries.

That allows me to pay for my very expensive hobby. And by pay, I mean BO, trainer, vets, farrier, massage therapists, grooms, stable workers, horse breeders/trainers, retail establishments, and more. And don't forget show management!!!

Not sure who the letter's author is or what they were smoking!!!! Us lowly Ammies DO pay the pros entries, for the most part. We just happen to do it indirectly, in return for services rendered.

There should be more options to show young horses cheaply. Pushing Ammies out of the sport will not accomplish that.

[meupatdoes]

What BS!!! Many of us Ammies will never go pro for many reasons. In my case, lack of adequate talent is one reason. But also the fact that I can make more in other industries.

What does that have to do with anything?
I make more as a lawyer than I do as a pro but I still show on a pro card because I am no longer eligible amateur.

[Nickelodian]

I do not believe the junior divisions should pay prize money nor do I think - flame suit on - AMATEURS should be winning money.

I'll bite on your flame suit...

So seriously, you think that (a typical amateur) that pays:

1. Horse show
2. Trainer day care fee
3. Trainer Schooling Fee
4. Trainer rides
5. Trainer lodging
6. Groom lodging
7. Trainer/Groom meals
8. Groom tips
9. Braider
10. Hauling
11. Hay/Feed/Shavings Splits
12. Board for said horse back at home even if on the road 2+ weeks a month

Should have no hope of even getting a couple of hundred bucks knocked off their bill? Give them that satin ribbon and a pat on the head for completely supporting the industry? Most trainers' horses aren't even on the splits, so typically we're also supporting said young horses in a major way already.

I bring along my own young horses, do ok at it, and get no financial breaks other than the hopes of maybe selling one on down the road.

If it came to the point that I would see nothing other than a blue ribbon in any of my classes b/c I'm an ammy, I'd go do AQHA where the biggest purses are for the ammy classes. Maybe I should go do AQHA anyway.

[HJAlter84]

I think bent hickory has a valid point. I believe many US breeders produce horses on par or even better than europe but when you can go abroad and pick up a young horse with a decent show record to meter 1.30 plus with ability to move up and get it here for less than 50 k how can breeders compete? The show infrastructure is just more conducive to producing horses there. That doesn't mean I think amateurs should foot the bill but here has to be a solution to make producing horses more affordable. Quite honestly I think shows are pricing breeders, average amateurs and up and coming professionals without a trust fund out of the game. Any wonder why we get our butts kicked on the international stage? Europeans don't need to sell us there very best and we can't afford to produce them at least not the shear volume of them to pick and chose the very best and still be able to sell the second string to waiting international buyers.

[Void]

Wait...free entries? I'll call myself a Pro and leave the A/Os in the dust. 3'6-3'9 performance HERE I COME!!

I'd do it in a heartbeat too for free entries Yeah maybe most of my ribbons will be purple... or powder blue if the class pins that low... or maybe not at all but my horse would get a lot of miles

[Kestrel]

This proposal would be the final bullet to the brain of the H/J horse show industry. Not many of the current ammies would stick around to be screwed yet again, and good luck getting new rich/warm bodies to take up the burden. It's just another example of the "somebody else should support me while I play" mindset that we see everywhere in today's society.

If pros "can't afford" entry fees for young horses, thay can get together and put on schooling days at each other's barns. No judges, no braiding, just the chance to take the young horses on an outing to jump around.