• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

When to call it quits?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • When to call it quits?

    I just got a call from a former instructor. She'd informed me that the mother of one of her clients had told her about my recent fall off of my horse (which I'll detail later). She was calling to check up on me and wanted to let me know that she was concerned. She then went on to say that I need to reconsider maintaining ownership of the Thoroughbred that bucked me off.

    She said that, at my age (23), I don't need to be falling off, and told me about her accident recently where she pulled a horse over on top of herself, and it made her reconsider her programme, which is a very, very safety conscious programme.

    This fall is my second within the span of six weeks. Last time, my horse over-jumped a 2' vertical (cleared the standards), and just wasn't ready for THAT much of an effort. My leg came back pretty far, which scared him, and I landed in a bit of a heap on his back, so he took off bucking. I almost saved myself, but, alas, it wasn't to be. I landed flat on my back (ouch). To my credit, I did give him a great release

    I put him in training with my instructor for a month afterwards while I recovered from back pain. I thought he'd benefit from some time with a professional.

    This past Thursday, it was a freak occurance that got me. We just finished up our ride, and he was a total star the entire time. Often, when we're cooling off, I'll drop my stirrups. I do it all the time, and thought nothing of it as I pulled my feet out. As soon as I dropped them, my instructor flung her arm up into the air. My horse leapt straight into the air, and darting off to the side. He was wearing an EZ Boot (he lost a shoe) and at some point tore it off - we're not sure if he spooked because he stepped on it or tore it off after the spook. Ultimately, we're not sure what happened - if it was the stirrups, the sudden movement, or the boot.

    This time, I rolled, but still managed to hit my head. Went to the ER with blurred vision in my left eye and nausea. CT scan showed no bleeding, but showed a dark spot (which I got an MRI for).

    I've owned this horse for two years. Between the two of us (illness & schedule on my part, injury on his), he's got about 120 days under saddle. I'm just getting into riding him more often and we're making great strides. He's a lot of horse, I knew when I got him - he's high energy and very fit - but he's never given me problems before, other than some baby moments in the canter depart. I've never felt unsafe on him. I consider myself to be a strong rider with good balance, and I don't feel as though I'm over-horsed.

    Aside from these two falls, I haven't fallen off in two years. I'm a little confused as to why my former instructor says I can't "keep" falling off, as though I do it all the time. I understand her concern, of course. She's a new mom (well, her little boy is 2), plus she just had a bad fall, so I see where she's coming from. My instructor has said, as well, that if he does it once more I should move on.

    So, do you think it's time to call it quits on a horse that has bucked me off twice in the past two months? Once for sure out of fear, the other time...? We really don't know what happened.

    I should add, this last time, he'd had some time off and I did not lunge him since we were only going to walk/trot and work on some lateral work, so he had a lot of pent up energy. Lesson learned on my part.

  • #2
    Sounds like she is projecting...
    "You can't really debate with someone who has a prescient invisible friend"
    carolprudm

    Comment


    • #3
      How do you feel? If you don't feel safe riding him, then it's time to part ways. If you feel safe, then keep riding him. I always find my falls are clustered- I'll have none for ages, then two or three together.

      Hope you're feeling better.
      Horse Show Names Free name website with over 6200 names. Want to add? PM me!

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        I feel like I'm not done with him yet. He's not dangerous - he's just young and stupid with a lot of energy to express those qualities. He's come leaps and bounds since I got him off the track (no manners whatsoever).

        I do think I need to do more to strengthen my core as we start jumping higher.

        I feel better - still getting a little nauseous with a few short-lived headaches in-between. Thanks

        Comment


        • #5
          If in two years he only has about 120 days under saddle, how can you describe him as "very fit?" I can surely understand high energy because that is his personality, but how can he be very fit if he's been actually ridden that little?

          But yes, I think they're over-reacting.

          Comment


          • #6
            I agree that her personal experience seems to be coloring her advice to you. I don't think you should allow this to erode your confidence. At age 23, not having fallen off a fit TB for two years, I think there is every reason to be sure of yourself. These two incidents could have happened to anyone and don't necessarily mean you have an unsafe horse. This is coming from a safety-conscious 60 yr old TB rider!
            Mon Ogon (Mo) and Those Wer the Days (Derby)

            Comment


            • #7
              Hmmm...well if you are not afraid of him and it doesn't sound like he is purposefully bucking you off (sounds like a couple of random "baby" moments).....
              Any chance your old trainer has her eye on him? Just playing devil's advocate.
              RIP Spider Murphy 4/20/02 - 10/31/10

              Comment


              • #8
                Aside from these two falls, I haven't fallen off in two years. I'm a little confused as to why my former instructor says I can't "keep" falling off, as though I do it all the time. I understand her concern, of course. She's a new mom (well, her little boy is 2), plus she just had a bad fall, so I see where she's coming from. My instructor has said, as well, that if he does it once more I should move on.
                Maybe they feel you are over mounted and don't want to come right out and tell you so for fear of hurting your feelings.
                I don't always feel up to arguing with your ignorance

                Comment


                • #9
                  You said it was the former instructor that was concerned.

                  What does your current instructor think?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    You fell off twice in six weeks because of spooks? That's just ... horses. Hopefully you're not falling off consistently every six weeks, but it's hardly a reason to cash in your chips and take up knitting.

                    If this is a former instructor, I would politely tell her to mind her own business. Really, did you mistype your age, because most 23-year-olds bounce pretty well.
                    "Why would anybody come here if they had a pony? Who leaves a country packed with ponies to come to a non-pony country? It doesn't make sense!"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      So, what does your current instructor say? Or the trainer you sent the horse to? If other professionals (or experienced amateurs) have also told you the horse is too much for you, perhaps they're right.

                      There's falling off because you have a bad moment, and there's staying on because you haven't had a moment bad enough.

                      There's no shame in admitting the match isn't working if it isn't, and often the right horse is what gets you in the saddle often enough to really form a partnership.

                      Without seeing you and the horse working together... hard to say if it's time to quit, or not. But I *can* tell you you don't want to rack up too many concussions at *any* age.
                      Patience pays.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I agree - if _you're_ not worried, why should your former instructor be? I'd be annoyed that someone felt it was her business, in fact.

                        That said, if you're still having nausea and a few headaches, you must have gotten your bell rung more than a little. The horse doesn't sound dangerous to me, but you might concentrate on groundwork for another week or so until you're back to normal. Heads don't heal all that quickly (as me how I know).

                        But 23 isn't too old to be falling off. 80 might be. If you ride, you're going to hit the dirt now and then.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Several thoughts

                          A) How do YOU feel about it? are YOU "riding scared" or not?

                          B) What does your CURRENT instructor think about it? (I found it a little difficult to tell when you were referring to your former instructor and when your current instructor)

                          C) What does your HORSE think about it? Some horses, after you fall off, see it as an opportunity, and will try again. Others see it as a mistake, nd will try to avoid getting you off.

                          For instance, when they are starting to jump. they often give a gleeful buck after landing. For several of my horses, if I stay on, they tend to keep doing it, even if I correct them. But if I fall off, they seem to stop doing it. I certainly don't intentionally fall off, and I am very annoyed with both me and the horse when it happens, but it does seem to "cure" the problem. I have had similar exeriences with being bitten by "B52 bomber" hores flies, and with spooking at deer.

                          But I have known other horse where the rider's falling off has made the problem worse.

                          C) Being bucked off is VERY different from "pulling a horse over on you". I would seriously consider stopping riding a horse that I "pulled over on top of me".

                          D) What does she mean by "at your age"? You are only 23. You still "bounce". I am more than twice your age (see the "over 50 thread). I may go several years without falling, and then fall off several times in a few months, then go several years.

                          E) Yes, it is good idea to build your core (to ride better as well as to stay on). Also wear a safety vest (as well as an approved helmet) if you are at all unsure of the horse's future behavior.

                          F) You could also work on desensitizing your horse to "spooky" things, like people throwing their hands in the air.
                          Janet

                          chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I'll repeat everybody else and say it depends on how you feel. If you're worried, at all, that he'll spook or overly react then he may need some time to get desensitized. If you're not worried about it and feel you can handle his "episodes" then it's your call. I'd be blunt with your trainer to see if she feels your overfaced in general with him or is just nervous because of her past. I say that only because we had an older lady in the barn who regularly fell off and wasn't concerned by it but was very much a danger to herself.

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Monica67 View Post
                              Maybe they feel you are over mounted and don't want to come right out and tell you so for fear of hurting your feelings.
                              My former instructor has only seen my horse once, ever, and it was in a walk-trot class at a local schooling show in which he was a complete angel. I mean, perfect. She's never, ever seen him jump OR canter, never seen him being lunged or handled on the ground.

                              Originally posted by Janet View Post
                              Several thoughts

                              A) How do YOU feel about it? are YOU "riding scared" or not?
                              I don't feel scared. I was nervous the first time we cantered after my first fall, but after he didn't pull anything, I settled down and we had a good ride.

                              B) What does your CURRENT instructor think about it? (I found it a little difficult to tell when you were referring to your former instructor and when your current instructor)
                              Sorry, that is confusing. My current instructor likes him a lot and thinks he's talented. She doesn't think he's too much for me, but she does agree he's a bit of an airhead. She said if he starts being malicious about his bucking, then I need to consider moving on.

                              C) What does your HORSE think about it? Some horses, after you fall off, see it as an opportunity, and will try again. Others see it as a mistake, and will try to avoid getting you off
                              He looked pretty sorry lol! Both times, a rider got back on him (my instructor the first, me the second), so hopefully that helped some that he's not getting to "be done" after he loses a rider. He was definitely freaked out by it both times.


                              C) Being bucked off is VERY different from "pulling a horse over on you". I would seriously consider stopping riding a horse that I "pulled over on top of me".

                              D) What does she mean by "at your age"? You are only 23. You still "bounce". I am more than twice your age (see the "over 50 thread). I may go several years without falling, and then fall off several times in a few months, then go several years.
                              I think she just meant that I have a lot of life ahead of me and she doesn't want me to get injured/killed.

                              E) Yes, it is good idea to build your core (to ride better as well as to stay on). Also wear a safety vest (as well as an approved helmet) if you are at all unsure of the horse's future behavior.

                              F) You could also work on desensitizing your horse to "spooky" things, like people throwing their hands in the air.
                              I'd agree with that He's never been particularly spooky, so it surprises me. I mean, jackets flapping, tarps, people running... he's never paid it much mind. I'll certainly work on that, though.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                It sounds like you're doing fine. Young horses do dumb things, 2 falls are not the end of the world. If you feel that you're doing fine, and your instructor does, then keep on with the plan

                                This past Thursday, it was a freak occurance that got me. We just finished up our ride, and he was a total star the entire time. Often, when we're cooling off, I'll drop my stirrups. I do it all the time, and thought nothing of it as I pulled my feet out. As soon as I dropped them, my instructor flung her arm up into the air. My horse leapt straight into the air, and darting off to the side. He was wearing an EZ Boot (he lost a shoe) and at some point tore it off - we're not sure if he spooked because he stepped on it or tore it off after the spook. Ultimately, we're not sure what happened - if it was the stirrups, the sudden movement, or the boot.

                                Ok, I do have to mention that this is a bit concerning to me. I know many people like to walk around without stirrups, just slumped in the saddle, after their ride, and I know a number of people who've been badly hurt this way. I'm not sure why your instructor flung her arm up, but this is maybe too green a horse to be riding without stirrups while you're cooling off on a long rein. So, just be smart and careful, some accidents are preventable and you can just avoid those. Otherwise, pay more attention to what your current instructor thinks and how you feel than your old instructor. There must be a reason you left her

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Kitty View Post
                                  If in two years he only has about 120 days under saddle, how can you describe him as "very fit?" I can surely understand high energy because that is his personality, but how can he be very fit if he's been actually ridden that little?

                                  But yes, I think they're over-reacting.
                                  He's been worked much more consistantly lately - pretty much all of his rides have been in the past few months. Plus, he runs laps around the pasture. I suppose "very" is an overstatement, but my point is, he's muscled and strong. Everyone has their own definition of "fit."

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    To me, falling of is a part of our sport. It is an inherently dangerous sport and falling off is going to happen sooner or later. There's falling off, when the rider falls off by no real fault of the horse. Then there's being bucked off, when the horse is trying to get the rider off (one of my pet peeves is when riders say they've been "bucked off" when in fact they've just fallen off). And there's falling down, when the horse trips and falls accidentally. And then of course legitimate spooking causing a fall.

                                    To me, both of your falls are more in the "falling off/spooking" category - they seem legitimate on your horse's part.

                                    Being angry at the rider losing the position over/after a jump is very common for a young or sensitive horse. We've all had that happen to us! Nothing to be ashamed of. And sometimes we stay on, sometimes we don't! But it's pretty common for a young/green/sensitive horse to buck when the rider ends up on their neck, especially when the leg gooses their sides!

                                    Your second fall seems to be a legitimate spook and combination of factors, which unfortunately seems to get us all at one time or another!

                                    I personally would never blame a horse for either of these falls if it were me. Just a few weeks ago, I got lazy on take off and relaxed my upper body, assuming the horse was going to take a longer distance. Instead, being tired, he chipped, over a wide solid oxer. I ended up in front of the saddle (practically hanging onto his ears!) with only one stirrup. I saved it, barely, and my horse was SOooo kind to me and didn't react or buck - which is out of the ordinary as he usually gets pissed about that sort of thing. Anyway, my point is, that was my mistake, and had I come off, I would have blamed myself and learned from my mistake.

                                    The only time I would ever move on from a horse in your situation is if I doubted my ability/strength/technique to properly train a young athletic horse. If you feel like this is just going to keep happening because you're not able to effectively deal with these situations, or if you feel like you're becoming scared and intimidated (which is perfectly legitimate), there's nothing wrong with admitting you're over-horsed.

                                    Other than that, to me, these falls are just part of the game - one where you made a mistake and he reacted, and one where he spooked.

                                    Also - 23 is so young!! If you were like 60 or preggers or had a back condition or something, I might understand, but I am very confused at your former instructor's concern. I'm very safety conscious myself, but her concern doesn't make very much sense.
                                    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. (Aristotle)

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      The truly athletic horses that have the talent to go really far can have a normal reaction or spook, but due to their sheer power, will either lose the rider or give them one heckuva chiropractic adjustment. If you aren't upset, and don't fall off at every spooky, fine. But if the horse is dumping you with every baby/green moment, and as another person pointed out, only has 120 days under saddle, the horse will get fitter and stronger, then you may be overmounted. It will get better in the mind, too, but every horse remains a creature of flight and can always spook. I know I don't need GP talent for my budget, so I wouldn't keep one that could merely sneeze and throw me. I'm a good rider, and have ridden those, and know they went on to great things. I just don't need that kind of power. But it is ultimately up to you, just remember that if most people you respect share an opinion different from yours, be open to it.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Ride horses? Then ya fall off. It's a sport with an inherent risk. Any time you are with your horse (it starts when ya put the halter on) you are "training" him what to do or what not to do. Halter off-he's on his own time. Any horse at any age can do anything at any given moment in time. Complacent riders = tragedy waiting to happen. Unfocused riders = tragedy waiting to happen. Intimidated riders + horse who has your number = tragedy waiting to happen. No matter how many zeros were attached to his price tag when he was purchased, he is a horse, subject to doing anything and everything. He is always unpredictable. Riders who drop their stirrups and their reins and sit there slumped in the saddle are the riders who will get hurt, not might get hurt, will get hurt. As a young horse trainer for a gazillion years (so it seems), never ever do that with any horse......just get off. I am sure this is a nice horse, lacks some training and experience. Daily consistent work is always advisable unless horse is injured. As the others said, if you are intimidated or scared (there is NO shame in either), contemplate selling him. If you are not, then cowgirl up a little! ;-)
                                        Bethe Mounce
                                        Head Trainer, AmeriCan Romance Equestrian
                                        https://www.facebook.com/AmericanRomanceEquestrian
                                        Brentwood CA

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X