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  • #41
    Originally posted by To the MAX View Post
    Yes, it's true. All young riders only want easy horses. Then they hop off, hand their robot...oops I mean horse... to a groom, hop in their Mercedes and zoom away to shop for their 5th custom saddle.
    I know, right?

    Originally posted by marginall View Post
    dumb post, op.
    Not necessarily. If you read below, you'll see OP is going off of what her trainer is telling her.

    Originally posted by HJAlter84 View Post
    Horsey is happy where it is, trainer has no problems, and says she loves the horse. ... I often think it would be nice to give a young rider without a ton of $$s a chance to ride a sound, athletic, if a bit quirky horse. But when I bring it up I'm told those kids don't exist and horse would be a liability if said kid gets hurt. It's good to hear that isn't true everywhere.
    Kids without guts certainly isn't true everywhere. But I think trainer has a point about liability. She may just not be sure that horse wont revert to prior behavior under someone else, or want to give the horse more time to develop into a horse that can take a joke without freaking out. Or she may like the ride, even if she's doing it for free.

    Originally posted by HJAlter84 View Post
    After reading the replies, even though clearly there are gutsy, talented, horse crazy kids out there. probably best to forget that idea.
    I don't know, you might be able to find the right combination. It comes down to how much you trust your trainer, I think. If you think she wouldn't steer you wrong and honestly has the best interest of your horse at heart, then I'd trust it. If you suspect a tiny bit she might like having a nice horse to show and is protecting that for herself...well then...

    Originally posted by 0Chimera0 View Post
    The catch though - how "rough around the edges" is he in truth - has your trainer's reports are likely to be biased towards you keeping the horse under the trainer's tutelage, supposing he/she likes him and/or your money. Show up unexpectedly in the middle of the day/morning when he/she puts his/her training rides in; make your own assessment of the horse's performance - it could still be as clear as mud, or it could give you clarity as to the horse's development and suitability.
    Was kind of thinking the same thing.

    Originally posted by HJAlter84 View Post
    I guess I always thought if in a position to help a young rider I would do it.
    Amazingly admirable.

    However I may have to admit with this particular horse I am not really in that position. May be best not to mess with a good thing.
    Maybe not, if horse is really going to fall apart under anyone else but your trainer. But horse might not, too. It's totally up to you and trusting your gut. Might want to ask the trainer what they think for a timeline of getting to that point, though, just to see what they say.

    Although I may nudge my little hunter,,who when she doesn't pin, it's generally because she naturally wants to carry more pace than is popular, toward the jumper ring which I find more fun.
    DO IT!!!!!
    "Aye God, Woodrow..."

    Comment


    • #42
      <<I think a lot of kids (and adults) would be willing to ride more difficult horses but what I have found is that few trainers want to put in the time (in or out of the ring) to teach riders to ride more difficult horses.>>

      AMEN. At least this was my experience in the hunter world.

      It was much more of an effort for the trainer to teach me on my sensitive horse than to teach me on a schoolmaster that wouldn't miss a beat if I made a mistake. Even though my horse was gorgeous and talented (and honest, but just needed a precise ride), trainer did not like her. It was the same for other riders who had sensitive horses. It was easier for the trainer to have a pro show the more temperamental horse while having the amateur/kid rider show one of the schoolmasters. It was a win-win for the trainer at the shows.

      I eventually switched over to eventing, and the trainers loved my mare - and taught me to ride her well.
      In loving memory of Chutney (1977 - 2008)

      Comment


      • #43
        Originally posted by Kim View Post
        AMEN. At least this was my experience in the hunter world.
        Not just the hunter world. When I was younger, I rode in what the barn called a Semi Private With Jumping lesson. Not specifically hunter or jumper, there were just fences, and we were expected to go over them. The trainer's idea of making progress was just cranking the jumps higher and higher. When I didn't want to jump higher, I was given more difficult horses to ride and the trainer just ignored me.

        I would like to say that I was brave and learned a lot and managed to train all of those horses into 3'6" champions, but really all that happened was that the horses acted out in ways I didn't know how to deal with, I was confused, the instructor was too busy with the students who wanted to do what SHE wanted to do, and my confidence took a huge hit. Thankfully, I was only physically hurt a few times, but it was a few years before I was brave enough to start jumping again, and even then, it was crossrails on schoolmasters.

        Trainers who take short cuts can have a HUGE impact on the competence and confidence level of young riders. There's a big cause and effect there.

        Comment


        • #44
          Originally posted by erniewalker View Post
          Trainers who take short cuts can have a HUGE impact on the competence and confidence level of young riders. There's a big cause and effect there.
          And sometimes the trainer says, "OK! Let's work on trot walk transitions and gradually bring you up to canter transitions on a circle so that you can get a good canter with your horse" and the student says,

          "...but I would like a jumping lesson."

          Oh and here I thought that TRYING to teach you how to make a canter you can jump out of IS a jumping lesson.
          Whatever, go gallop.
          The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
          Jinxyhttp://tiny.cc/PIC798&http://tiny.cc/jinx364
          Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
          The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY

          Comment


          • #45
            Originally posted by HJAlter84 View Post
            That today's young riders only want to ride the easy horses? If they are the slightest bit hot, have any quirks, spook, spin however infrequently no one but a pro will be bothered with them? Even when given the ride for free or very limited cost? Even if said horse, although inconsistent, when good, has been a hack and OF winner at AAs.? IDK, as a teen/young adult I would have given my right arm to get to ride a nice horse quirks and all, but trainer says those days are long gone. Really?
            At the amateur level, I think the entire industry now is geared towards easy horses.
            • Make it easy, they spend more $
            • Kids have less time to devote to learn since they participate in so many other activities. They need easy horses.
            • Many are not interested in the least at learning, they just want to participate.
            • Horse shows thses days have something for everyone to "compete" in. Less than capable riders on easy horses in dumbed down classes means $ for them and trainers

            Comment


            • #46
              Originally posted by pds View Post
              At the amateur level, I think the entire industry now is geared towards easy horses.
              I recently rode in the Pro section of a very well-regarded clinic and the most advanced flatwork we were asked to do was:
              -a few steps of trot legyield
              -a counter-canter depart (RL only, the left lead was forgotten). We were assured that we could wait for the long side if we happened to find ourselves in a corner.

              Seriously? For $500 in the professional group? When I lessoned with Gary Zook for $75 as an amateur still the **warmup** included halfpass/renvers/plie etc.

              My horse thought it was a nice relaxing indoor trail ride.

              Amateurs and pros alike could really set the bar higher for themselves but apparently it is easier to trot and canter large figures sticking mainly to circles and the perimeter and just stick a gag bit on it. And these riders are supposed to retrain the tricky ones? With what technical skills? 60m circles and no control over what lead the horse picks up on a curve?
              The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
              Jinxyhttp://tiny.cc/PIC798&http://tiny.cc/jinx364
              Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
              The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY

              Comment


              • #47
                Originally posted by meupatdoes View Post
                And sometimes the trainer says, "OK! Let's work on trot walk transitions and gradually bring you up to canter transitions on a circle so that you can get a good canter with your horse" and the student says,

                "...but I would like a jumping lesson."

                Oh and here I thought that TRYING to teach you how to make a canter you can jump out of IS a jumping lesson.
                Whatever, go gallop.
                Yep, it's the instant gratification philosophy. Why would I have to spend time on the boring stuff, I just wanna jump.
                PS - I'm stealing this line for my sig
                Life is hard. Buy a freaking helmet.
                Originally posted by meupatdoes
                Whatever, go gallop.

                Comment


                • #48
                  I don't think the "kids these days" rants (rich, lazy, entitled, without work ethic) are accurate. That is what each generation says about the next.

                  But since this is more about a specific horse, it's hard to say without seeing the horse what is really going on and whether finding a leasor (jr or not) is realistic. It might be that the trainer really enjoys the ride and doesn't want to lose it to a leasor. Or she might be trying to tell the OP the horse is too dangerous and too great a liability risk for her to take on.

                  Or it may just be that given the horse's quirks it might not be "worth it" for a leasor to take over board and show expenses if the horse is unlikely to be competitive (because of the quirks or otherwise). There is significant disincentive to show a horse unlikely to be competitive (cost, trainer protecting their reputation, etc.).

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    As the father of two fairly talented riding daughters, I can tell you that there are more opportunities to ride ponies than there is time for them to be ridden -- this is without involvement in outside activities (other than school). If and when their trainer and I commit to a new pony, it has got to be an opportunity from which the girls will benefit. At some point, a new pony to ride means another one doesn't get ridden. If there is time, there are always young horses around for them to flat.

                    And we have taken on a naughty one and I can tell you, it's not worth it.
                    Last edited by Bent Hickory; Sep. 19, 2012, 04:52 PM.
                    "I always remember you as quite the desk chair contrarian." - APirateLooksAtForty

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Originally posted by Rel6 View Post
                      Sweeping generalizations are never true.
                      Isn't that a Sweeping generalization in of itself?

                      All normal horses have four legs.

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #51
                        Thanks so much for the well thought out replies. They were all helpful. I would love give a young rider an opportunity who otherwise wouldn't have a ride but sure don't want anyone getting hurt or risk the work the trainer has put in to get this girl past her mistrust. I guess bottom line is that if it's meant to be the right person will come along.

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          I replied earlier and have been thinking about this a bit.

                          While I don't love generalizations, I think it's safe to say that the culture in the US has shifted to one that is more safety conscious. When I was young (oh no, I thought I'd never say that on COTH), we had lap belts in our cars if we had seat belts at all, hardly wore seat belts, rode bikes without helmets, and our parents smoked and drank while they were pregnant.

                          Today's society is more risk averse and safety conscious. That, I think, is driving this trend toward 'easier' horses. (And time constraints too - we're all so busy.)

                          I was seriously injured in a riding accident a few years ago and am much more cautious as a result. I'm not a parent, but I could definitely see parents being much more cautious about their children's mounts as well.

                          I believe your statement 'if it's meant to be'. Good luck with your horse.
                          ~ Citizens for a Kinder, Gentler COTH...our mantra: Be nice. ~

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            I think this is the case with many juniors..... unless you are in my situation where you have VERY limited funds to spend to lease a horse, but can go to the A/AA shows. It is very hard, but I have spent the last 10 years of my riding (I am a Junior) riding everything that came my way. Therefore, give me a little while and I can figure a horse out... If I had the opportunity to ride a nice horse that was quirky, I'd take it in a heartbeat, in fact, right now I have a nice TB that's very quirky... I suppose that is the way it is for me. But I think kids with the money to do so want the easiest horse they can find.

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              Maybe I'm too old to post a relevant response, but...I think economics play a role. I started riding at 40. Not having any money, I rode whatever was available. They call me "The Tick.". After riding bolters and stoppers, I'm pretty good at staying on. I can't say it was fun, though. Challenging, yes. But are most juniors looking for "life lessons"? I don't think so. Fulfilling your dreams shouldn't be THAT hard unless there's no other way. You don't find out how valuable the challenge was until later. Personally, if I won the lottery and could do it again, I wouldn't take the easy route - I wouldn't learn as much. But that's with hindsight!

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                I only had time to read the initial post but I have always loved the "quirky" horses with what I like to think of as "personality" rather than problems. I would never want a point-and-shoot horse. I like the challenge. Not a fan of horses that have virtually had their personality trained out of them.
                                Then again... I have always lacked self preservation so I would get on anything lol

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  >>I have always loved the "quirky" horses with what I like to think of as "personality" rather than problems. I would never want a point-and-shoot horse. I like the challenge. Not a fan of horses that have virtually had their personality trained out of them.>>

                                  I agree 100%. My horses always had strong personalities (beginning with my pony), so when I got on the push-button ones, I quickly became bored.

                                  Of course, I mean sensitive - not dangerous - horses!

                                  The ideal would be a horse with personality at home but push-button at the shows. LOL
                                  In loving memory of Chutney (1977 - 2008)

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    Originally posted by meupatdoes View Post
                                    And sometimes the trainer says, "OK! Let's work on trot walk transitions and gradually bring you up to canter transitions on a circle so that you can get a good canter with your horse" and the student says,

                                    "...but I would like a jumping lesson."

                                    Oh and here I thought that TRYING to teach you how to make a canter you can jump out of IS a jumping lesson.
                                    Whatever, go gallop.
                                    I don't understand that mindset. I'm not denying it exists- I'm just saying I don't get it. I was that kid in lessons telling my instructor that I really wasn't equipped to be doing xyz, because I'd never done abc. I was really irritating, because my poor instructors were disinterested college kids who really didn't want to deal with pipsqueak kids who wanted to practice posting trot without stirrups for hours on end.

                                    I help out a friend teaching some 4Hers now, and when they pull that crap on me, I tell them "if you want to learn how to ride, then you will listen and absorb and progress. If you want to learn how to stay on, then I'll just sit here silently, and we'll just see what happens. If you just wanna have happy pony time, and don't give a lick of care for your own safety or ability, I'll go clean my horse's stall, have fun, and I'll just put my phone here in case you need to call 911." As they are largely smart-mouthed teenagers, they tend to get the point. One of them just started jumping, and I'm just thrilled with her progress.

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      I always rode the crazies that nobody else wanted to ride and I always owned the horses that nobody wanted, but it gave me a heck of a seat!

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        As a young rider (16) I personally love a challenge, my only complaint about my current heart horse is that she doesn't buck enough. I am known to ride the difficult horses because I love to learn, even if that means falling. Spooks, bucks, bolts, a horse that is hot, I love them all! I'm considered the crazy girl at my barn because if a horse seems particularly hot, I love hopping on and getting my bucking fixed. Because of this, I have developed a pretty awesome seat, and while my confidence has taken hits a time or two, learning to gite back up from a buck is something that I treasure so much. Challenges excite me and while, yes, every once in a while, when I have a project I wish for less a challenge but the quirky, the hot, they are the ones I love the most!

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          Meh... it may have to do with the training/business goals of your barn and trainer.

                                          Growing up as the "I'll ride it... and try to improve it" kid, I only learned here (later) that this kind of education wasn't the usual kind. Apparently, being able to ride the green, the bad and the ugly doesn't teach you to sophistication you need to ride the uber-made show ones. (I got there anyway, but it took time.)

                                          So the trainer who makes those show riders and horses doesn't attract the kids who will want to ride The Quirker. It's just not part of the program that the kids are shown.

                                          Still, talented, hungry riders who can take direction are everywhere. Ask the HOs whom you respect for leads to kids (outside you barn?) who might like the ride.
                                          The armchair saddler
                                          Politically Pro-Cat

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