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Braiders Charging for leaving Braids in???

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  • #61
    Nonsense.
    Our barn contacts a braider in adance for each show and gives them a schedule of what horses need to be braided each day.
    Sometimes ( like the OP's case) a horse goes late in the day and the braids are let in overnight.
    We show in 5 zones. Never had a braider charge this sort of fee. If they did they would not be braiding for us. EVER.

    Great example of why showing is expensive. Too many people say ' that's how it's done' and pay crazy amounts.
    But perhaps the issue is up front communication regarding when each horse needs to be done.

    Nobody signs an agreement with a braider so you have no obligation to pay for a BS charge.

    Next time ask the braider for their TIN so you can report the payment to IRS ( including the $15 fee LOL).

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    • #62
      Originally posted by BeeHoney View Post
      Actually, the braider is the one who should have notified her long-time loyal customer of her new fee before charging it. "Hey Luminati, just to let you know I've started a new policy where I charge this fee for X." I think it is pretty standard business practice to notify your customers of new fees/charges.
      I tend to agree with this. The service provider should be the one worried about damaging a long term business relationship.

      I have not heard of such fees before.

      I also agree that the OP should have a talk with the braider about this!

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by S A McKee View Post
        Nonsense.
        Our barn contacts a braider in adance for each show and gives them a schedule of what horses need to be braided each day.
        Sometimes ( like the OP's case) a horse goes late in the day and the braids are let in overnight.
        We show in 5 zones. Never had a braider charge this sort of fee. If they did they would not be braiding for us. EVER.

        Great example of why showing is expensive. Too many people say ' that's how it's done' and pay crazy amounts.
        But perhaps the issue is up front communication regarding when each horse needs to be done.

        Nobody signs an agreement with a braider so you have no obligation to pay for a BS charge.

        Next time ask the braider for their TIN so you can report the payment to IRS ( including the $15 fee LOL).
        Love it.
        Live in the sunshine.
        Swim in the sea.
        Drink the wild air.

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        • #64
          Oh, anyone of my clients could "report" their payments to the IRS and no issues. I have to wonder at the integrity of one who assumes everyone else is underhanded in their business. Most likely projecting behavior onto others

          I used to get antsy about leaving braids in. People always say they want to leave them in and could I "just run by and check them in the morning". I used to, at no charge to check, until one horse managed to rub his mane so bad it looked like a stack of braided hay with bald patches. It was frighteningly awful!! I didn't have any time to fix it! I did try but it made me run late for two others, never again!

          Now, if they want to leave them in, go ahead. But no, I can't "check them", you are on your own and any issues, big or small, half-bald braid-y haystack mane going into the Classic, you can handle yourself

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          • #65
            To me there's a big difference between a "late cancellation" fee (fair) and a "leaving the braids in fee" (unfair). If you want to leave the braids in, that's your business. If they look good, you win. If they get ruined, your problem. But you should be free to make that decision without having to pay extra for the braids. UNLESS the braider has to do something extra to make the braids last multiple days (use different braiding materials/techniques etc., in which case I can understand an upcharge for the different braiding technique).
            ~Veronica
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            • #66
              If I am told ahead of time that a client intends to leave the braids in then I don't charge them. If I am expecting that money and budget my time expecting to braid an additional horse then yes, I charge. Especially if you don't have the decency to call me. Think of it as a cancellation fee.

              As for "checking" the braids. I only do that for people at my barn. And I charge them $5-$15 depending on how much I have to do.

              EDIT: My "leave-in" fee is only $5. I still only charge $45 even though the going rate in my area is $50-$55 and I braid as well as those that charge that much. So basically if you leave in I charge you what another braider would as opposed to my cheaper rate.
              Last edited by woodhillsmanhattan; Sep. 9, 2012, 11:35 PM.
              There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the
              inside of a man.

              -Sir Winston Churchill

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              • #67
                As a braider and an exhibitor, here is my opinion:

                As the braider, you win some and lose some. You always have drops and adds. You just roll with the punches. Next they will come up with a "late add" fee. If a horse has to be added to their list without 24 hr prior notice.

                Braiding costs are absurd anyways. In this economy, those braiders charging dumb fees will get what's coming and find themselves with no accounts in due time. Once word spreads, people will hesitate to use them, even if they are the best braider in the world. It doesn't change the color of the ribbon your horse gets and it just gets ripped out within hours.

                As an exhibitor that struggles to afford to show as it is, this really pisses me off. The OP should definitely not pay the "leave in" fee.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by tercot23 View Post
                  Braiding costs are absurd anyways.
                  As an exhibitor that struggles to afford to show as it is, this really pisses me off.
                  A really good option os for the exibitor to learn to braid their own horse. Then the cost is zero. I totally enjoyed braiding mine, until I got older and had 4-8 to do in an early morning.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by S A McKee View Post
                    Nonsense.
                    Our barn contacts a braider in adance for each show and gives them a schedule of what horses need to be braided each day.
                    Sometimes ( like the OP's case) a horse goes late in the day and the braids are let in overnight.
                    We show in 5 zones. Never had a braider charge this sort of fee. If they did they would not be braiding for us. EVER.

                    Great example of why showing is expensive. Too many people say ' that's how it's done' and pay crazy amounts.
                    But perhaps the issue is up front communication regarding when each horse needs to be done.

                    Nobody signs an agreement with a braider so you have no obligation to pay for a BS charge.

                    Next time ask the braider for their TIN so you can report the payment to IRS ( including the $15 fee LOL).
                    Just so long as you're not a hypocrite about this & don't get bent when your vet, farrier etc don't show with a couple hours notice after you've taken the day off to make an appointment - afterall it's the same principle ...

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Laurierace View Post
                      If she had turned down other business for that time slot because she thought she had to braid your horse she should be compensated somehow. Next time tell them your plans changed so they don't save the time.
                      Agree with Laurierace!
                      Aefvue Farm Ft.Lauderdale

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Andrew View Post
                        Agree with Laurierace!
                        Yes, but I think the OP did tell the braider as soon as she her plans changed (ie the evening before). Furthermore, the braider said she was *glad* to not have that one more horse to braid the next day.

                        Sounds like the OP needs to talk with the braider asap if for no other reason than to quiet the masses on COTH.

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                        • Original Poster

                          #72
                          Wow- I had no idea the fury this would bring up!! FWIW, I did talk with her and said I thought the leave in fee was unfair and I did not think I should have to pay it. She agreed. I wrote her a check for $190 and all is good in the world. I do know how to braid and do it myself when I don't go first thing in the morning, or have to come from work on a weekday. And for those who wanted to know, she did not touch or fix any braids from Fri night to Sat morning. I like the idea of a braiders price sheet and cancellation policy, but can say I have never seen either in the 30+ years I have been doing this.

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                          • #73
                            I'm just curious if she said anything about why it was charged? Like other clients "hanging her out" or something. Glad it was straightened out!
                            Come to the dark side, we have cookies

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                            • #74
                              Isn't it fun to wake up, check COTH and find that your thread exploded?
                              I think your situation resonated with a lot of people because there are so many extra fees tacked on to everything these days–not just in the horse world. It sounds like you've had a good relationship with the braider and I'm glad you worked it out.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Prime Time Rider View Post
                                I would love to have a business (or profession) in which I could charge for NOT providing a service. Assuming you gave her appropriate notice, I would say that she is way off base.
                                OK, did not read all of this but don't think 8pm when the Derby wrapped for a 3 to 6am time slot would be appropriate notice...or did she show up at 4am and see a note not to do him?

                                If the braider had him on the list and showed up to do him it's understandable to see a cancellation fee. My own long time braider has started doing this after she got stiffed finding empty stalls from early ship outs who did not share their change in plan or notes not to do them...long as you call them before they get to the barns at 3am, it's OK and they don't charge.

                                However any braider needs to disclose that up front and not surprise people with it.

                                I dunno if you have had to cancel any service appointments but it's not unusual to see a cancellation charge for last minute missed appointments.

                                BTW, I would have left the braids in too-poor horse needed some rest with classes doubling back like that more then he needed a new braid job.
                                When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                                The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

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                                • #76
                                  Originally posted by LTLFLDF View Post
                                  I can see a leave in fee if they have to fix any braids which they often have to when they are left in. Think of all of the braids messed up just by crest releases not to mention if they rub or ground shavings into their braids.
                                  I agree, this does make sense.



                                  Originally posted by Kryswyn View Post
                                  Please clarify. Did she take the braids out, then rebraid? Or just not touch them? People are confused.
                                  Not confusing at all, really. She clarified the page before your post.

                                  The horse's mane was not re-braided. Period.

                                  Comment


                                  • #77
                                    Originally posted by War Admiral View Post
                                    My doctor doesn't charge me for a canceled appointment.

                                    My braider shouldn't.
                                    My dance teachers DO charge for a cancellation, if I do it 24 hours or less before the scheduled time (ie, at short enough notice it's unlikely they'll fill that lesson slot. Meaning my deciding not to come at the last minute cost them their income.) Most will waive it for a real emergency-if my car's in a ditch, or I'm sick, they understand.

                                    However, I knew that was the policy when I paid for lessons. I know what lessons cost, what discounts I get for buying X number instead of Y, what the policies are if I cancel or if the pro cancels, how long they're good for, and what I get for my money (ie a 45-minute lesson or an hour? Am I guaranteed a particular teacher?) If the braider has a late-cancel fee, that needs to be UP FRONT, not a surprise on the bill. So would a leave-in fee. I completely understand the idea of having cancel fees, but it's shoddy and unprofessional to spring charges like that on a client.

                                    And of course it's all easily solved by having a grown-up conversation about it. I doubt the braider wants to lose business and I kind of doubt the OP REALLY wants to find a new one if they don't have to.
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                                    • #78
                                      Originally posted by vxf111 View Post
                                      To me there's a big difference between a "late cancellation" fee (fair) and a "leaving the braids in fee" (unfair). If you want to leave the braids in, that's your business. If they look good, you win. If they get ruined, your problem. But you should be free to make that decision without having to pay extra for the braids. UNLESS the braider has to do something extra to make the braids last multiple days (use different braiding materials/techniques etc., in which case I can understand an upcharge for the different braiding technique).
                                      This is the most logical post on this thread!
                                      http://www.tbhsa.com/index.html

                                      Originally Posted by JSwan
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                                      • #79
                                        I have been a professional braider for over 25 years, so let me tell you how this works.

                                        Most braiders have a fairly fixed relationship with the barns they braid for. I am still braiding for my very first customer from 1987. I braid for my regular customers everywhere they go. If I have customers at two different shows, I call another braider and arrange for them to cover my client. No matter where they go, or how many horses they take, I have made sure they have a braider.

                                        If all of my clients show up at the same horse show, I have more than I can do by myself, so I arrange to have someone help me. Sometimes, this is another braider at that show who is not fully booked.

                                        Other times, I have to call someone to specifically come and help me. Most braiders have a minimum amount they will do, depending on the amount of travel time and the hotel expenses. If I call someone who has to drive seven hours to get there, one night's work is not enough to make the trip worth while. So I have to give them a minimum seven or eight horses on both nights. If I have 20 horse the first night, it's all good. But if half those horses leave their braids in, the two of us are now sharing ten horses the second night. Braiders also don't make any money on the horses they have to give to other braiders. If I hire a braider to come and help me, they are making the same amount I am.

                                        I am extremely fortunate in that most of my regular customers take their braids out each day, except in rare or unusual circumstances. I have not felt the need to charge more for the few people who do. I won't, however, come and fix them. If you get a second day out of your braids, it is a bonus, not a guarantee.

                                        However, there are entire barns who leave their braids in for the second day. If you bring seven horses to a horse show and want them all braided for Saturday but none on Sunday, you are not a valuable customer, you are a problem that requires extra effort to fix. I would have to find someone willing to come in for one day to braid your horses. This extra charge has recently become popular in my area because so many people leave their horses braided the second day.

                                        I do think in Luminati's case, her braider should not have charged her. There are always day to day changes, both additions and subtractions. If a braider wants to charge extra for the horses who are consistently leaving their braids in for two days, that is a different matter.

                                        On a final note, good communication is the key from both sides. You, as a customer, cannot give me too much information. I think Luminati's braider should have told her about the extra charge beforehand. I think Luminati should have a conversation with her braider about the extra charges.
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                                        • #80
                                          "If you bring seven horses to a horse show and want them all braided for Saturday but none on Sunday, you are not a valuable customer, you are a problem that requires extra effort to fix."


                                          That's a bit harsh.

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