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Changes to the USHJA Derby program

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  • Changes to the USHJA Derby program

    From the COTH article today:

    I'm a little confused (I'm not entirely familiar with how it worked before). What exactly does this mean? Thoughts?
    Originally posted by rustbreeches
    [George Morris] doesn't always drink beer, but when he does, he prefers Dos Equis

  • #2
    Basically now you have to pay more $. A lot more $. This basically keeps an owner like myself out of the game. Oh well, glad we did the finals this year!


    • #3
      If the new entry fees will help fund the consolation class, then why is Moyer Farm sponsoring that class? I thought that's what sponsoring meant, that they would provide the awards (including trophy/cooler/monetary payments or whatever).


      • #4
        Good lord, $750 for a 10k class? That's almost twice the cost of doing a 10k class in the jumpers...


        • #5
          Here is how I interpret this press release:

          Entry fee for the final will be $750 instead of "free" for the championship (finals). This is a 100k class. Qualifying Derby fees at A shows will not change other than the 200 dollar nomination fee required to be eligible for the championships (beginning June 2nd 2013).

          Now the one thing I don't understand is if the date of the championships (finals) isn't changing from the 3rd week in August, if you qualify for the championship, the qualifying period ends in November but you don't ride until the FOLLOWING august???
          My adventures as a working rider


          • #6
            I'm not clear as to why we need a consolation class or why the exhibitors should fund it. The thing is expensive enough as it is.
            There was another thread about the consolation class that discussed the issues with the horses in 21st -30th place not getting any prize money but the horses from position 30 to 60 would be able to compete for more cash than horses that made the cut but not the final top 20 placings.
            That seems wrong somehow.

            If the program is having problems with funding then look at what the causes are, don't keep making it more expensive.
            The Hampton Classic had a 50K derby with a 1K entry fee. Didn't get a lot of entries for a show that size.I'm sure the class was sponsored in some fashion but even at 1K there weren't enough horses to cover the prize money by way of entry fees. More expenses, then less exhibitors who will participate.

            USHJA is promoting a Pre Green futurity type program for next year with a reasonable fee base for nomination and entries ( purses are much smaller,can run at small shows). This seems like a better model to bring in more entries.

            Supershorty brings up a good point. In the Jumper division entry fees are limited to 3% of prize money in a 25K or greater GP. In hunters the cap is 10% for any classic with, I think, $500 or more.
            Fan of Sea Accounts


            • #7
              Why would you want a regional award? Its not like this classic is a division? My only guess is they want to limit the field if you have to pay to play. $750 plus $200 nominating fee seems like quite the jump from free. Like someone said earlier if someone puts up the money to sponsor the consolidation class why do they need more money? Ushja logic is just "short bus special"!!!
              I want to be like Barbie because that bitch has everything!


              • #8
                So this price change to $750.00 is only for finals not the qualifying classes at each horse show?


                • #9
                  Moyer Farm sponsored the consolation class for the 2012 finals. From the description of the changes , I gather that they will not do it again, which is why they will charge a $750.00 fee for the championship class.


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by svf86 View Post
                    So this price change to $750.00 is only for finals not the qualifying classes at each horse show?
                    Yes plus you now need to record the horse with the Hunter Derby in addition to the usual USEF and USHJA horse recording fees.
                    Fan of Sea Accounts


                    • #11
                      I doubt they have it all that figured out at the moment. Most likely a few ideas are on the table and have been voted on, and now they have to figure the rest out to make it all fit together.

                      In the grand scheme of things, a $200 yearly nomination fee for the program isn't all that terrible, and a $750 entry fee for the finals is reasonable---if you enter a $25,000 grand prix, the entry fee is near $750 in some places. Now hopefully the add-back part of the new entry fee will go towards the real derby finals instead of the consolation class. While I don't think a consolation class is a bad idea if implemented correctly (i.e. what was being discussed before about not paying out the bottom placings in the real derby but then paying for the next 12 after 30, etc), the money really has to go back into the derby. Bottom line---the derby finals doesn't have enough prize money at $100,000. Or $150,000. HITS made sure of that when they decided to give away ridiculous amounts of money for 3'. So if USHJA increases the prize money and then has an add-back included, then the derby finals might get a little closer to offering adequate prize money for the caliber of competition they are trying to offer.

                      My idea was a small add-back on every derby entry fee all year from everyone. I don't think that the select few that decide to play at the finals should be the only ones that are paying into the increased prize money (and that would also eliminate the entry fee at the finals). The USHJA would likely raise a lot more money for the finals if every derby had $25 or $50 paid into the pot for each horse. Kind of like the way WCHR works in FL for the night class.


                      • #12
                        [QUOTE=perfecta11;6524324My idea was a small add-back on every derby entry fee all year from everyone. I don't think that the select few that decide to play at the finals should be the only ones that are paying into the increased prize money (and that would also eliminate the entry fee at the finals). The USHJA would likely raise a lot more money for the finals if every derby had $25 or $50 paid into the pot for each horse. Kind of like the way WCHR works in FL for the night class.[/QUOTE]

                        There already is a $50 a horse fee that has to be paid to USHJA for each Derby. That isn't billed as a separate item to the exhibitor but it comes out of the entry fees and the show pays the fee directly to USHJA. Are you proposing another $50 fee on top of the existing one?
                        I see your point about sharing the expense over the course of the year as opposed to just the participants in the finals.
                        Fan of Sea Accounts


                        • #13
                          I think the people entering the Finals should pay for it..not the people who are entering Derbys locally. If I have a horse qualified, I will pay the $750 to enter the class.
                          I don't see the point of a consolation derby. Either you qualify for the Finals or you don't. (wouldn't it be tempting to drop a great horse down just to have a shot at the prize with an easier group ?)

                          I hate to see too many additional on fees at shows, at some point the shows themselves will lose entrys due to the costs getting ridiculous. Pretty soon people will be looking for other ways to compete and skip the "A" shows altogether.
                          "The Desire to Win is worthless without the Desire to Prepare"

                          It's a "KILT". If I wore something underneath, it would be a "SKIRT".


                          • #14
                            My .02
                            The qualifying criteria to enter the Finals/Championship should be higher then winning $500.

                            Finals should be free to enter. If you need more points or money or 'whatever" to go into the Finals you've probably alreay paid a pretty penny in entry fees.

                            What was nice about the consolodation round was that so many Ammies and Jr's got to do a second round. However I still don't like the concept of the consolodation round.

                            Agree on the timing of the Championship..not sure how it can remain in August.


                            • #15
                              If you do not want to pay to enter the Finals and somebody else does not want to pay a nomination fee annually or an add on fee to support the Finals with each class? How would you pay for it to run and fund the prizes?

                              Also...a class sponsor may not pay for the whole shebang so it's not got that much to do with the basic issues around paying for it and funding the awards.

                              Anyway, it's just a proposal out there on the table for discussion. Please let them know of your opinion as members of USHJA-they are asking for input here. But try to be constructive and offer siggestions of where that money can come from.
                              When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                              The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.


                              • #16
                                F8 - Perhaps a dumb question, but exactly how does one voice an opinion?
                                My adventures as a working rider



                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Nickelodian View Post
                                  F8 - Perhaps a dumb question, but exactly how does one voice an opinion?
                                  Call or write. Either your regional/zone commitee members or the main commitee. They are working on more changes too so if you want to comment, nows the time. They claim to be more receptive (I know, I know...) to membership.

                                  It's not a proposal but an ammendment to the class rules with more to come.
                                  When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                                  The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.


                                  • #18
                                    I think the Derby Championship can be anytime of the year. The qualifiying period, for the one year is 18 months long in order to align with USEF HOY points.

                                    Just like Devon or Indoors the qualifying period will be adjusted to the date of the Championship. Not really a big deal or diffucult to understand.

                                    However I do think the name change from "finals" to Championship is significant.


                                    • #19
                                      I'd like to see the usualy pro's limited to one or two horses. To be honest; how fair is it to all of the other hardworking (but financially limited) competitors to have to compete against the same group of pros on their 5-10 different horses, EACH. By the fifth horse- each person likely has the course's bugs worked out and the chances of winning are that much better. I stopped watching the hunter derbies because I got tired of seeing the same people in the ring and the same group of horses every single time. It didn't seem like much of a competition.


                                      • Original Poster

                                        I don't have much of an opinion on the scheduling of it, but I do think it doesn't make much sense to charge money for the consolation round when there is a sponsor. It would seem that would discourage the number of entries (maybe that was their goal?).
                                        Last edited by jlphilli; Aug. 29, 2012, 06:57 PM.
                                        Originally posted by rustbreeches
                                        [George Morris] doesn't always drink beer, but when he does, he prefers Dos Equis