• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Auto-release in hunters??

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Auto-release in hunters??

    So I am working with a green medium pony hunter and we aren't jumping anything all that big, but he is one of the more difficult ponies to ride through a course....he doesn't have a lot of confidence and will refuse a x-rail he jumped the day before. So basically, I have to hold him under me to THE very last second before the fence or else he will run out or dirty stop. However, he has a gorgeous round hunter jump, but won't execute it correctly unless I give his mouth some 'space' (but by doing so I risk him refusing the fence all together) I mean I am not yanking and or balancing on his mouth...just simply keeping him in my control. So yesterday I tried doing an auto-release and he was VERY happy with it. I could hold him under my all the way up to the fence and let him have the freedom he wants for his mouth, without losing too much control for the next fence. But I do know auto releases aren't too popular in the hunter world and some frown upon them, because it indicates your horse needs too much control, where as a loopy crest release shows off how your hunter can do the course with little help from the rider.
    What are your opinions on auto releases??

  • #2
    I ride my greenie in a short release/auto release. Granted...we are only doing very local shows but she usually pins quite nicely and jumps beautifully.

    Comment


    • #3
      I love auto release.... I used to do the loopy crest but with my greenie, I learned the hard way....

      *Do not forget rule #2- Don't trust that he/she will jump...* Or else the evil dropped shoulder comes, I fall on neck sideways, horsey bucks you off since she thinks you are a cougar clingy to her neck. Ha

      I think hunter judges are coming to appreciate the auto release, I see alot of great riders doing it and pinning high.
      It really helps greenies with balance and really helped my mare learn to use her neck and back. The connection seems to recycle the energy back to the hindquarters and results in a rounder jump.

      Maybe I am crazy but unless, you are jabbing them in the mouth I think a light contact is good.
      http://dotstreamming.blogspot.com/

      Comment


      • #4
        Auto-releases are a refined skill when perfected. Why not use it at all times if you are able to? Its looks better in the Eq, Hunter, and Jumper ring and arguably more effective ( and your case just proves that). I have never heard of someone not doing an auto-release for the fear of someone thinking the horse is difficult. To me it just speaks " effective/balanced rider".

        I say go for it.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by EqRider112 View Post
          But I do know auto releases aren't too popular in the hunter world and some frown upon them, because it indicates your horse needs too much control, where as a loopy crest release shows off how your hunter can do the course with little help from the rider.
          What are your opinions on auto releases??
          Seriously? THIS is the reason it is not used?
          Good grief....
          An auto release requires skill -- TPF hunter said it well.
          Proud to have two Takaupa Gold line POAs!
          Takaupas Top Gold
          Gifts Black Gold Knight

          Comment


          • #6
            [QUOTE=EqRider112;6499577]But I do know auto releases aren't too popular in the hunter world QUOTE]

            Holy cow! You dont see them because people cant do them!

            You should strive for the auto release!

            Comment


            • #7
              The only time auto releases are frowned upon is when done incorrectly and the rider is hanging on the mouth (lol, often mimicking a water skier). Judges just don't care so long as you get the most out of your horse.

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                Lori- those aren't my beliefs, but what I have heard from some trainers/judges/riders
                I know GM is a fan of the auto-release so that is a good enough reason for me to give 'em a try

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by hntrjmprpro45 View Post
                  The only time auto releases are frowned upon is when done incorrectly and the rider is hanging on the mouth (lol, often mimicking a water skier). Judges just don't care so long as you get the most out of your horse.
                  Water skier---- Love it! and So true when I think about it.
                  http://dotstreamming.blogspot.com/

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by EqRider112 View Post
                    Lori- those aren't my beliefs, but what I have heard from some trainers/judges/riders
                    I know GM is a fan of the auto-release so that is a good enough reason for me to give 'em a try
                    Maybe the trainers dont know how to teach it

                    The riders dont know how to do it

                    I dont know about the judges....that part puzzles me.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      In Hunter Seat Equitation, George Morris clearly states that anything LESS than an auto-release or "release out of hand" is a merely a learning tool for beginners; the definition of an advanced rider is using the auto-release exclusively!

                      The problem is that most people never have the lower leg and security to "graduate" from using a crest release as a balance crutch.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        People just don't know how to do the auto release. I have seen on that judge my ride website where people have told posters that the auto release was wrong! I made sure to correct them that the auto release was the advanced way of riding.
                        Derby Lyn Farms Website

                        Derby Lyn Farms on Facebook!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Or... people know how to do an auto release and choose not to. I know how to do one and have known for a long time, but I rarely, if ever, use it. I don't think it's the be-all, end-all release that some people think it is.

                          ^Derby Lyn, a lot of people post pictures on that website with releases that are incorrectly done automatics, which (IMO) can be awful on a horse's mouth.
                          http://www.youtube.com/user/supershorty628
                          Proudly blogging for The Chronicle of the Horse!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            It seems to me that when we talk about the AR often it is often expressed as some strategic, planned release. That it can somehow be a bad thing or that there are better releases for certain circumstances.

                            The reason it is called automatic is because it requires not thought, intervention, and is dictated by the horse.

                            You cannot do an AR if your balance is not good; core, seat, leg, etc., and it is almost impossible to negatively impact the horse using the automatic release, as when all the aforementioned are are correct because you do not have the leverage without changing one or all of the those same elements to generate the power to counter what the influence the horses jump has on your hands arms and shoulders.

                            In the hunter ring there is a lot showmanship going on, which has nothing to do with the release. If you horse jumps with its knees to its eyeballs, and is a rocking horse between fences they will be successful regardless of the type of release you use.

                            The idea is to maintain light consistent contact between and over fences without using the neck to support that contact in any way.

                            Some GP riders have down played the AR, but I believe this is more of a riding culture argument than a release argument as they all employ the same model, whether it is the NA style that is very obvious, or the WE style that looks more like a crest release, neither is employing the horses neck as a support base. Frankly the type of release being employed can be hard to discern because it is controlled by the horse, and sometimes they made need to use all of their neck sometimes not as much, and consequently the horse will position the riders hands where they need to be. Over a water jump a horse may jump fairly flat, which may leave the riders hands in a almost crest release position, over a big oxer the horse may be very round and move the riders hands well down the neck which we associate with a classic auto release, but the bottom line is that it is the horses jump that really positions the hands, the rider just needs to keep from using the neck as support.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by EqRider112 View Post
                              Lori- those aren't my beliefs, but what I have heard from some trainers/judges/riders
                              I know GM is a fan of the auto-release so that is a good enough reason for me to give 'em a try
                              I say if you are advanced enough to jump out of hand, then forget the people who don't/can't/won't.
                              I stick with the old riding style of GM's generation as the foundation that I learned as a child.

                              Hauwse, BRILLIANT post!!!
                              Proud to have two Takaupa Gold line POAs!
                              Takaupas Top Gold
                              Gifts Black Gold Knight

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Hauwse View Post
                                Frankly the type of release being employed can be hard to discern because it is controlled by the horse, and sometimes they made need to use all of their neck sometimes not as much, and consequently the horse will position the riders hands where they need to be. Over a water jump a horse may jump fairly flat, which may leave the riders hands in a almost crest release position, over a big oxer the horse may be very round and move the riders hands well down the neck which we associate with a classic auto release, but the bottom line is that it is the horses jump that really positions the hands, the rider just needs to keep from using the neck as support.
                                This brings up a good point. Your hand position over a fence doesn't necessarily fit perfectly into one of the three types (long, short, auto). There are so many variations and possibilities that can be "correct" depending on the situation. Positions over a jump won't be "cookie cutter" since horses never jump *exactly* the same every time, nor do any two horses jump exactly alike.

                                My second rant for the day... I don't care for the term "automatic release". The point is to maintain contact over the jump not release the contact. I really agree with Greg Best on this topic. The jump is merely another canter stride which should ideally have contact just like any other canter stride. Gasp, no "release" is necessary. In fact GM will even talk about "rating" your horse in the air (a subtle and advanced maneuver for jumpers that spend too much time in the air jumping across).

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I like following hand better then auto release. It is one tool in a riders kit of many different releases PROPERLY executed depending on the situation. PROPER trainers teach all of the releases PROPERLY when the riders are ready for them. Otherwise they are simply bad trainers producing bad riders.

                                  Here I was just thinking we were going to get through the summer without our annual summer auto relaease trainwreck. Time for a "back in the day" and "that's why I don't show Hunters anymore, everybody else rides bad"...

                                  I realize OP did not intend it but I am going to put some wine on ice should this follow the usual, annual track.
                                  When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                                  The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    The whole "release debate" has always confused me. Our job as riders, especially Hunter riders, is to not interfere with our horses natural ability as much as possible. I have pictures of myself that rival Jimmy Kohns picture in Hunt Seat Equitation... probably because I was riding with him at the time... but I also have pictures of my hands as far up the horses neck as possible, with zero contact. My mare now doesn't want or need anyone in her mouth. She will accept contact, but if there is minimal contact and she can stretch at her own will over the fence, she bascules BEAUTIFULLY. I've done this with the majority of my jumping horses since I've been riding her, and I've seen improvements in all of them.

                                    Comment

                                    Working...
                                    X