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How important is promotion? (of a good round)

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  • #21
    Originally posted by laurel3644 View Post
    I know a judge who told me once that she had a very large older adult hunter under saddle class. She said it was so frustrating that she pinned the one with the most expensive jewelry. I'm pretty sure she was kidding but that gives you an idea of the pressure they get put under.
    I imagine that that also has to do with the fact that in a large class at a good show, they're might not be a clear winner. You can have 10 fantastic movers and the dividing factor might come down to something incredibly petty. It's not like the judge can measure that Horse A flicks his toes 1/4" further than Horse B, but of course some people want to blame that on politics, when in reality, judges are only human.

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    • #22
      Wow - Is that all it takes to get a ribbon in a hunter class....I gotta try that....

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      • #23
        Originally posted by QM2 View Post
        I agree that it shouldn't influence in a positive way.

        However, turn it around, I was working for a top trainer whose student put in an unbelievable trip in the large ponies at Devon. Very obviously won it. After the final lead change, the crowd went WILD!

        The pony let out a HUGE buck cleared the top rail of the ring fence. Kid stayed on and finished courtesy circle as if nothing happened and did not ribbon.

        So the whooping can have an opposite effect than you think it will. Ever since, I have been a very conservative whooper.
        We had something similar happen with a short stirrup rider, except she didn't stay on.
        After that, we were all very quiet until she was out of the ring.

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        • #24
          Try going to a hunter show with a bunch of saddle seat peeps. They started SCREAMING every time I passed the judge. I mean, they went NUTS, saddle-seat style.

          Everyone else at the horse show was completely confused... Including my horse, who practically bolted off once!

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          • #25
            A mare in our barn used to buck in the final courtesy circle if we clapped or whoo-ed. So we did two things...we did a small golf clap at the horse shows. And we whooped it up at home until she got used to it. She's much better now.
            ~ Citizens for a Kinder, Gentler COTH...our mantra: Be nice. ~

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            • #26
              Am I the only one amused at the pearl clutching and indignation brought on by the suggestion that perhaps hunter judging is less than objective? Maybe it's just because I don't ride hunters anymore.
              "Absent a correct diagnosis, medicine is poison, surgery is trauma and alternative therapy is witchcraft" A. Kent Allen
              http://www.etsy.com/shop/tailsofglory

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              • #27
                Oh yea- saddlebred peeps are notoriously noisy- whooping & yelling-- like those horses need to be fired up any more than they are !!

                Lots of fun though ... but a total culture shock when you have always done hunters ( crossing over to the dark side as my trainer puts it )

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by JackieBlue View Post
                  Am I the only one amused at the pearl clutching and indignation brought on by the suggestion that perhaps hunter judging is less than objective? Maybe it's just because I don't ride hunters anymore.


                  I don't think that anyone is suggesting that the hunter judging is perfectly objective, merely that "promotion" is not one of the subjective factors that helps improve a score.

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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by flash1 View Post
                    Wow - Is that all it takes to get a ribbon in a hunter class....I gotta try that....
                    I did try it, did not work.

                    My own trainer had to leave for a family emergency. They arranged for one of the very BBBBBBBBBNts in the Hunter universe to sub. He took me to the in gate, stood right there clearly going over the course with me, watched the (very nice) round and whooped and clapped along with his little entourage of grooms assistants and followers. Some in the stands also clapped, probably thought I was somebody.

                    Still did not get anything.

                    So it does NOT work.
                    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

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                    • #30
                      I don't think the promotion is so much for the JUDGE as it is for the other people around (spectators, other clients, other trainers) so they know-- that GOOD horse or GOOD rides? She's with US. If you want to have a horse that nice/ride that well, come ride with US.
                      ~Veronica
                      "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
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                      • #31
                        Originally posted by SnicklefritzG View Post
                        I sat behind Alison Firestone a couple of years ago when she was judging the Eq finals at WIHS (along with a couple other people). She was marking her card as she went, with shorthand and symbols for every fence.
                        As a judge, one MUST have a system like this, or very close to this, in order to keep up with things. If you have a three horse class - one bay, one chestnut, one grey - you might be able to remember who did what. Otherwise you have to use a system.

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                        • #32
                          Isnt that why judges have scorecards or whatever...they jot done little notes...chipped in, missed lead etc...and come up with a score??I dont normally ride hunters ( jumpers or eventing) but have done a few hunter local shows with my older guy and the judges always seem to be writing something...

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                          • #33
                            Hah! Did anyone watch the men's synchronized diving the other night? NBC caught the US coach saying something to the effect of "if they do well, really whoop it up" - I didn't quite catch it until the announcer was like "interesting tactic there." I would think that, like at a horse show, by the time the audience is clapping the judge's know how they're going to score, but it's interesting to think that even coaches in other sports think the applause meter might have an effect

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                            • #34
                              Well, unlike the hunters diving scoring takes place AFTER the dive takes place.

                              Though, as a tactic I think that whooping and cheering helps athletes earn better scores because they feel encouraged and supported and will perform better because of that. Obviously the dive or hunter round is finished, but in a competition there is usually more than one dive or round. Other athletes on the same team might also feel encouraged and perform better in upcoming dives.

                              I don't see anything wrong with trainers cheering and encouraging riders to cheer for one another. For many people part of the fun of showing is going with friends and feeling like you are a part of something and it is very nice to be cheered on by other people that you ride with. Cheering others on is good sportsmanship. I don't think it is about trying to impress the judge to get a better score.

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                              • #35
                                Originally posted by BeeHoney View Post
                                Well, unlike the hunters diving scoring takes place AFTER the dive takes place.

                                Though, as a tactic I think that whooping and cheering helps athletes earn better scores because they feel encouraged and supported and will perform better because of that. Obviously the dive or hunter round is finished, but in a competition there is usually more than one dive or round. Other athletes on the same team might also feel encouraged and perform better in upcoming dives.
                                I think what I saw was for the final dive for the medal, but still - good point! I'm riding in my first show in 20 years years tom. and told my husband he'd better cheer for me, even if I miss half the fences because there's no way I'll go in for my next class if he doesn't So I can def. see that!

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                                • #36
                                  Darn it, that is why I did not get all those ribbons. My darn trainer was not the make a scene type. If only I knew this was how to get ribbons before now I would have switched trainers.

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                                  • #37
                                    I remember once when I was a little girl, my barn was at a horse show and one of the older girls was riding in a few eq classes. She had a few good rounds where my trainer whooped it up and then one of the rounds was less than stellar. My non-horsey mother whooped and my trainer turned around and said to her, "That was NOT whoop-worthy. If I whoop, then you can whoop."
                                    LOL. Really nothing to do with the thread, but it was so funny to me at the time.
                                    My CANTER cutie Chip and IHSA shows!
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                                    • #38
                                      ^^^^ Hilarious!

                                      Perhaps there is an unmet need for a business! This could be a great way for college kids to make money over the summer. They could hire themselves out as 'whoopers'. If you can mimic ae BNT's particular 'whoop', you can charge more for your services.

                                      There are many, many reasons to whoop. Maybe the round was beautiful. Maybe they had an unfortunate incident at a prior horse show and are making a comback. Maybe it's their first time in a more challenging division. Maybe horse or rider are coming back from an injury. Like vxf says, maybe it's to say 'hey, that person is one of OURS!' But it's probably NOT to try to influence the judge.
                                      ~ Citizens for a Kinder, Gentler COTH...our mantra: Be nice. ~

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                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by ElisLove View Post
                                        So in other words the question is "Will the judge place the horse with the most whoops cause obviously the rider has a wot of fwiends and should totally win cause dey popuwar?"
                                        Seems kinda silly to me. I can't imagine spectators clapping or not clapping to have any part in a judges scoring.
                                        Its not the spectators who are whooping and clapping, its the BNT's, at least that was how it was in the days when GM, Ronnie Mutch and Victor Hugo-Vidal were the ones doing it. And back in those days I think it had a lot to do with the judging. I don't go to many shows any more so I don't know how important it is or isn't anymore, I think now they probably mark their scorecards a lot faster than in the old days.

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                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by To the MAX View Post
                                          My non-horsey mother whooped and my trainer turned around and said to her, "That was NOT whoop-worthy. If I whoop, then you can whoop."


                                          "Not whoop-worthy." Love that term.

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