• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.



Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

At the end of the day..(part 2)

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • At the end of the day..(part 2)

    Amateur status is based on the honor system.

    You can try to legislate it to the nth degree times infinity and there will still be people that lie, cheat, compete as shamateurs, and just don't really care.

    Then there will be people that are convinced that if grandma Betsy bakes Suzy q Ammy a pie for riding "Should be Glue", and grandma Betsy's pies are award winning at the kendall county fair, they are clearly accepting remuneration that is more than a token of appreciation.

    There has not been a time in the 12 (EEK 12!!) years that I have opened up these boards and have not seen at least one topic on Amateur status.

    I am a working ammy. Will I ever have a so called "level" playing field with those that are independently wealthy? No. Will I ever have a so called "level" playing field with those that are naturally more talented than I? No. Can I do my best and bust my butt and ride as much as I can? Yes (but only if I don't get paid to do so).

    To me, the rules are pretty clear, however as all rules that have ever existed since the beginning of time, they are also open to interpretation. My typical approach is that people are generally good, people generally want to do the right thing, and if someone says they are an ammy, 99% of the time, they are. Maybe that's a pretty positive outlook, but hey, if they're cheating and I somehow manage to pull together 8 nice jumps and beat them, then all the more power to me.

    IMHO making more rules will only make the cheaters cheat in a different way.

    Remember. Amateur status is based on the honor system.
    Last edited by Nickelodian; Jul. 10, 2012, 01:44 PM.
    My adventures as a working rider


  • #2
    A fine perspective indeed.

    There are a million ways to be dishonest, and only one way to be honest. More rules won't change that.

    And what a wonderful follow up to "at the end of the day 1" which is still one of my favorite threads


    • #3
      Here. Here.

      and frankly the rule is pretty easy to understand. Life isn't based on fairness so go out there and do your best with what you have.


      • #4
        Originally posted by Blinky View Post
        Here. Here.

        and frankly the rule is pretty easy to understand. Life isn't based on fairness so go out there and do your best with what you have.
        First of all, it's "Hear, hear!"

        Like you and the OP, I understand the rule because I understand it's intention.

        FWIW, I'll always defend a governing body's *attempt to legislate fairness*. That's because it is irrational to sign up to play in an optional and expensive kind of competition where cheating is acknowledged and allowed.

        If you have enough nobility and money such that you don't care if you spent, say, $500 to take a shot at winning in your division.... would you still do that if it cost you, say, $2,000 for the week?

        And when you asked your family (or yourself) to pay $$,$$$ for the next horse rather than $,$$$ because you felt you needed that quality of animal in order to make you maybe,kinda,sorta competitive against the shammies (because, remember, you are paying the same money to feed and show the winner as the loser), can you really justify the expense?

        I want a level playing field. I don't want to pay to lose to cheaters because other people trot out aphorisms like "Life Ain't Fair). I can only assume that they don't mind paying to lose.

        I'll settle for a governing body that attempts to limit cheating. But it bloody well needs to do that or what's it worth? Like the OP, I really want to know that my colleagues in this sport and competitors want a level playing field as well. That's where it starts and ends-- with the rank-and-file.
        The armchair saddler
        Politically Pro-Cat


        • #5
          Can I just say I love these threads because, well, "shammies" and "shamateurs" are two of the best words ever!


          • #6
            Originally posted by SunBelle View Post
            Can I just say I love these threads because, well, "shammies" and "shamateurs" are two of the best words ever!
            That makes two of us! Although I would never want the word used in reference to myself
            Trying a life outside of FEI tents and hotel rooms.


            • #7
              ^^^^^hahaha agreed!


              • #8
                Gee MVP thanks for the grammar lesson.

                Where did I say I'm not interested in a level playing field? However you look at if Life isn't fair. Someone will ALWAYS have a nicer horse, or be a better rider, or have more money.

                I'm a working adult that budgets for my shows, plans for my time off, and has the nicest horse I can afford. I'm going to go and do the best I can every time against the other adults that (I think) are also out to do the same.

                I just don't believe that the majority of riders are out there to screw the system. You can't legislate every single person in everything they do. So yes I still think the rules that we have do a pretty good job.


                • #9

                  Don't mean to pick on you, but I never understand why anyone would argue against a rigorous effort to keep a level playing field simply because it was hard to legislate. Were the rules required worse than the problem they would cure, then, yes, I suppose there's an argument for letting this stuff slip.

                  But the harder we Average Joe ammies work to pay-n-play, the more we need a governing body-- and a membership-- that protects us.

                  Some of that too, I suspect, comes from the general impression that cheating won't be tolerated. That stops plenty of would-be cheaters prior to any wrong-doing.

                  Oh, and last bit of fussiness. IIRC, picking the right word ain't a grammar issue. It's "syntax."

                  Take what you like and leave the rest.
                  The armchair saddler
                  Politically Pro-Cat


                  • Original Poster

                    Actually, from my POV, my governing body is doing absolutely nothing to legislate the amateur rule. Thus my point of....Amateur status is based on the honor system. They can create rule upon rule upon rule, but until someone is willing to stick their neck out and protest a fellow rider, it's all for naught. And even if they DO protest. The burden of proof is on the protester, not the protestee.

                    So let's say that I protest a fellow rider, I have to somehow prove that that rider is accepting remuneration for something that is illicit per the ammy rules. That can become both sticky, and politically charged. As a jo-schmo decidedly un-connected, and un-cool average A/O rider, what would that benefit me other than a scarlet letter on my chest for the next several years?

                    A legislate-able rule is hard and defined and clear. The drug rule is an example of a legislate-able rule (which people constantly try to get around). Amateur status and all of its current flavor of a-z is pretty much impossible to enforce. How do you define "token of appreciation?" How would the USEF ever know if someone was slipped a 20 after each ride? There is just absolutely no way to "enforce" it. That's why it's the HONOR system. You either trust your fellow riders or you go home and create the black trak over 12 division and play by yourself.

                    There is honestly no way to justify the expense of horses. Level playing field does not justify the expense. Really nothing other than my joy of walking out of a 30++ division of horses with a blue ribbon justifies the expense. Those are some damned expensive pieces of nylon.

                    When I read post upon post of how to fix the ammy rule, or questions on if this or that goes against the ammy rule, it really makes me think that people are missing the fact that no matter how much you try to legislate it some are going to cheat, others are not, and do the best you can with what you have. If I had a billion dollars to spend on a horse to find "the winner" I can guarantee you that someone else would have a billion + 1.
                    My adventures as a working rider



                    • #11
                      I've taken away four things from my life in the real world and as a working ammy:

                      1. There are people who ride flat out better than me and have better horses. Sometimes they are wealthier than me, sometimes they are not. Sometimes they ride a made horses, sometimes they make up their own horses. A very small amount of them are shamateurs. I still got outrode. 2 bad, so sad, sux 2 b me.

                      2. Rules can always be improved and clarified and we always need to be ready to adapt to meet changing circumstances and be diligent about glaring loopholes as we find them.

                      3. Cheaters will still always find a way to cheat.

                      4. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't be diligent about #2 and it also means I need to accept that #1 still applies in a majority of situations.
                      Your crazy is showing. You might want to tuck that back in.


                      • #12
                        DMK nailed it.

                        To me, the point of this thread was about item #1 rather than more analysis of the amature rule.