• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Would re-legalization of Ace stop Magnesium deaths?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #81
    Originally posted by Arelle
    Originally posted by Xanthoria
    Several solutions have been offered: turnout facilities at shows, a more relaxed attitude in judges towards friskiness, and a change of mentality in horse owners towards the real needs of an animal the does best with lots of space and movement every day.
    Yes - but all of these things take time. And what about facilities that can't put in turnout facilities? How do we define "real needs" in a one size fits all - at what point do you say the horse is a more advanced ride versus being unsuitable for the job?
    So they take time and facilities need to accommodate. Shrug. It's better than just "oh well can't be bothered - drug the horses" IMO.

    As far as "can x horse be trained and managed to suit y rider?" well that's up to the rider and trainer to determine. But at least give proper horsemanship a shot before you throw your hands in the air and drug the horses.

    Originally posted by Arelle
    Originally posted by Xanthoria
    Showing is not a right. If you can't afford to ride a horse enough to safely show it this year, stay home and learn how so you can show next year.
    Do you show? Where? On what level? The industry at large is made up of amateurs who want to learn to ride in order to show. Do you really think this will go over well?
    I'm an eventer at Training level hoping to go Prelim, not that it matters - unless you're saying that if I don't show hunters I can't comment on horse management? I reject that argument obviously.

    Do I think it will "go over well" that people will need to become more proficient riders and less reliant on drugs? I expect those who drug horses will be annoyed. And I don't...uh... care.

    Originally posted by Arelle
    Originally posted by Xanthoria
    If you need multiple lessons per week to ride a horse safely, perhaps you're not ready to show.
    Even below you say (and I'll quote) that you need to be committed to riding a few times a week. When the majority of people ride once per week, you end up with riders who don't progress as fast but still want to go show. Your answer will be stay home - see above.
    As you quoted me I said people will need to ride a few times a week. That's different to taking multiple lessons a week. I stand by my argument: A proficient rider will learn how to ride a frisky horse with a few rides a week. A rider who needs a lot of help to get there should stay home until they are proficient.

    Originally posted by Arelle
    Originally posted by Xanthoria
    If the choice is drugging horses or losing people from the sport, then yes - let's lose those people who feel drugging is a better choice, vs managing their horse appropriately.
    In the long term, I agree. But what about now? What can we do NOW to stop it? It can't all come crashing down at once. That will fail.
    Do you mean that stopping people using drugs = the end of the horse show world, zombie apocalypse style? I doubt it! What'll really happen is people will get caught drugging, either take their toys home and leave the sandpit or wise up and set a better example. No drugs = thinking caps on: bingo! I'll ride the horse better and turn that sucker out for a few/dozen/23 hours a day. General uptick in quality of riding, etc etc.

    And this will happen not through pronouncements by the government on loudspeakers and death threats, but gradually, organically, by people talking and sharing opinions as we are today. Peer pressure to stop drugging will get results, as it does on the playground and the boardroom and all other aspects of life

    Originally posted by Arelle
    Originally posted by Xanthoria
    You don't need to ride a horse every day to make is sane - you need to be committed to riding a few times a week and ensuring your horse has proper turnout and exercise the rest of the time, if you can't/won't keep it in pasture.
    Agreed.
    Phew!

    Originally posted by Arelle
    Originally posted by Xanthoria
    Could be people are quitting because of their disgust over the drugging and expense?
    I very, very much doubt that is the or even A reason 99% of people stop showing.
    I think it could very well be a reason - I wouldn't be involved in a sport where drugging was the norm, especially in my peer ground, and I'm not (eventer.)

    I am sure there are other reasons - being nickel and dimed to death over lunging and Ace shots comes to mind...

    Originally posted by Arelle
    Originally posted by Xanthoria
    I don't think the industry is going to die if we stop people drugging their horses, or tell them to woman up and learn to ride. Anyone who wants ribbons handed to them on a platter is just going to pay someone else to do the turnout/pasture/hacks for them, just as they currently pay someone to lunge and Ace their horses.
    Most already do pay their trainers to ride/turnout/warm up at shows?
    Those who drugged before might have to start using alternate means (hack, pasture) is what I meant.

    Originally posted by Arelle
    Originally posted by Xanthoria
    Look to the UK, New Zealand, Australia et al. Countries with a longer tradition of showing than the USA, with the popular working hunter divisions where horses gallop around an outside track. There is no "slow lope around a few smallish fences" class. How do these people avoid dying and suing each other? Not by drugging, and not by obeying the every word of their trainer or handing horses off to grooms. (What trainer? What grooms?) They have a completely different model of horse keeping: on pasture for much if not all of the time. They also have strong Pony Clubs and hunts that teach kids strong riding. So they can be ready to handle a horse.
    Good for them. That is NOT the US. You cannot say that what works for them will work for us. That would be like me providing an example comparing Saudi women to American women, although not quite as extreme. Different culture, different geography. Do you know how difficult it is to find affordable pasture board in Dallas? Or most urban areas?
    Not really that different - they're several English speaking countries with a similar showing class. Actually a more gallopy class than US hunters, a lot less horse drugging, and h'm, a whole load of pasture kept horses. Co-inky-dink?

    I have no idea how hard it is to find pasture board in Dallas - I wouldn't live there because (drumroll) there's no pasture board! Among other reasons But really - here in the SF bay area people kvetch about lack of pasture board too but I've had no problem finding it in the last dozen years. I've made sacrifices to ensure I get it - that's how important it is to me, and my horses.

    Originally posted by Arelle
    Originally posted by Xanthoria
    Why are we rewarding poor riding and encouraging the business model of helplessness that's sprung up?

    Since the A shows are all about $$$ just test every horse, do away with lunge areas, install a gallop track and watch as trainers jump to charge their clients for those services instead. Those who can't afford that level of trainer assistance will then find themselves on a more equal footing, as they can probably do that stuff themselves.


    A gallop track would be a disaster. Disaster.
    Why? Because people would have to learn to ride? Yowza!
    ----------------------------------------
    PSSM / EPSM and Shivers Forum
    http://pssm.xanthoria.com/
    ----------------------------------------

    Comment


    • #82
      I think that many forms of horse showing, including hunters, has nothing to do with the horses, horsemanship and riding skills.
      It's about ribbons and photos and socializing and trainers who bring horses ready-to-ride to the gate.
      Riders who ride only in lessons and only on a quiet horse can concentrate on the social life of the show.
      These riders couldn't tell if the horse was drugged to the eyeballs or head bobbing lame. (although I suppose the combination is unlikely)

      This has two big drawbacks.... the welfare of the horses, which many don't have a clue about...... AND....

      The riders who WANT to learn and ride well and deal with problems and turn an iffy ride into a great one. What about them? Bottom of the list because their horse was not drugged, LTD, ridden by the pro immediately before the class or..... heaven forbid.... pricked his ears at something interesting in the ring?
      This is about more than killing horses, it is also about killing the sport by driving away the people who actually enjoy the riding and learning.
      Nina's Story
      Epona Comm on FB

      Comment


      • #83
        Xanthoria - I think your opinion is very much the view of most eventers when looking at the hunter world. I will say this though that you aren't speaking just of horse management but of riding styles and prepping of horses. The way an event horse is prepped for an event is much different than the way a hunter is prepared. And the venues most Hunter shows are held are different, do you stay at the same show venue for 12-20 weeks? Because at WEF ours do and even off of the show grounds at WEF turnout is limited. And if everyone is talking about Devon well, turnout is NOT an option it is in the middle of town! And what about year end finals, where should they add a galloping track at indoors?

        I know I'm not giving any answers but turnout is nice but not practical at every venue, and as for people learning to ride if I waited to show until I was perfect than I would never be in the show ring and I would become, as most adults would, afraid of it.

        Comment


        • #84
          Xanthoria, please at least be informed on the logistics of the average U.S. showgrounds today. There are very few with the real estate to have large, accessible LONGEING areas, much less paddocks. The shows mentioned above, WEF, Devon, indoors, and many others, are multi-week shows. No paddocks. Saying venues should add them, without having the land available, is ridiculous, and not even a legit arguement. The few shows that do have a few paddocks available don't necessarily keep them in good repair (Culpeper) and the demand completely overwhelms the availability.

          So, take that arguement out of your arsenal because the shows today aren't the shows of 30+ years ago that took place on large farms/estates or public lands.
          Laurie

          Comment


          • #85
            Lauriep and MMF, if there is demand for those facilities, it will be met. If the riders and trainers just drug instead, it won't happen.

            Eventing happens at many places across the country and demands a great deal more open space than hunter shows. Yet it happens.

            I don't think it's unreasonable at all. If the current situation is drugging horses because they're too frisky to ride, you can either start riding Qhs and draft horses or do something about getting the facilities up to scratch.

            Similarly a 12-20 week show schedule is very stressful for a horse. Again, the riders and trainers allow that to happen instead of demanding better schedules. Do remember that shows in the USA are out to make money and you are the customer.
            ----------------------------------------
            PSSM / EPSM and Shivers Forum
            http://pssm.xanthoria.com/
            ----------------------------------------

            Comment


            • #86
              Originally posted by Xanthoria View Post
              Lauriep and MMF, if there is demand for those facilities, it will be met. If the riders and trainers just drug instead, it won't happen.

              Eventing happens at many places across the country and demands a great deal more open space than hunter shows. Yet it happens.

              I don't think it's unreasonable at all. If the current situation is drugging horses because they're too frisky to ride, you can either start riding Qhs and draft horses or do something about getting the facilities up to scratch.

              Similarly a 12-20 week show schedule is very stressful for a horse. Again, the riders and trainers allow that to happen instead of demanding better schedules. Do remember that shows in the USA are out to make money and you are the customer.
              Oy. We are talking about established show facilities that have been there for years. There ISN'T MORE LAND AVAILABLE TO THEM. Or, if there is, it is ridiculously expensive.

              The events you mention have also been in their locations for a long time. If they lost that location and had to move, they would have a problem as well, because open space is just getting too limited.

              The trainers keep these schedules going because they make money on the road, not at home. It feeds the entire "can't ride" scenario. It isn't right, but it IS the way it is today. How are you going to force them to curtail the constant travel and stay home?

              With shows of 1000 animals and up, how many paddocks do you think would have to be built to accomodate the numbers?

              There is a very good reason these horses are called "show" hunters.
              Laurie

              Comment


              • #87
                Xanthoria- Strict demand doesn't make it so! And just because horses are at shows during the winter doesn't mean they show week in and week out. My horse trail rides down the bridle paths on the canals a lot over the winter! And as you mentioned you live in California, does it snow there in the winter or get in the single digits most days during the winter? If I were a horse I would much rather live like my horse in the lap of luxury at WEF when it is freezing cold up north rather than shivering in an indoor, but then again you will probably give the eventing answer that our show hunters should be let down for months over the winter, and maybe I would if I couldn't afford Florida but I can and my horse loves it there!!!

                So to the OP should ace be legalized? I don't think so, but I don't see a problem with products like perfect prep and quiessence.

                Comment


                • #88
                  Originally posted by Angelico View Post
                  4. No medications can be given on the grounds by anyone but a licensed veterinarian.
                  All I could think on this one is...I can't wait to add that vet bill to my showing costs. Surely there are legitimate reasons for meds to be administered on show grounds that shouldn't require a vet's presence?

                  As to the Ace itself - well, I've been known to take a xanax before showing - should we drug test the riders too? Wait, I shouldn't have said (typed) that - we probably should! (I'm kidding...)

                  I think the whole thing boils down to ethics. Drugs, like everything else, can be used for good or for evil, so to speak. Can we have ethics without regulation? Good question. That certainly hasn't been the case in the legal profession...we are very tightly regulated, but still have people abusing the system.

                  I think that, no matter what the rules, people will make it a game to try and get around them. Others will break rules without even intending to do anything wrong. Most systems are imperfect...so here's hoping to a more ethical horse world? That's my ideal.

                  gardenie put up a good quote:
                  "Whatever happened to people having partnerships with their horses, owning them for 15 years and progressing up the levels together, being a team."

                  That's been my experience so far. My first horse was older, suited to my super beginner spastic self. Second horse is now younger, green, and I'm happy doing 2' jumps and moving up with her. Her temperment is also suited to my slightly less spastic current riding abilities. We're ready when we're ready...but then I am super lucky and have an awesome trainer that teaches foundation and you show when you're ready, and not before.

                  Maybe we don't all keep our horses for 15 years, but we stay with them until either they retire or we outgrow their abilities and place them with another rider who is a good match. I also live in a rare horsey vortex with a no drama barn where we are all friends. Jealous?
                  "Look, I'm trying not to test the durability of the arena with my face!" (Because only GM can do that.)

                  Comment


                  • #89
                    Originally posted by Xanthoria View Post
                    Eventing happens at many places across the country and demands a great deal more open space than hunter shows. Yet it happens.

                    I don't think it's unreasonable at all. If the current situation is drugging horses because they're too frisky to ride, you can either start riding Qhs and draft horses or do something about getting the facilities up to scratch.
                    And at least in the Northeast, formerly a true stronghold of eventing, we're losing eventing venues at the rate of at least one per year. The demand for events is there, but between land costs and liability concerns, the supply is diminishing.

                    And BTW... QHs are not necessarily deadheads. I've known any number who were NOT, as well as a few who appeared to be dead quiet... until they weren't.... I'd much rather deal with my consistently frisky Morgan than a QH that explodes out of the blue.
                    You have to have experiences to gain experience.

                    1998 Morgan mare Mythic Feronia "More Valley Girl Than Girl Scout!"

                    Comment


                    • #90
                      Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but I didn't see it. This is an editorial from 1960 from the "The Chronicle Through the Decades: 1960s": http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/...ters-editorial. Just found it interesting with all of the drugging discussions going on.

                      Comment


                      • #91
                        Originally posted by lauriep View Post
                        Oy. We are talking about established show facilities that have been there for years. There ISN'T MORE LAND AVAILABLE TO THEM. Or, if there is, it is ridiculously expensive.

                        The events you mention have also been in their locations for a long time. If they lost that location and had to move, they would have a problem as well, because open space is just getting too limited.

                        The trainers keep these schedules going because they make money on the road, not at home. It feeds the entire "can't ride" scenario. It isn't right, but it IS the way it is today. How are you going to force them to curtail the constant travel and stay home?

                        With shows of 1000 animals and up, how many paddocks do you think would have to be built to accomodate the numbers?

                        There is a very good reason these horses are called "show" hunters.
                        Look this thread shows the model isn't working in the horse's favor. I've come up with quite a few ideas that'd be to the horse's advantage but all I hear is that people can't or won't make the changes that are needed to allow a horse to be a horse and a rider to learn to ride.

                        Do you have any better ideas? It's easy to shoot others ideas down but not so easy to solve the problem, is it?
                        ----------------------------------------
                        PSSM / EPSM and Shivers Forum
                        http://pssm.xanthoria.com/
                        ----------------------------------------

                        Comment


                        • #92
                          You have to base ideas somewhat in reality! The REALITY is there isn't land for paddocks at most horse shows where they are needed and you can't force the trainers to stay home and teach. That is the reality. It is NOT what I wish for, but I don't waste time harping on impossibilities. Other ideas have merit, but these just won't fly.

                          Things that CAN change are the way hunters are judged and stiffer penalties for people who are caught. There are also new ways to implement these ideas. Things you CAN accomplish are where to spend your energy.

                          And yes, although you certainly have a right to comment on anything you wish, you won't be taken seriously if you aren't familiar with the complete problem. You won't see me on the eventing board trying to solve their problems, because I don't live in that world and can't offer REAL WORLD solutions.
                          Laurie

                          Comment


                          • #93
                            Originally posted by MMF View Post
                            Xanthoria- Strict demand doesn't make it so!
                            Seems like nobody has really tried creating a demand or seeing what'd happen - they just stick a needle in as a shortcut.

                            Originally posted by MMF View Post
                            And just because horses are at shows during the winter doesn't mean they show week in and week out. My horse trail rides down the bridle paths on the canals a lot over the winter!
                            So then you're not part of the problem. The problem that this thread is about is: people are drugging their horses instead of trail riding them or demanding turnout.

                            Originally posted by MMF View Post
                            And as you mentioned you live in California, does it snow there in the winter or get in the single digits most days during the winter? If I were a horse I would much rather live like my horse in the lap of luxury at WEF when it is freezing cold up north rather than shivering in an indoor,
                            If by the "lap of luxury" you mean stuck in a stall 23 hours a day, then no I doubt my horses would like that at all. But then I have chosen to live in a place that's good for horses. We all make choices.

                            Originally posted by MMF View Post
                            but then again you will probably give the eventing answer that our show hunters should be let down for months over the winter, and maybe I would if I couldn't afford Florida but I can and my horse loves it there!!!
                            Wrong assumption. My horses work year round: there's no need to let them down all winter when they live in pasture anyway - they just don't get that stressed, and I don't move them to showgrounds and compete for endless weeks the way hunters apparently get competed.
                            ----------------------------------------
                            PSSM / EPSM and Shivers Forum
                            http://pssm.xanthoria.com/
                            ----------------------------------------

                            Comment


                            • #94
                              Originally posted by lauriep View Post
                              You won't see me on the eventing board trying to solve their problems, because I don't live in that world and can't offer REAL WORLD solutions.
                              I'm recommending good horsekeeping and good horsemanship. That's universal. Please don't try to make this into a discipline thing.
                              ----------------------------------------
                              PSSM / EPSM and Shivers Forum
                              http://pssm.xanthoria.com/
                              ----------------------------------------

                              Comment


                              • #95
                                OMG, you are seriously comparing an eventer's workload to a modern show hunter???? No eventer could EVER last trying to compete as often as hunters because they work so much harder! A show hunter has to jump eight fences, perhaps 3 times a week, maybe 6 times, at heights from 2'6" to 4'6", and maybe a lesson thrown in. Not exactly demanding, and that isn't where the wear and tear on them comes from. But to compare an eventer to a hunter, even in the same sentence, is beyond ridiculous. They are DIFFERENT.
                                Laurie

                                Comment


                                • #96
                                  Originally posted by Xanthoria View Post
                                  I'm recommending good horsekeeping and good horsemanship. That's universal. Please don't try to make this into a discipline thing.
                                  But it IS a discipline thing. As I said above, you have to start with ideas based in reality, that are actually achievable. What you do, how you keep your horses, nearly everything about what you do as opposed with how hunters are maintained and prepared, is just completely different. And horses, being the adaptable creatures they are, learn to live in both of these, and many other, worlds.

                                  The problem is what is demanded of the show hunter IN THE RING and how to either produce it without harming the horse by injection or LTD, OR changing the rules to catch cheaters, and ease the demands on the horse.
                                  Laurie

                                  Comment


                                  • #97
                                    Originally posted by lauriep View Post
                                    OMG, you are seriously comparing an eventer's workload to a modern show hunter???? No eventer could EVER last trying to compete as often as hunters because they work so much harder! A show hunter has to jump eight fences, perhaps 3 times a week, maybe 6 times, at heights from 2'6" to 4'6", and maybe a lesson thrown in. Not exactly demanding, and that isn't where the wear and tear on them comes from. But to compare an eventer to a hunter, even in the same sentence, is beyond ridiculous. They are DIFFERENT.
                                    I don't think I ever said they were the same. Horses though, they have the same basic needs no matter what discipline.
                                    ----------------------------------------
                                    PSSM / EPSM and Shivers Forum
                                    http://pssm.xanthoria.com/
                                    ----------------------------------------

                                    Comment


                                    • #98
                                      Originally posted by lauriep View Post
                                      But it IS a discipline thing. As I said above, you have to start with ideas based in reality, that are actually achievable. What you do, how you keep your horses, nearly everything about what you do as opposed with how hunters are maintained and prepared, is just completely different. And horses, being the adaptable creatures they are, learn to live in both of these, and many other, worlds.
                                      As I said before, horses have basic needs for movement and so on for their mental and physical health. Keep an eventer or a hunter stalled 24/7 and you'll have a very fresh animal. That is discipline independent.

                                      Originally posted by lauriep View Post
                                      The problem is what is demanded of the show hunter IN THE RING and how to either produce it without harming the horse by injection or LTD, OR changing the rules to catch cheaters, and ease the demands on the horse.
                                      Well obviously what happens in the ring is a result of what happens outside the ring. I'm not seeing how the two things can be separated.

                                      You may say nobody in the world can afford to find the land to provide for turnouts and so on, I say "show managers will find a way if there's money in it for them."
                                      ----------------------------------------
                                      PSSM / EPSM and Shivers Forum
                                      http://pssm.xanthoria.com/
                                      ----------------------------------------

                                      Comment


                                      • #99
                                        Xanthoria- it's not a personal attack. Though your idea is lovely, venues, let's use Devon, can't make it happen. Long gone are the days when you hunted through and literally jumped into the Dixon Oval. Financially, it is not feasible to acquire the land around it.

                                        Depending on your geographic location, people have to manage their horses differently. The key is "manage", this should not include drugging. I'll admit it, for me, showing at big shows bites sometimes when they have to be stalled. It meant me being at Devon late walking my mare around, being early, being the first one in the Dixon Oval (Spotsnchrome shout out!!) and putting in the effort.
                                        No crazy lunging for me, no drugs, no riding her to death (I'm too old and portly for that anyway...) in her class, she was not a dead head and her reward was a nice ribbon and she went home to her lovely turnout (my reward was Aleve BID for 2 days after...)

                                        Laurie- you seem to be wasting your breath your breath trying to explain...
                                        Come to the dark side, we have cookies

                                        Comment


                                        • Xanthoria - You obviously are a horse management genius! (Please note my extreme sarcasm). How about this as a person who only shows in the Hunters I won't tell you things about 3 day eventing and maybe you can admit that you haven't been to enough hunter venues on the east coast to make rational and reasonable suggestions! We all get that you don't like horses getting drugs, WE GET IT! Please stop giving ridiculous suggestions and quoting one persons post 10x in your own!

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X