• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Causes for chair seat and how to fix?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Causes for chair seat and how to fix?

    STRUGGLING with chair seat this year and just can't figure out why, am SO frustrated! Feel like I'm always just behind the motion and when I see it on video it looks ugly. Anyone been there done that and have some tips?

    Possible factors:

    - got this lovely new (used) Antares saddle with extra forward flaps and it feels wonderful to sit in but I'm wondering if I'm just fighting the saddle. I have super long legs and always have my knee in front of the flap, finally this saddle keeps both knee and bum within the confines of the leather so I thought it fit well. But I have to say it's really hard to 2 point in, I feel like I am either in a dressage seat or 2 pointing way ahead of the vertical (like hunching though it doesn't really look that way when I see video) and it's REALLY hard to maintain a 2 point. I do feel like everything below me is moving around at the canter, like lower leg doing a lot of swinging. Yet over fences it feels great and I have a really good position. I THOUGHT I loved this saddle but now I'm wondering if it's screwed my riding as I didn't used to have these problems.

    - Returning from an injury and not very fit. Maybe lack of core fitness? I know lack of fitness and core affect your riding in general but could this specifically cause chair seat???? I'm riding two or three a day so am gaining fitness, plus doing core exercises.

    - Jointed stirrups? Have been using these for a few years for my bad knees, was never really that keen on them but I've kept them for that reason. I switched to the MDC Ultimates when I bought the Antares. Could these be culprits?

    Anything else spring to mind?

    Suggestions anyone? I'm at my wit's end with this

    And please don't ask me to post video as I'm too embarrassed LOL.

  • #2
    Unfortunatley, you may have to start with the most $$$$$ solution - the saddle. Fitness, etc., is something you can work on, but if you're fighting your saddle for position, you're putting unnecessary strain on yourself and possibly even risk building the 'wrong' muscle memory.

    The 2 biggest causes of chair seat are stirrup bar placdement being too far forward or the balance of the saddle is cantle low. If its a cantle low problem, a seat riser may help, so try that first. If its the stirrup bar, the saddle is just never going to work for you.

    I just sent back a beautiful trial saddle for that very reason. Took my first lesson in it and trainer was like "What is wrong with your leg today?" The saddle was very comfortable, but I could NOT get my leg under me.
    Lowly Farm Hand with Delusions of Barn Biddieom.
    Witherun Farm
    http://witherun-farm.blogspot.com/

    Comment


    • #3
      yep, definitely check the saddle. If you don't want to put up a video, do you have a picture of yourself sitting in it?

      Comment


      • #4
        My old Antares put me in a chair seat. It has never been a problem for me before or after that dreadful saddle. In general, I think the padded French saddles tend to encourage (or force) a chair seat.

        Comment


        • #5
          I have this problem too and I never thought it could be my saddle causing it. I hadn't been riding consistently for the past year so I thought I was just out of whack. I'm going to check my stirrup bars tonight and maybe try a friend's saddle.

          Comment


          • #6
            Unfortunately I 2nd 3rd and 4th the saddle fit may be the reason of your chair seat. Been there - done that and boy was I sad when I had to rid my favorite saddle

            Comment


            • #7
              definitely saddle...

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by alterchicken View Post
                ....But I have to say it's really hard to 2 point in, I feel like I am either in a dressage seat or 2 pointing way ahead of the vertical (like hunching though it doesn't really look that way when I see video) and it's REALLY hard to maintain a 2 point.
                Chair seat is usually because rider is sitting on pockets and letting knee to hip rise up OR pushing/locking into heels. For two point or when seated all the joints must allow elastic 'feathering' into heels". Ideally this means ear/shoulder/hip/back of heel in alignment (w/o locking the joints), in 'light seat' the upper body is slightlyyyy more forward.

                Imho you pointed out what is missing, and the solution. And imho you can sit aligned in about any saddle (proffis do it all the time). Standing still go to two point, and reach back too far with the leg...you fall forward; then try too far forward, and you fall back. Then find the in between point where your trunk keeps the leg stilled. Remember you must 1make sure your lower leg (toes) do not turn out too much. 2 the thigh is flat on the saddle/knees forward 3 you are not standing in the stirrups nor collapsing your trunk. 4 no resting hands on horse's neck.

                Then do this in walk, and after try trot, and lastly canter.
                I.D.E.A. yoda

                Comment


                • #9
                  Also agree with the saddle. Though, it may not be that the saddle isn't fitting you, rather it may not be fitting your horse. I would find a reputable saddle fitter (could probably find one searching or posting in these forums) and get the saddle checked out. A good fitter will be able to not only evaluate how the saddle balances/fits your horse, but also how it fits you! Through lots of saddle fittings and trials I have ridden (briefly for educational purposes) in saddles that were purposely left cantle low and you are hopelessly behind the motion. Even at a post in the trot I felt as if I was falling backward.

                  I don't think it's fitness related. I've taken hiatuses from riding and come back chubby and unfit! Lack of fitness never hindered my ability to balance and follow the horses movement. It DID dramatically affect how long I could do that for every few minutes and I would need a walk break!

                  Not sure if your horses back is comfy, or your balance allows for such, but riding for a few minutes bareback (or with a bareback pad) will answer your saddle question. If you can walk, trot a few strides, and canter bareback centered over you horse, then it's definitely the saddle!

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    Thanks for the replies guys. I love this saddle...well I love to look at it and pat it and sit in it's squishy calfskin self but I've had this sick feeling all along that I just can't ride in it.

                    How do you tell if the stirrup bar placement is too far forward or far back or just right? I've never been able to figure that one out?

                    I can't afford custom and I prefer used saddles that are broken in anyway. I searched long and hard for this one in my seat size and the extra forward and long flap, darn it.

                    I DID wonder if it was cantle low so yesterday tried a lollipop seat riser and that did help but not enough, was still fighting the saddle.

                    Is this a common Antares problem?

                    I go by the old school shoulder, hip, heel in line motto and truly my knee is almost in line with my heel pretty much if I'm sitting in it or walking...it's that bad. At the trot and canter I fight constantly to get my leg back, which leaves me feeling like I have to tilt my upper body too far forward to make the balance right and get that leg back at all. Make sense?

                    Anyone think it could be the jointed irons? I was going to ditch those next. Thing is I'm not sure my knees will do well without them and you shouldn't have to do all this crap with your saddle just to be able to not fall backwards in it, ugh!

                    Oh and I ride multiple horses so it's not like I can get a custom for one horse anyway, and the problem is the same on every horse, not just the high withered types.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I agree it's a saddle problem, but not necessarily Antares specific. Your long legs are probably the issue, I have them too and have suffered the same problems in some saddles. If you are long from hip to knee, stirrup bar placement may be a problem in many saddles. Schleese has a good pictorial explanation of the issue:

                      http://www.schleese.com/documents/Le...0June%2008.pdf

                      Yes, pros can ride well in any saddle, but I suspect that's because they ride so much and are strong enough to fight a saddle when the balance isn't right for them and not exhaust themselves. Those of us who don't ride multiple horses a day don't always have the strength to successfully fight the tack and maintain a balanced position in ill fitting tack.

                      I still have not found a close contact saddle that works really well for me except those in which the seat is a bit too small and my knee is poking over the flap...for some reason a bigger seat and/or more forward flap seems to push the stirrup bar too far forward from the center of the seat in most makes. I always find myself compensating in the other direction to avoid a chair seat and end up tipped too far forward. I have a dressage saddle that has terrific balance of me and it is a night and day difference how much easier it is to maintain a decent position in it, so I KNOW what I'm looking for, I just have to find it!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I agree about the saddle. I have a super-long leg like you and find I can't ride in extra-forward saddles because they always seem to give me a chair seat. I have extra long flaps but not extra forward so my femur can go down and lengthen instead of out in front of me. Might be a configuration to look for.

                        I have a Smith-Worthington Stoneleigh AO that I adore for this reason -- it is built for long-legged riders and takes up my knee without being too forward in its balance. They are on super-clearance on the SW website if you want to consider something like that. I bought mine in 1995 and it still looks terrific.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I agree with everyone - defintely saddle.
                          I had a lovely Childeric that I ADORED!!! But after struggling with forcing my leg back and never getting there, along with 5 different people telling me my saddle didn't fit me, I finally made a change.
                          It took LOTS of trials, but I now have a saddle that fits, is comfy, and allows my leg to find the correct position - which helped me get fitter in the right way.

                          I feel your pain.
                          Very frustrating, but so worth it in the end.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Well saddle can make a difference but I have the same issue and it's because I jam my heels down too much. The jointed stirrups do NOT help this...they make it worse.

                            I have to ride withought pushing on my irons and jamming my heels down. That helps me not get into a chair seat.

                            Just offering another POV
                            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                            Equine & Pet Portrait Artist
                            www.elainehickman.com
                            **Morgans Do It All**

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I'd try ditching the flexible irons before giving up the saddle. That's a easy issue to rule out. Does this saddle have blocks behind the leg? If so, thats another issue worth looking into. Good luck!

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                Originally posted by Canaqua View Post
                                I agree it's a saddle problem, but not necessarily Antares specific. Your long legs are probably the issue, I have them too and have suffered the same problems in some saddles. If you are long from hip to knee, stirrup bar placement may be a problem in many saddles. Schleese has a good pictorial explanation of the issue:

                                http://www.schleese.com/documents/Le...0June%2008.pdf

                                THANKS for this...interesting reading!

                                I still have not found a close contact saddle that works really well for me except those in which the seat is a bit too small and my knee is poking over the flap...for some reason a bigger seat and/or more forward flap seems to push the stirrup bar too far forward from the center of the seat in most makes. !
                                THIS is really interesting to me as funny enough until I bought the Antares 18" I was riding in a too small 16.5" CWD and rode in it WAY better and no chair seat problem. Knee poked over the front of the flap unless I was in 2 point and then it looked/fit better, ditto over fences. Loved that saddle but was embarrassed about semi bum hang-over the cantle and I know it's not good for your horse's back for you to be in a too small saddle.

                                I just don't know visually when looking at a saddle how to judge stirrup bar placement? Is that possible or do manufacturers have a way of specifying what the placement is or is it all standard to each brand? i.e. can you order an Antares for instance with the stirrup bars further back? Or do you have to sit in it and either get a pic or have someone on the ground assess?

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  If it is the position of the stirrup bars (and it is likely they are too far forward) you can put some rubber tubing or a martingale ring over the bar before you put the leather on. This helps put the stirrup leather more underneath your center of balance.

                                  However, if the saddle isn't fitting your horse properly (pommel high) it could also be tipping you back enough to put you behind the motion.

                                  I also have very long femurs and had to look long and hard to find saddles that put me in a balanced position. Sometimes it's not the ones with the extra forward flaps and you just need to live with your knees up against the edge.
                                  Equine Ink - My soapbox for equestrian writings & reviews.
                                  EquestrianHow2 - Operating instructions for your horse.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Canaqua View Post
                                    I still have not found a close contact saddle that works really well for me except those in which the seat is a bit too small and my knee is poking over the flap...for some reason a bigger seat and/or more forward flap seems to push the stirrup bar too far forward from the center of the seat in most makes. I always find myself compensating in the other direction to avoid a chair seat and end up tipped too far forward. I have a dressage saddle that has terrific balance of me and it is a night and day difference how much easier it is to maintain a decent position in it, so I KNOW what I'm looking for, I just have to find it!
                                    This is where I am now as well. I'm only 4'10", but have a long hip/knee length for my height. My Frank Baines dressage saddle puts me in perfect balance, but I haven't found a CC saddle yet that doesn't either give me hip pain or put me in a chair seat. I've been resisting calling the different reps out because I really don't wan't to spend 3K on a saddle that I use once a week for a lesson, but it may well come to that, as I refuse to give up my h/j trainer. If my dressage saddle fit the horse I ride at her barn, I would just use it and only do flat work.
                                    Lowly Farm Hand with Delusions of Barn Biddieom.
                                    Witherun Farm
                                    http://witherun-farm.blogspot.com/

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Bogie View Post
                                      If it is the position of the stirrup bars (and it is likely they are too far forward) you can put some rubber tubing or a martingale ring over the bar before you put the leather on. This helps put the stirrup leather more underneath your center of balance.
                                      This. I used vet wrap that I twisted and wound around the stirrup bars a couple times before I put on the stirrup bars. It's significantly helped my position in my vega, which has too short flaps and too forward stirrup bar and puts me in a chair seat.
                                      .

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Big_Grey_hunter View Post
                                        This. I used vet wrap that I twisted and wound around the stirrup bars a couple times before I put on the stirrup bars. It's significantly helped my position in my vega, which has too short flaps and too forward stirrup bar and puts me in a chair seat.
                                        Do you have a picture? Does it set the stirrup leather farther back? Sounds like it would just make the bar bulkier.

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X