• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse
1 of 2 < >

Event Announcements now available FREE to all registered users

We just reconfigured the Event Announcements forum to be available as a free service for all registered forum users. See the thread stuck at the top of that forum for more information.
2 of 2 < >

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Swapping Leads in Between Lines

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Swapping Leads in Between Lines

    I have a young mare of whom I only started over fences 6 months ago and we did our first real course Saturday since we have been stuck in the smaller indoor, and I noticed every time she doesn't land the new leads across the first diagonal fence she will swap in between.

    I have been in hunter land long enough to know judges don't love swaps between fences due to it impeding the rhythm.

    My mare has natural changes, (she will listen to the aid if I ask), but she corrects herself if I don't ask. I believe she does this thinking I forgot to ask.

    Being that she is just learning I figured I would attempt to hold her on the landed lead until the line is complete but it makes for a very 'heavy' horse, if you know what I mean.


    What do I do, correct this now by focusing on landing the new lead OR let it go until she is a bit more experienced?

    I am stumped. Thank you all!
    http://dotstreamming.blogspot.com/

  • #2
    Does she swap before the jump or just in the middle of the line? Stop doing any lead changes when you flat her. The swap sometimes happens with smart horses who anticipate the lead change. I would focus on fixing it now because if you let it go on, it will then become a habit and a very hard one to break. Teach her to land the lead by using a slight opening inside rein over the fence.

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      Originally posted by HorseLuvr View Post
      Does she swap before the jump or just in the middle of the line? Stop doing any lead changes when you flat her. The swap sometimes happens with smart horses who anticipate the lead change. I would focus on fixing it now because if you let it go on, it will then become a habit and a very hard one to break. Teach her to land the lead by using a slight opening inside rein over the fence.
      She will swap before the fence if we are about 2-3 strides into the diagonal line or after the first fence if the fence is closer.

      She will also swap during bending lines as soon as I ask for a different bend.

      Should I practice counter-canter?
      http://dotstreamming.blogspot.com/

      Comment


      • #4
        JMO but swapping within a line (as long as it's not in front of the out fence) is simply not that big a deal until the fences-and the horse- get off the baby level and the level of competition heats up. Of all your worries, it's low down on the list.

        See....it is partially your fault because she is trying to HELP you out here, she has learned where she is going next. That's something all Hunters learn from hours of outside diagonal, outside diagonal, so will the Eq horses and Jumpers eventually. Repeat it enough and they learn it.

        Think you need to stop ever practicing courses and just do singles and individual lines, start turning the OTHER way after your lines. Avoid halting and keep going too, fix it forward.

        And you also should try to tell her you want her to stay on the landing lead. If you need to do that with adds so you can stay focused and keep her balanced, it would be a good idea. But don't just jump in and abandon her, tell her to stay on that lead and make her stay on the lead. Ride every stride.

        One thing she is also probably doing, dropping her inside shoulder so she can slice that corner. They get lazy about that with too many courses-and it will take her to the inside corner of that out and ruin what would have been a good center to center distance. If you need a lead change off that diagonal into the corner, you are screwed if they are leaning and slicing the corner, get a cross canter there too you can't fix sometimes.

        Just a guess here but you probably are leaning in yourself and you need to sit straight and use that OUTSIDE rein. Practice leg yields, shoulder and haunch in/out to better control her body when you flat. Dressage lessons wouldn't hurt a bit for this.

        Trust me I know all about this. Add if it's easier, stay straight, work on that in your flatwork and never turn the way she thinks she is going after a line.

        Oh, just remembered I found that looking to the outside standard of the out jumps, not the inside in the direction of the upcoming corner, helped me stay square and held the horse in balance.
        When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

        The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by findeight View Post
          start turning the OTHER way after your lines.
          This! Change it up. Land from a line and turn the other direction so she had to listen to you and can't just anticipate the turn and the lead she thinks she should be on.

          Also try riding the lines as single. Jump in, canter a straight line that takes you a little bit past the second jump, and turn the opposite direction of where landing from the line would lead you. So see if she anticipates the lead change without the jump there (she probably will.)

          Also try jumping the second part only, as a long approach diagonal single. Does she try to swap on those?

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            Originally posted by findeight View Post
            JMO but swapping within a line (as long as it's not in front of the out fence) is simply not that big a deal until the fences-and the horse- get off the baby level and the level of competition heats up. Of all your worries, it's low down on the list.

            See....it is partially your fault because she is trying to HELP you out here, she has learned where she is going next. That's something all Hunters learn from hours of outside diagonal, outside diagonal, so will the Eq horses and Jumpers eventually. Repeat it enough and they learn it.

            Think you need to stop ever practicing courses and just do singles and individual lines, start turning the OTHER way after your lines. Avoid halting and keep going too, fix it forward.

            And you also should try to tell her you want her to stay on the landing lead. If you need to do that with adds so you can stay focused and keep her balanced, it would be a good idea. But don't just jump in and abandon her, tell her to stay on that lead and make her stay on the lead. Ride every stride.

            One thing she is also probably doing, dropping her inside shoulder so she can slice that corner. They get lazy about that with too many courses-and it will take her to the inside corner of that out and ruin what would have been a good center to center distance. If you need a lead change off that diagonal into the corner, you are screwed if they are leaning and slicing the corner, get a cross canter there too you can't fix sometimes.

            Just a guess here but you probably are leaning in yourself and you need to sit straight and use that OUTSIDE rein. Practice leg yields, shoulder and haunch in/out to better control her body when you flat. Dressage lessons wouldn't hurt a bit for this.

            Trust me I know all about this. Add if it's easier, stay straight, work on that in your flatwork and never turn the way she thinks she is going after a line.

            Oh, just remembered I found that looking to the outside standard of the out jumps, not the inside in the direction of the upcoming corner, helped me stay square and held the horse in balance.
            Good point! I think it must be because I typically swap leads on serpentines to work on them, so as soon as I let up on my outside she anticipates and swaps.

            I think I will work on lines and perfecting my corners. That way at shows I can just treat courses as 4-5 lines.

            Thank you for the input.
            http://dotstreamming.blogspot.com/

            Comment


            • #7
              Did I just read on another thread that it was an Appy? They are very smart! My Appy did a lot of swapping when he was younger. Like your mare, he had a very easy lead change -- I never really had to teach him. He is smart and helpful like no other horse I have ever had.

              With him, I never ever practice lead changes on the flat. When we do courses, I tell him all the time that I appreciate his trying to help -- not literally, but you know what I mean -- I am easy on him. He hates being drilled on, and when he was young and swappy, I did what a previous poster said and pretty much let him outgrow it. He did tend to swap more in front of the jump at a bigger distance, so on this horse, I make sure I ride to a distance he is comfortable with.

              Also, just so he knows he can hold his lead, I do a lot of cantering over poles on a circle -- two on opposite sides of a big circle. I canter him through a grid of poles 9 - 10 feet apart too, and through a set of three set the same distance apart in a quartercircle. With all that pole work, he gets good at holding his lead unless I ask for a change.

              He can still be a little overly "helpful" on a long ride to a single on the diagonal, or in a bending line, but if I ride correctly, we can avoid a swap because he is simply better trained now.
              Rest in peace Claudius, we will miss you.

              Comment


              • #8
                Hey, just thought of this, try it, kind of fun and will help enliven your schooling while solving this.

                You are going to turn a line into a figure 8 excercise. It's simple, don't need to build anything.

                Basically jump the in fence, circle left, jump the in fence, circle right, jump in, and continue to jump out down the line. Then repeat with just the out fence into the corner a few times changing direction.

                Then you figure out a reverse turn that sends you back into the line which is now reversed and you do in, in, in, on down the line to out, out, out.

                Get it? Don't stop either. You can do this around any 2 fences just about anywhere in the ring.

                I once had a real good Western Riding horse (a Paint), that's a lead change pattern class and have friends with working cow and Reining horses. These stinkers get where they anticipate the pattern waaaaaay too much and you about tear your hair out trying to think up a way to practice without the pattern.

                You learn to outfox them and keep them guessing and getting ahead of themselves on their course/pattern.

                Try doing a shallow (be nice here) serpentine with just 2 loops and STAY on the same lead. Add a third shallow loop when they will stay thru two. That ought to keep them guessing.

                And try to get OUT of the ring and away from any planned excercise-just ride what you find out there. Like lead changes on a twisty trail and collection/extension on a long flat stretch. Leg yields out in the field can be fun too, show how much you depend on the rail.
                When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  Originally posted by ToTheNines View Post
                  Did I just read on another thread that it was an Appy? They are very smart! My Appy did a lot of swapping when he was younger. Like your mare, he had a very easy lead change -- I never really had to teach him. He is smart and helpful like no other horse I have ever had.

                  With him, I never ever practice lead changes on the flat. When we do courses, I tell him all the time that I appreciate his trying to help -- not literally, but you know what I mean -- I am easy on him. He hates being drilled on, and when he was young and swappy, I did what a previous poster said and pretty much let him outgrow it. He did tend to swap more in front of the jump at a bigger distance, so on this horse, I make sure I ride to a distance he is comfortable with.

                  Also, just so he knows he can hold his lead, I do a lot of cantering over poles on a circle -- two on opposite sides of a big circle. I canter him through a grid of poles 9 - 10 feet apart too, and through a set of three set the same distance apart in a quartercircle. With all that pole work, he gets good at holding his lead unless I ask for a change.

                  He can still be a little overly "helpful" on a long ride to a single on the diagonal, or in a bending line, but if I ride correctly, we can avoid a swap because he is simply better trained now.
                  Yup, that is her! She is a Reg Canadian Wb but technically 50/50 App/DWB.

                  She is smart and also anticipates like crazy. She learns my patterns almost instantly and when I change it in the same day she gets all huffy about it and tries to pull me the 'right' direction.

                  Findeight- Thank you. I didn't think of that but it sounds genious! I bet it would help with our turns as well.
                  http://dotstreamming.blogspot.com/

                  Comment

                  Working...
                  X