• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Editorial in COTH 3/19/12

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Editorial in COTH 3/19/12

    ok, is it me or did no one read this particular editorial or do editorials generally get the page flip treatment? Beth Rasin, I don't often agree with the editorials I read in COTH, but this one was STELLAR, and I salute you for stepping up to the plate and saying what needs to be said in such a public forum as The Chronicle. If there was a thread addressing this, I apologize for the revisit, but I did scan backwards in the files and didn't see one. You said what needs to be said instead of it being "whispered" ,as you noted in your piece. Yes, drugging has always been an issue, you acknowledged that too. But, the division could more appropriately be called " Pleasure Hunters". How many times have any of you ridden out in the hunt field at the pace you show in the ring? The briiliant round, the bold fence, they should be rewarded. Why are we doing the " LTD". drugs, or God-knows-what to produce these artificially slow rounds? Your parargraph that states
    " That's why Soule suggests modifying the judging. It seems like it's often whispered' That's what needs to happen' but where does it start? With someone on a horse welfare committee insisting on it? With one judge brave enough to reward a brilliant round with a bit of exuberance over a robotic but technically correct round? With a course designer who abandons strict footage measurements in lines? Trainers who say ' you're not ready to show yet' to a student who isn't a secure rider?"
    I can't improve one iota on your closing, so I will quote it;
    " Many people agree this is the right direction for the sport, but who's brave enough to take the first step?"
    " It's about the horse, and that's it."
    George Morris

  • #2
    [QUOTE=Running Fox Farm;6228788 " Many people agree this is the right direction for the sport, but who's brave enough to take the first step?"[/QUOTE]

    USHJA took a position on this topic about two weeks ago.
    I guess nobody reads the CEO's blog either.
    http://www.ushja.org/ShelbysBlog/Fre...ost.aspx?id=68

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      Blogs... I don't pay much attention to blogs as they seem more like a personal opinion than an official stance. Or is my understanding of what a blog is incorrect, as it very well could be?
      " It's about the horse, and that's it."
      George Morris

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Running Fox Farm View Post
        Blogs... I don't pay much attention to blogs as they seem more like a personal opinion than an official stance. Or is my understanding of what a blog is incorrect, as it very well could be?
        That's really too bad that you have that attitude .

        Why don't you try reading about it and how it fits into USHJA's communications with the public before you dismiss it.

        It is part of USHJA's website and USHJA members are encouraged to ask questions through the BLOG.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Running Fox Farm View Post
          I don't pay much attention to blogs as they seem more like a personal opinion than an official stance.
          Yet your read COTH? You realize most of what anyone says here is personal opinion, right?

          (Not slamming COTH, but the thing I love about it is how many different opinions and how much insight you can get on a topic.)

          Comment


          • #6
            Not slamming any one but after watching Dedication's WEF round what are the chances that the judging will change?. Ever?

            Comment


            • #7
              S A McKee, thank you for the link to Ms. French's blog. I'm glad that it seemed to support a change in judging, however, "...encourage and educate our judges that expressiveness that is not disruptive should not be penalized..." is a pretty weak statement. Getting judges to overlook a little head shake or tail swish at the end of a line isn't going to solve the problem.

              Instead of "not penalizing" expressiveness, I would argue that the hunter ring needs to change the type of performance it rewards. AND, an overly slow or dull (though technically correct) round needs to be penalized.

              As long as the ideal round is a horse jumping and moving like it has been lunged for hours or medicated, that is what a lot of people are going to do to try to win. There is always going to be some new not yet tested for/untestable substance that people will be experimenting with on their horses. Or "legal" drugs like Mag, dex, etc.

              The day the judging starts sharply penalizing horses that look like they are overly tired or drugged, people will stop.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by BeeHoney View Post
                S A McKee, thank you for the link to Ms. French's blog. I'm glad that it seemed to support a change in judging, however, "...encourage and educate our judges that expressiveness that is not disruptive should not be penalized..." is a pretty weak statement. Getting judges to overlook a little head shake or tail swish at the end of a line isn't going to solve the problem.

                Instead of "not penalizing" expressiveness, I would argue that the hunter ring needs to change the type of performance it rewards. AND, an overly slow or dull (though technically correct) round needs to be penalized.

                As long as the ideal round is a horse jumping and moving like it has been lunged for hours or medicated, that is what a lot of people are going to do to try to win. There is always going to be some new not yet tested for/untestable substance that people will be experimenting with on their horses. Or "legal" drugs like Mag, dex, etc.

                The day the judging starts sharply penalizing horses that look like they are overly tired or drugged, people will stop.
                Not so much a weak statement.
                It's the first time anybody in a position to change the game has taken a stand on the drugging issue and the problem that a little bit of 'life' is penalized.

                I've been saying on these boards for months that the rules need to change and while this isn't a rule change it is a step in that direction from someone in authority in the Hunter Jumper USEF Affiliate.

                I'd like to give them the benefit of a little time to see how far they go towards rules revision.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I am very glad that Taken won the Derby. He was really cantering, not doing a Western lope.

                  My suggestion is that the hunters be given a "time allowed" on course. The perfect time allowed might be the time that Taken took between the first jump and last. ( converted into #feet/ minute?).

                  Penalty to be given for every horse who exceeds that time.

                  This idea is not dependent on judging, nor on drugging (both of which are incredibly hard to monitor and enforce). But it will reward horses who canter on and jump out of stride. Dedication-types will incur many penalty points for cantering like he did in the first round of the Derby.

                  Will it possibly add another level of expertise to be proficient? Based on what I saw in the $500,000 GP on Sat night, yes it will. The time allowed was very tight and to be within the time AND fault free was very hard.

                  But making hunters more challenging is not a bad thing. It might make it necessary that people know how to ride to be successful.
                  "He lives in a cocoon of solipsism"

                  Charles Krauthammer speaking about Trump

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Lord Helpus View Post
                    I am very glad that Taken won the Derby. He was really cantering, not doing a Western lope.

                    My suggestion is that the hunters be given a "time allowed" on course. The perfect time allowed might be the time that Taken took between the first jump and last. ( converted into #feet/ minute?).

                    Penalty to be given for every horse who exceeds that time.

                    This idea is not dependent on judging, nor on drugging (both of which are incredibly hard to monitor and enforce). But it will reward horses who canter on and jump out of stride. Dedication-types will incur many penalty points for cantering like he did in the first round of the Derby.

                    Will it possibly add another level of expertise to be proficient? Based on what I saw in the $500,000 GP on Sat night, yes it will. The time allowed was very tight and to be within the time AND fault free was very hard.

                    But making hunters more challenging is not a bad thing. It might make it necessary that people know how to ride to be successful.
                    That is a great idea Lord Helpus!

                    It was lovely to watch Taken's round. The difference in that round and the others was striking. The horse looked (almost) like an actual hunter, alert and interested and moving forward.
                    Hopefully this will be a trend and courses will be designed that favor forward moving horses. In my opinion, having more classes on grass and with natural fences, hedges and banks, can only help reverse the trend of the hunter appearing to be a W.P. horse in english tack.

                    Hopefully judges will help the process along, however your idea of a time allowed would surely make a change quickly, and cut the judging politics out of the equation.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I'm not a subscriber. Can anyone explain the editorial in a bit more detail?
                      Life would be infinitely better if pinatas suddenly appeared throughout the day.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Just a couple of the latest threads on the COTH hunter jumper board members' opinions regarding the article and drugging....


                        http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...light=drugging

                        http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...light=drugging

                        http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...light=drugging

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Maybe...

                          Vetrinarians who are so willing to help people cheat shouldn't be allowed to be the OFFICIAL vet at rated shows.

                          Maybe even having to provide lists of ANY banned or Illegal substances bought by people at shows, with horses names, amount, and then could even have that checked, with amount used, if horse is showing, etc. (yes I realize there are theraputic uses for several drugs, but if a banned substance was purchased, listed for a horse not at the show, but some is GONE, that trainer HAS A PROBLEM....)
                          " iCOTH " window/bumper stickers. Wood Routed Stall and Farm Signs
                          http://www.bluemooncustomsigns.com

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            "But making hunters more challenging is not a bad thing. It might make it necessary that people know how to ride to be successful."

                            Sure glad I wasn't drinking anything when I read that!

                            C
                            www.ayliprod.com
                            Equine Photography in the Northeast

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Ccoronios - Yep. Me too. WTF?

                              Sorry - but Shelby French? Pfft. Like I really care what she has to say.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Lord Helpus View Post
                                I am very glad that Taken won the Derby. He was really cantering, not doing a Western lope.

                                My suggestion is that the hunters be given a "time allowed" on course. The perfect time allowed might be the time that Taken took between the first jump and last. ( converted into #feet/ minute?).

                                Penalty to be given for every horse who exceeds that time.

                                This idea is not dependent on judging, nor on drugging (both of which are incredibly hard to monitor and enforce). But it will reward horses who canter on and jump out of stride. Dedication-types will incur many penalty points for cantering like he did in the first round of the Derby.

                                Will it possibly add another level of expertise to be proficient? Based on what I saw in the $500,000 GP on Sat night, yes it will. The time allowed was very tight and to be within the time AND fault free was very hard.

                                But making hunters more challenging is not a bad thing. It might make it necessary that people know how to ride to be successful.
                                Well said, as always, and GREAT idea on time allowed! I also think some kind of scoring like in dressage with sheets exhibitors get at the end would do wonders for transparency and understanding. Similar to dressage each 'movement' ie fence, could receive a score and there could also be scores for between fences (misses change etc) and overall impression etc.

                                I don't show hunters, only jumpers, and absolutely despise the WP around a course of jumps look and the rampant lunging and drugging it encourages. I was excited when they brought the Derbies back but so far the ones I've seen have done little to restore my faith in anything to do with hunters. Brilliance is still not rewarded as a general rule.

                                I hope for the sake of the horses the hunters can find a way home.
                                Destiny is not a matter of chance, it is a matter of choice; it is not a thing to be waited for, it is a thing to be achieved. - William Jennings Bryan

                                http://www.halcyon-hill.com

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X