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Dishonest Seller Situation..WWYD

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  • Dishonest Seller Situation..WWYD

    Hey Guys,
    I just bought this pony jumper from a local barn near me. About a week after purchasing him I emailed the selling asking if they have the bill of sale from the previous owner so I can do an ownership change with USEF as the pony is still listed under her name. I never got a message back about the bill of sale from the sellers. I thought it was kind of strange, but I just let it go figuring they just never saw the message. They willingly gave me the pony's USEF number, so I didn't think anything of it.
    I had talked to the pony's USEF listed owner last spring about possibly taking her a couple of her ponies to train and show, so I had her email and I decided to shoot her an email to see if I could get her to sign the papers and this is what I got in response....... I'm looking to qualify him for PF's for this year and need his card.

    Hi Lauren,
    Unfortunately I will not sign the papers. I had free leased my ponies to them with no contract as long as they advertise to sell them. Few months into the lease I asked that I needed them sold because I need the money since they weren't advertising or I would take them back. I even tried showing up and taking my horses and she called the cops. I got a lawyer involved but we never went to court. She said if I wanted my ponies back I would have to pay her the expenses of both ponies. A free lease or any kind of lease is when the leasee takes full responsibility and pays all the expenses not the owner. At the end of the said lease (November 2011) she wouldn't give them back to me unless I paid. I am not going to pay for them to free lease my ponies and make money off of it.
    So I am sorry but I will not sign anything. Also good luck trying to qualify for pony finals. If your not showing in the jumpers you probably won't do good. I owned him for years trying to turn him into a hunter/equitation pony and only for a month he was good enough to show in the hunters then he started refusing.

  • #2
    OOh, that's ugly. Sorry I don't have any advice. Does USEF have a policy for such a situation? Might be worth asking....

    Comment


    • #3
      find a good attorney!

      one experienced with matters of equine ownership
      breeder of Mercury!

      remember to enjoy the moment, and take a moment to enjoy and give God the glory for these wonderful horses in our lives.BECAUSE: LIFE is What Happens While Making Other Plans

      Comment


      • #4
        The email you got back didn't sound hugely professional, so I would bet that there is more to it (and I hope so, for your sake). First and foremost, you need to deal with the sellers as your exchange was with them, and not this previous owner.

        Good luck, and I hope it gets resolved easily!

        Comment


        • #5
          all I can say is get everything you need at time of sale. After that all bets are off.....

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            Thanks Ladies,
            The previous owner doesn't want him back at all. I just don't want this to come back and haunt me in the future if she suddenly decides she does. We got the pony for next to nothing and now I know why...

            Comment


            • #7
              Well that's a messy situation.

              I would keep the email (as evidence), and contact USEF for advice before worrying about a lawyer. I imagine this situation is similar to a horse/pony being sold for unpaid board/training bills, so they likely have a protocol in place.
              Freeing worms from cans everywhere!

              Comment


              • #8
                Contact USEF.

                I bought my horse from my trainer who had taken possession of said horse from the USEF listed owner. My bill of sale came from my trainer who was the "owner", but not in the eyes of the USEF. I was able to sign a form (something special USEF had), pay my fee & sent it to USEF. 2 weeks later I rec'd my horse's card (he already had a lifetime membership) with me now listed as owner. I never needed the owner who was listed to sign anything since they were no longer involved in the situation. USEF was very helpful when I called.

                ETA--Sorry, I can't cut & paste, but go to the USEF website. Click Horse Services on the left side, then Forms & Guidelines. Ownership Affidavit (3rd from the top) is the form I used. You can say you weren't given the USEF card cause horse was sold to you by a 3rd party (horse dealer) & not direct from owner?
                Last edited by Giddy-up; Mar. 21, 2012, 04:47 PM. Reason: adding info
                "I'm not crazy...my mother had me tested"

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  Giddy-upp, are you by chance talking about the Ownership Affidavit? I was just on their website to see if they had anything for a situation like this

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ForeverandAlways View Post
                    Giddy-upp, are you by chance talking about the Ownership Affidavit? I was just on their website to see if they had anything for a situation like this
                    Yes. But I would call the number listed on that form first. I did this almost 3 years ago now so not sure if their procedures have changed.
                    "I'm not crazy...my mother had me tested"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ForeverandAlways View Post
                      Giddy-upp, are you by chance talking about the Ownership Affidavit? I was just on their website to see if they had anything for a situation like this
                      The USEF transfer form has required the signature of the previous USEF recorded owner for several years.

                      I've used the ownership affidavit to transfer ownership but in that cass I had a bill of sale from the prior owner ( who was the USEF recorded owner). The prior owner was out of the country at the time and was unable to locate the USEF recording certificate. Trainer or Agent signatures are not acceptable by USEF.

                      As others suggsested, you probably want to call USEF. You may have a problem because the folks you bought the pony from don't have any proof that they own the pony.

                      And if all else fails you can do what everybody else does.
                      Simply create a new recording for the pony. You'll get a new recording number and you are good to go. LOL

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I find that email very strange. I'm assuming she's upset that she didn't get the money from the sale in addition to all the other stuff but didn't she state that the original purpose was that the pony was there to be sold?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ForeverandAlways View Post
                          Hey Guys,
                          I just bought this pony jumper from a local barn near me. About a week after purchasing him I emailed the selling asking if they have the bill of sale from the previous owner so I can do an ownership change with USEF as the pony is still listed under her name. I never got a message back about the bill of sale from the sellers. I thought it was kind of strange, but I just let it go figuring they just never saw the message. They willingly gave me the pony's USEF number, so I didn't think anything of it.
                          I had talked to the pony's USEF listed owner last spring about possibly taking her a couple of her ponies to train and show, so I had her email and I decided to shoot her an email to see if I could get her to sign the papers and this is what I got in response....... I'm looking to qualify him for PF's for this year and need his card.

                          Hi Lauren,
                          Unfortunately I will not sign the papers. I had free leased my ponies to them with no contract as long as they advertise to sell them. Few months into the lease I asked that I needed them sold because I need the money since they weren't advertising or I would take them back. I even tried showing up and taking my horses and she called the cops. I got a lawyer involved but we never went to court. She said if I wanted my ponies back I would have to pay her the expenses of both ponies. A free lease or any kind of lease is when the leasee takes full responsibility and pays all the expenses not the owner. At the end of the said lease (November 2011) she wouldn't give them back to me unless I paid. I am not going to pay for them to free lease my ponies and make money off of it.
                          So I am sorry but I will not sign anything. Also good luck trying to qualify for pony finals. If your not showing in the jumpers you probably won't do good. I owned him for years trying to turn him into a hunter/equitation pony and only for a month he was good enough to show in the hunters then he started refusing.

                          If you are sure she doesn't want the pony back (get it in writing) then you can change the pony's name and register him under a new number.

                          Sadly this is done all the time, but often for nefarious reasons.
                          "He lives in a cocoon of solipsism"

                          Charles Krauthammer speaking about Trump

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I agree that the email response you got from the former owner sounds very unprofessional, the kind of thing a teenage girl who feels scorned might write. I assume this person is a professional if you were considering taking ponies for her to train/show. I don't know any respectable professional who would write something to extent of "good luck with that, you won't do good." If she is going to behave in that manner I would take everything she says with a grain of salt and wouldn't necessarily expect it all to be accurate; she sounds rather bitter and like she has some kind of agenda.

                            The bottom line is you can't be sure what really happened; I'd just get the pony a new USEF # and start fresh because neither of these people sound like individuals you want to be involved with. It is not uncommon for people to register horses or ponies under new numbers.

                            Good luck

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              Thanks everyone, the seller emailed me back after I sent her 4 more emails saying she's going to try and find the bill of sale. I guess we'll see what happens there. In the mean time give me some name suggestions. His Barn name is Pogo and he's a bay with no white.
                              I'd like to stay with the See Me names as my pony hunters are See Me Sparkle and See Me Shine

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                See Me Bounce?

                                Sorry, with a barn name like Pogo it had to be suggested :P
                                RIP Don - 3/28/2004-8/15/2012

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by ForeverandAlways View Post
                                  Thanks everyone, the seller emailed me back after I sent her 4 more emails saying she's going to try and find the bill of sale. I guess we'll see what happens there. In the mean time give me some name suggestions. His Barn name is Pogo and he's a bay with no white.
                                  I'd like to stay with the See Me names as my pony hunters are See Me Sparkle and See Me Shine
                                  See Me Soar
                                  See Me Fly
                                  See Me Sail

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    I presume this pony's going to make you a happy girl -- See Me Smile?

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      New number

                                      I think there could be huge problems if the OP did this without going through USEF channels on this ponys ORIGINAL number. The horse/ponys # stays with it just about forever unless the federation decides it's ok to change it and gives permission. The problem is that the pony can only be shown under the USEF registered/recorded owner and it is a rule violation to do it any other way and will come back on the OP. They need to take their issue to an attorney and USEF and NOT just get another number without USEF express permission..THAT is looking for trouble.

                                      Originally posted by westie55 View Post
                                      The bottom line is you can't be sure what really happened; I'd just get the pony a new USEF # and start fresh because neither of these people sound like individuals you want to be involved with. It is not uncommon for people to register horses or ponies under new numbers.

                                      Good luck
                                      [url]http://www.horseshowbiz.com
                                      [url]http://www.ijumpsports.com

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        ???

                                        Originally posted by Lord Helpus View Post
                                        If you are sure she doesn't want the pony back (get it in writing) then you can change the pony's name and register him under a new number.

                                        Sadly this is done all the time, but often for nefarious reasons.
                                        Not good advice...yes it is done "all the time" BUT USEF is working diligently on stopping this way of skateing around the rules. If the OP does that and gets caught, it is a rule violation SO I would suggest she takes the time and energy to do it the right way. Bummer it would be to get caught up a rule violation in this situation...... JMHO
                                        [url]http://www.horseshowbiz.com
                                        [url]http://www.ijumpsports.com

                                        Comment

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