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Curious: thoughts on instituting ride times

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  • #21
    Originally posted by SoBeIt View Post
    Do the dressage shows allow post entries? We almost always pre-enter, but when we show up the number of entrants balloons....how does that work in dressage world?
    Dunno how it works at dressage shows but this is how I would do it at a hunter show:
    Everybody that enters by the preentry date gets at the top of the list. Anyone who enters after that gets on the list behind them, order of go and times posted by 5 pm the night before the show starts. That's how I would do it anyway.
    IF you decide at the show that you want to enter another class, fine but you get to go at the bottom of the list.
    "Perhaps the final test of anybody's love of dogs is their willingness to permit them to make a camping ground of the bed" -Henry T. Merwin

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    • #22
      Originally posted by Tex Mex View Post
      If a trainer has 5 riders in different rings at the same time, it would be impossible.
      I've never understood why a rider requires their trainer in order to go into the ring. Or perhaps I should rephrase that...I don't understand why a trainer feels they must be standing at the ingate yelling instructions to their riders as they go. I could never hear the trainer (or want to focus on them instead of my riding) when I was in the ring anyway. They might as well be off helping someone less audibly challenged than me.

      I'm all for ride times in one form or fashion. I also agree with the poster who said anyone who isn't there for a posted order of go loses out on their class. Exhibitors should show respect for their fellow (tired, hot, exhausted) exhibitors and their horses.

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      • Original Poster

        #23
        Huh - I've been away from the show ring for waaay too long and don't ever recall having general class times with an order of go. To me, that's the perfect compromise between a free-for-all and specific ride times.

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        • #24
          I would like a strictly enforced order of go, I like the waiting around of shows, it's a nice way to spend a really nice day. Another thing dressage does that I love is that they get judge's comments, I think it'd help with furthering (is that a word? lol) riding style and horse quality.
          Who needs wings when you've got a jumper?
          http://darkstr.webs.com

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          • #25
            Yes yes yes ride times pleeease!! Or at the VERY least, orders of go for each class. I never minded the classic "hurry up and wait" nonsense, but after a show last month where I didn't show until 7:30 at night and the ring would sit empty for 20 minutes at a time, I've had enough!!!

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            • #26
              It certainly could be done. Of course there would be a learning curve. I expect shows run this way would be very well attended. Given a choice, I for one would always choose to attend a show run this way vs. one that isn't.
              Wish someone would try it and let us know how it worked!
              Some days the best thing about my job is that the chair spins.

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              • #27
                re waiting for trainer: Small B show with ONE ring. Rider REFUSED to go into her class until her trainer was ring side. She was the last rider of the class and has been riding for many years. There we all sat waiting until the trainer came-10 minutes or so! Rider claimed she was paying for the service and expected it and the show waited. Another case of a show not wanting to upset someone that brings a string. No ring conflict here, just a trainer that was eithe distracted or rude!

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                • #28
                  If show B only had 1 ring maybe trainer wasn't being distracted or rude but actually had to hit the port a pot???

                  My trainer likes to be ringside when her students show so that she can give tips between rounds to improve the next round. Sometimes showing reveals holes that don't show up as clearly during lessons. She wants to watch the classes so that she can tailor the next couple of lessons to fill in those holes or strengthen a weakness. Show nerves has a tendency to change a lot of things. For many riders just having those last calming words, tips- remember to breathe instructions as you go in can help with focus.
                  For me I don't show much at all- therefore my horse at home tends to be good, solid and lazy. At a show he tends to be a different ride- more forward but a little peeky at new jumps and things outside the ring. Not bad just different. Having trainer at the in-gate as I walk in can be that extra crutch I need.

                  However that being said I think that some trainers are better than others at working with ring stewards so that the holds are minimized. I have seen where trainers will check in with both ring stewards and a 2 ring show and say I have X# in Ring 1 and Y# in Ring 2. The stewards then tell them Ring 2 is running behind so that ring has priority. Or the stewards will juggle the students in both rings to minimize the conflict.

                  I also don't see how posted times and having to pre-enter everything by 5pm the night before would work.

                  Plenty of times I have entered one division and decided that I really wanted to do another division because horse was good or needed to do another division since horse needed a few more classes that day to really get focused on doing his job in the ring. I think that is especially important for green horses to have that flexibility.
                  Oh, well, clearly you're not thoroughly indoctrinated to COTH yet, because finger pointing and drawing conclusions are the cornerstones of this great online community. (Tidy Rabbit)

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                  • #29
                    I am sorry, as I see it, it would not work...not with the now a day 3,4,5 ring circus. My trainer runs from one ring to the other to the other, with her rides and her students rides...will never happen...I can see posting an order for the big jumper classes and hunters stakes and classics but for all the other stuff...I can't see how it would ever work....Horse show management is so greedy that the million classes a day must go on.......for another topic

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                    • #30
                      I have been eventing for the past year and a half now and I must say, the scheduled times are "sorta" nice. I do like that A. I know when to get there in the morning for the amount of time I need, and B. I can tell people when I am going to show. But even there people move up and get dropped back just like at the H/J shows sometimes! I drove all the way down to Fair Hill one day to watch my friend only to find out that they forced him to move up from his time!

                      At H/J shows I don't think it would work at larger shows that have multiple rings. Sometimes trainers have to be at 4 rings at once. And even if the show *tried* to schedule it well, what happens when the trainer needs a potty break, has to grab a snack before they pass out, needs to school an ornery greenie, or have to help tack up a student's pony because their not rich little A show hoppers with grooms to do everything for them?

                      I also don't agree that people who add classes should be moved to the bottom of the order all the time. It's one thing for bigger classes, classics, or money classes, but every class? Massively inconvenient and I'm not even sure it's fair.

                      I think the compromise that I can see most likely to work smoothly would be to pick one, maybe two at a large show that will run off of a set time schedule with a posted order. Most likely the ring with the most entries. That way it gives each trainer in there a set time they need to be at THAT ring to keep things moving, and yet some flexibility with the others. I also believe in the clock at the gate when there are obvious entries waiting to go.
                      ...for there are wings on these hooves, the speed and power of foam-capped waves...
                      *~v~*~v~*~v~*~v~*~v~*~v~*~v~*
                      Proud member of the artists clique

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                      • #31
                        Originally posted by Jaegermonster View Post
                        Dunno how it works at dressage shows but this is how I would do it at a hunter show:
                        Everybody that enters by the preentry date gets at the top of the list. Anyone who enters after that gets on the list behind them, order of go and times posted by 5 pm the night before the show starts. That's how I would do it anyway.
                        IF you decide at the show that you want to enter another class, fine but you get to go at the bottom of the list.
                        Only problem with this is that some riders emphatically prefer to go near the end. Some prefer to go early. Some trainers may want all their people to go in a cluster. You should be able to accommodate these preferences. You just should NOT have "dead air." Put your number(s) in with the starter. Give the gate folk timers with loud bells, and teach them how to use them consistently. If the rider is not there within 1 minute of being called they get skipped. If no one is there within a minute of "last call" the class is over. Missed it? Too bad, so sad... Bonus $ to the starters for being tough.

                        If they can do it at Spruce Meadows, why not everywhere? If this policy was enforced the trainers would learn...
                        madeline
                        * What you release is what you teach * Don't be distracted by unwanted behavior* Whoever waits the longest is the teacher. Van Hargis

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                        • #32
                          Originally posted by WB Mom View Post
                          It certainly could be done. Of course there would be a learning curve. I expect shows run this way would be very well attended. Given a choice, I for one would always choose to attend a show run this way vs. one that isn't.
                          Wish someone would try it and let us know how it worked!
                          All you need is time travel. Even the leakiest or leaky-roof shows used to operate like this 40 years ago. Everyone knew that they better be there when their number was called.

                          Of course, that was before trainers took over Horse Show Land...
                          madeline
                          * What you release is what you teach * Don't be distracted by unwanted behavior* Whoever waits the longest is the teacher. Van Hargis

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                          • #33
                            I did an A rated show last month that had a posted order of go for the large hunter divisions (Adult amateur, etc). It was GREAT. LOVED IT!!!! If the ring opens at 8 and I am listed as #25 in the order, I have a general idea when I will be going in the ring. The ring was never empty - there was always a steady stream of horses going in. With an enormous division that takes all day to run, I felt it was the best way to organize.

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                            • #34
                              Originally posted by Blinky View Post
                              I'm with Fleur. Part of the joy for me is hanging out at the horse shows and having it be not so structured as my everyday work life....besides if you stay on top of it is pretty easy to determine when you will go.
                              Y'all should go to a dressage show sometime. Knowing your ride times makes it EASIER to hang out and relax. For instance, when I know my first test is at 10:15, and my next one is at 1:20, what do you think I'm doing between classes before I tack up and warm up for the second one? I'm hanging out!
                              Donald Trump - proven liar, cheat, traitor and sexual predator! Hillary Clinton won in 2016, but we have all lost.

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                              • #35
                                unfortunately, ride times would not work, rails down would cause all the times to be off. But - pre-entries and orders of go would be great, for all rings, posted the night before, that way trainers could work their schedules. those that entered late, go at the end! Daughter did a CT years ago, and loved it, you had a set time for both dressage and jumping, it worked great!

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                                • #36
                                  All they need at the back gate is a white board to list all the riders in the division and how many trips beside their name and a approx start time for the division. Then trainers can see and have the back gate make adjustments in the order to suit trainer conficts. All riders and trainers have to do is count. Water and drags listed too. Done in the PNW, works great. THis is the closest you can come to some sort of a time slot. Its the trainers that don't give a S*** that gets me. "I'm a BNT and I'll show up to school my student whenever" ( but first she needs to do 50 practice jumps, take 10 minutes to learn her course and 15 to put on her coat and polish the boots and hoofs hoofs.)

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                                  • #37
                                    I've shown dressage, eventers, and done a bit of hunters - many of the larger dressage shows have 4, 5, or 6 rings going at once, and events have dressage, X-C, and stadium frequently all going at the same time for different levels - and it usually works for the trainers. Entries from one farm are sent in as a group, and the trainer can request (although is certainly not guaranteed!) workable ride times to help everyone out and see everyone go. It works.

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                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by Madeline View Post
                                      Only problem with this is that some riders emphatically prefer to go near the end. Some prefer to go early. Some trainers may want all their people to go in a cluster. You should be able to accommodate these preferences. You just should NOT have "dead air." Put your number(s) in with the starter. Give the gate folk timers with loud bells, and teach them how to use them consistently. If the rider is not there within 1 minute of being called they get skipped. If no one is there within a minute of "last call" the class is over. Missed it? Too bad, so sad... Bonus $ to the starters for being tough.

                                      If they can do it at Spruce Meadows, why not everywhere? If this policy was enforced the trainers would learn...

                                      Wellllll, I think we have too much catering to trainers and coddling of riders, but that is another topic that has been done to death.
                                      I agree that stewards and judges need to be tougher about empty rings and trainers holding them up for more than the time it takes to walk or ride your golf cart from one ring to the other.
                                      I don't agree that you should be able to accomodate everyone. That is not possible. It's a horse show, people should be able to go in the ring and get it done. When you actually go really only "matters" in a jumper class where the time counts and you need to know how fast to go.
                                      "Perhaps the final test of anybody's love of dogs is their willingness to permit them to make a camping ground of the bed" -Henry T. Merwin

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                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by Jaegermonster View Post
                                        I don't agree that you should be able to accomodate everyone. That is not possible. It's a horse show, people should be able to go in the ring and get it done.
                                        Exactly.

                                        It's great to have a trainer help you analyze your ride, or plan it. But one would think that if a rider is capable of showing, they don't *need* the trainer ringside in order to go. I love the idea of a posted order of go and time limits on waiting. Perhaps then something trainers can teach at home is the ability to independently analyze a course, and then independently critique ones own ride.

                                        The whole "I can't go because my trainer is on the other side of the show grounds" thing just seems weird to me. If trainers were doing a good job training, wouldn't their students be able to handle two minutes in the ring without them, and know basically what to do and how to describe what went wrong? No? Am I living in Unicorn and Fairy world?

                                        "smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

                                        My CANTER blog.

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                                        • #40
                                          This is the MOST absolute reason I have stopped showing! It's different when you are at an away show where you have a stall for your horse..but at the majority of the B's and C's UGH! Trainer calls horse show office in the morning to get an idea of when certain classes will go. It's always HURRY UP AND WAIT! You get there and half the time the ring is standing empty because of trainer conflicts in other rings. Meanwhile your poor horse stands on the trailer and then you play the guessing game of when to get ready. And the worst of all is when just about everyone has done their over fences except for one and you wait another hour to hack! Just no fun anymore. It has absolutely gotten worse over the years. Yes, things could change if horse show management started enforcing rules. Trainers may finally stop running the shows!

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