• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Equitation AND Hunters = non existent?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Equitation AND Hunters = non existent?

    Why is it that no one seems to be able to keep from pinching with their knee and swinging their lower leg back over a fence in the hunter ring? How is it that Louise Serio had the only picture from the Hunter Spectacular that had a decent base of support?

    I understand at the lower levels that many riders are still building their foundation and muscle (not that in my very personal opinion you have any business jumping if you can't hold your position over a fence). I just don't understand why you are jumping over 3ft if you can't even keep your heels down let alone keep your leg in place.

    Yes, I know the rider isn't being judged. It just seems that back in the day the hunter riders had beautiful positions to go along with their beautiful horses. What are we missing? When did be okay for just the horse to look good?

    Are we seeing that form does not lead to function anymore? Are the horses so much nicer that a good position doesn't need to add to the picture?

    On a side note I do recognize that there are good hunter riders out there. I'm just wondering why they aren't the majority. And I'm trying to start a thoughtful discussion, not an argument

  • #2
    You do realize that several of the riders you saw in that picture collection are juniors who currently compete in the Big Eq, right?

    I don't like that most riders seem to throw eq out the window in the hunter ring, but they are focused on "selling" the horse. How powerful the jump is, staying out of the way, etc.
    The best sports bras for riders are Anita 5527 and Panache! Size UP in Anita, down in Panache (UK sizing)

    Comment


    • #3
      JustMyStyle, which group of people specifically would you like to discuss? New riders learning to jump? Top Hunter Riders? or Junior Riders?

      Could we have some background on you? Are you a Jr. Pro or AmmY? What and how often do you compete?

      I'm not trying to single you out, but wondering if you are at that level, riding those horses? I don't see the riders falling off, the horses are going great, and jumping super round, which is in fact what the judge's are biting to date. An eq horse doesn't jump that round, they hold a steadier topline that allows your leg to stay in place better. The eq riders are using a short crest release usually and the restricts the amount of reach the horse can produce with it's neck.
      Some of that position may be the riders playing up the drama, but my guess is rather the rider's are staying out of the horse's way, and letting it get up off the ground without any interference from them.

      I'm not saying that all the ducking, knee pinching, and laying on the neck is in theory, incorrect and poor equitation; but I am pretty sure they judge the HORSE in hunters, and we want to be ooooohed. Also, I am fairly positive that any of the riders in that gallery has a really solid base of support.
      Last edited by mrsbradbury; Feb. 20, 2012, 08:31 AM. Reason: took a moment to view gallery before finishing post

      Comment


      • #4
        Oh, good, we haven't had this discussion in AT LEAST a month.

        Isn't this the same poster who was wondering if it was ok to put 7 strides in a 4 or 5?
        According to the Mayan calendar, the world will not end this week. Please plan your life accordingly.

        Comment


        • #5
          Run a search... you'll find many heated discussions on this...

          That said, is it too early for popcorn and drinks?
          http://www.youtube.com/user/supershorty628
          Proudly blogging for The Chronicle of the Horse!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by supershorty628 View Post
            Run a search... you'll find many heated discussions on this...

            That said, is it too early for popcorn and drinks?
            Topics like these are why god created baileys and mimosas.
            Originally posted by JSwan
            Prove it....Otherwise, you're just coming off as a whackjob.
            Founding member of the "Not too Klassy for Boxed Wine" Clique

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              I'm just seeing that from earlier decades (such as the 70's and 80's) it seemed the riders looked as good as their horses. I'm really not trying to bash anyone, I'm honestly curious.

              mrsbradbury: it sounds like you think the quality of horses has gone up and the horse is throwing riders legs back. Is this a top big (AA 3'6" and up) hunter thing that turned into a trend? As to my background, I've never done hunters over fences and haven't shown at a rated show in many years, hence why I'm curious. I used to work with "problem horses" and teach beginner lessons so I am considered a pro....and I wish I was still a Jr
              Also, I was taught that a good base of support shows when you jump. I would agree that at that level you would have a good base of support, so why don't we see it? It's clearly not keeping the horses from jumping spectacularly. Is equitation over rated?

              loshad - I was asking how people felt about a very green horse (over fences) getting a double add in a five stride line.

              supershorty628 - I searched hunter equitation and didn't pull anything relevant, any key word search discussions?

              Comment


              • #8
                PART of the answer is that the Forward Seat (ala Vladimir Littauer and Jane Marshall Dillon) went out of fashion.

                Riders are not schooled in HOW to keep a stable lower leg, HOW to grip effectively (with the calf muscles NOT the knees which leads to the swinging lower leg), and now everyone uses the crest release, which under the Forward Seat system is only for beginning riders, intermediate riders then went on to the low release (hands lower on the sides of the neck) and advanced riders went on to the following release (GM's automatic release.)

                NO Forward Seat instructor I've had ever took any excuses for not keeping the lower leg at the girth at all times, on the flat or over jumps. Not giving the horse's head all the room it wanted over the jump was a major sin.

                Jane Marshall Dillon wrote a book, available used, called "Form Over Fences", a great book, heavily illustrated, full of what not to do and how to fix it. The nice thing is that she shows what is good and bad for beginning, intermediate and advanced riders. A great resource for developing the riding instructors' eyes.

                And back in those days a rider was not considered advanced unless they could consistently jump 4 feet in good form (including keeping a light contact over the jump.) Due to the problems with my undiagnosed MS I was considered a perpetual beginner in jumping because I could not jump higher than 3'6". My, how times have changed!!!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Um, do you honestly think that Scott Stewart and John French "are not schooled on HOW to keep a stable lower leg"?



                  OP, do a search. This is beyond tiresome.
                  ---
                  They're small hearts.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Trixie, she probably wouldn't let Richard Spooner ride her horse.

                    I still ride like a coked up lemur, so I'm not going to judge.
                    According to the Mayan calendar, the world will not end this week. Please plan your life accordingly.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Richard Spooner probably doesn't want to ride bareback with two dressage whips anyway.

                      Maybe they're riding "like that" because the horses were crooked in the womb. Like, counterbalancing it.
                      ---
                      They're small hearts.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I hate when people critique professionals equitation. They all do little things to get the best jump out of their horse. So what if their leg swings back and hits their butt! If they find all their distances and gets a terrific jump out of their horse, who gives a crap!? I would kill to ride like Scott Stewart, or Louise Serio, heels down or not.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by loshad View Post
                          Trixie, she probably wouldn't let Richard Spooner ride her horse.

                          I still ride like a coked up lemur, so I'm not going to judge.
                          That last sentence there.... Is brilliant. I'm going to be thinking of that while I ride today, lol!! Coked up lemur.... Heh heh heh

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by AliCat View Post
                            You do realize that several of the riders you saw in that picture collection are juniors who currently compete in the Big Eq, right?

                            I don't like that most riders seem to throw eq out the window in the hunter ring, but they are focused on "selling" the horse. How powerful the jump is, staying out of the way, etc.
                            They may be trying to do that, but it really isn't helping the horse jump any better. Proper form would help the horse a lot more then throwing yourself up their neck

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              What I find interesting is some of the riders have been taught a hunter style and an Eq style. For instance Lillie Keenan whom I love to watch - she has a distinctly different style riding the hunters - she is softer, and does actually duck to one side a bit (something she was obviously taught to do!) Yet when you see her in the Eq she is more "European" for lack of a better description - more upright between the jumps and perfectly centred over the horse when it jumps.

                              I actually think style should be one and the same regardless of which discipline you are competing in (hunter, jumper, equitation) But for some reason the (in my opinion) strange phenomenon of showing hunters using exagerated positions cropped up somewhere along the way.

                              But I'm just an observer these days. Haven't shown 3'6 for some time.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by bjd2013 View Post
                                I hate when people critique professionals equitation. They all do little things to get the best jump out of their horse. So what if their leg swings back and hits their butt! If they find all their distances and gets a terrific jump out of their horse, who gives a crap!? I would kill to ride like Scott Stewart, or Louise Serio, heels down or not.

                                There are many people out there who consider themselves a professional when they should not be. There is no need to pick on a Grand Prix Rider or Scott Stewart but many of those wannabes are teaching their bad habits to their students and telling them that what they do is okay

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I always laugh at these threads, when people try to make their point by saying 'back in the day' hunter riders didn't throw themselves up the neck, blah blah blah.

                                  Really? Ever look at the hunter pics of Rodney from the '70's and '80's? The leg swinging back? The loop in the reins/crest release? Hanging off to one side of the neck?

                                  Think his horses weren't almost always jumping great?

                                  Enough said.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    This thread is complaining about riders in the Hunter Spectacular - aka, some of the very best in the country. By all means, if you can outride them, go for it.
                                    ---
                                    They're small hearts.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      JustMyStyle, here you go.

                                      http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...rio+equitation

                                      http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...#39;s+position

                                      http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...#39;s+position

                                      http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...#39;s+position

                                      And that's not even all of them. As you can see, it's been done to death. Hope you have president's day off. You've got a lot of reading to do.
                                      "Aye God, Woodrow..."

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        I think this thread is actually pretty interesting. I was wondering the same thing. Could we please not turn this into a "ummm, why are you asking this?" Thread? If all you want to do is criticize the OP then just don't look at the thread.

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X