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If you don't know your horse's history; what division?

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  • If you don't know your horse's history; what division?

    Bought a horse back in November for a client. Bought the horse from someone who bought the horse at auction and then didn't do much with him. they gave me the auction seller's name, and I was able to find the horse on youtube jumping a 2'6" or so course at home. The blurb at the bottom stated he had jumped to 3'6", but nothing about showing (it was a sales video from 2009 I think).

    He does not have a passport or show record with EquineCanada, so if he showed, it would be schooling shows at most.

    I emailed and called the auction seller, but have not heard from them...which is odd, as I have had dealings with them in the past.

    I want to start the horse back in the cross poles as that is what the rider is suited to, but I would want an experienced rider to take him around first, which means either hors concours, or Baby Green...however I do not know if he has shown.

    What would you do?
    Freeing worms from cans everywhere!

  • #2
    Whats the horses name, maybe we've heard of him at some shows? If you can't find a record of him with Equine Canada and have asked around, I see nothing wrong with starting back out at xrails (they aren't rated so shouldn't cause a problem).

    You can also have your more experianced rider ride Hor's Courours as stated at any show, but then the owner cannot get on and show as well. I'd maybe not do baby greens just in case, but there's no reason why you can't do 1st year green, or even some of the low 2ft6 classes (which are open classes generally).

    The person that bought him can also do the novice show circuit, as they are for school horses (many of them have shown in their day and are now retired from that) and/or novice riders that have not shown over 2ft6.
    Go Ahead: This is a dare, not permission. Don't Do It!


    • #3

      Unfortunately, I don't know the answer to your question. However, as a soon to be Baby Greens competitor, I thank you for trying to find the right division for your horse and client.
      Kudos to you for taking the time to avoid putting a more experienced horse in the green divisions!
      "It is the tragedy of the world that no one knows what he doesn't know--and the less a man knows, the more sure he is that he knows everything." Joyce Cary


      • #4
        At our rated shows, only EC records count toward eligibility...but even at the rated shows the cross-rails are an unrated division. The Novice Horse division is also unrated at those shows, and is usually 2'6" or 2'9"...Short/Long is sometimes the same height, but it is rated, so you wouldn't want to Hors Concours in that one.

        Hence all the super fun low divisions where Pros ride at 2'6" against the beginner adults.

        Really though, that isn't a problem...if the Pro/Experienced person preps the horse in another non-rated division, there is no problem with your rider doing cross-rails.

        Just thinking out loud, I know you know all the rules and stuff. That would be my thought process in this scenario though.

        'Course, the big barns in our area don't really seem to care about eligibility even on Passported horses, and no one ever lodges complaints.
        Lifestyle coordinator for Zora, Spooky, Wolfgang and Warrior


        • #5
          If you bought a horse for a rider who is capable right now of just doing cross rails then (sticking my neck out here) I'd say the horse is not baby green. Depending on the horse's age (he's probably at least 6?) and has some type of training underneath him then I wouldnt mess w/ baby green - is there a Pre-Green or Green division there, or some of the open hunter divisions.
          I dont' know what the specifics of baby green are up there but our shows in my area that have a baby green division is restricted by 1st year showing over fences after Dec. 1 of the previous year.


          • #6
            Originally posted by gottagrey View Post
            If you bought a horse for a rider who is capable right now of just doing cross rails then (sticking my neck out here) I'd say the horse is not baby green. Depending on the horse's age (he's probably at least 6?) and has some type of training underneath him then I wouldnt mess w/ baby green - is there a Pre-Green or Green division there, or some of the open hunter divisions.
            I dont' know what the specifics of baby green are up there but our shows in my area that have a baby green division is restricted by 1st year showing over fences after Dec. 1 of the previous year.
            Yep, Baby Greens are for first yr of showing; Pre-Greens are then split into 2 (1st yr pre-green is one that has not competed at a Gold or Silver show in any classes over 2ft9 - they show at 3ft and under and cannot cross enter in classes over 3ft; 2nd Yr Pre-Green for those that have not competed over 3ft prior to Jan 1st of current yr-may not cross enter with classes 3ft6 or heigher)

            Green Hunters is a horse of any age, in its first or 2nd yr of showing in any classes in which the specs require the horse to jump 3ft6 or higher. When shown in Green Hunter, a horse in its 2nd yr of showing over fences 3ft6 or higher must be shown as a 2nd yr Green Hunter. Green status is gone once it competes over 3ft6! Therefore, if you've never shown OVER 3ft6 your horse can keep its green status!

            There are lots of low open hunters, generally at every height imaginable. A lot of trainers will use these classes to warm-up clients horses before the client rides. They are not recognized for national points.
            Go Ahead: This is a dare, not permission. Don't Do It!


            • Original Poster

              The ideal would be to have the horse able to be schooled over the same jumps as the owner would ride at, hence why I would like to be able to show him in the baby divisions. Usually the beginner rider and beginner horse show at the same time as an open card.

              One would think a first horse for a cross pole rider would be well trained/experienced, but, well, my client's sometimes have tight budgets, and we do the best we can.

              I have no idea what his show name could have been. We did not get papers with him, and the buyers just knew his race name. (I looked up his owner under EC, but could not find a horse matching his description under her name).

              Maybe showing Hors Concours is what we will have to do though. Maybe once I see his seller at a show I can get the full story on him though. It is too bad it has to be so complicated.
              Freeing worms from cans everywhere!


              • #8
                and how many...

                Import horses from EU.. Know the horse is jumping 1.2 meters, and enter the baby greens here???
                " iCOTH " window/bumper stickers. Wood Routed Stall and Farm Signs


                • Original Poster

                  Originally posted by grandprixjump View Post
                  Import horses from EU.. Know the horse is jumping 1.2 meters, and enter the baby greens here???
                  Ug, yep, I hate that. Although I suppose hunters ARE new to a horse for the EU.

                  The dishonesty in the hunter/jumper world (around here) is part of why I switched to dressage. I am sure there is as much dishonesty in dressage, but as I don't know the players as well, I don't see it!

                  I want to be honest, but at the same time give my student the best chance possible. The kid has worked really hard to get this horse from the mess he came as, to something pretty nice. I like that she was willing to put time and effort into rehabbing a horse she couldn't even sit on at first.

                  Hoping I see the previous owner at a dressage show or something before we hit the jumping shows so I can learn more about his history.

                  Just another example of why I wish horse's could have microchips with their history imbedded within!
                  Freeing worms from cans everywhere!