• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Could a green horse benefit from some dressage?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Could a green horse benefit from some dressage?

    I have a 7YO with 8 months of formal training (in a Pelham only). She has a good mind, she's smart, tries hard and wants to please. I'm a firm believer in the importance of flat work, but am at a barn where that is not emphasized to a great extent. I would think she would learn a lot from a dressage trainer. Is that a good idea? If so, would she be trained differently since she's a jumper? I'm thinking just a couple of months, so she could learn to move better laterally and to carry herself better. Input is appreciated. I've only had schoolmasters!

  • #2
    Simple answer is "of course."

    Only slightly less simple answer is "of course, with the right dressage trainer!"

    How green is the horse? Does she accept contact? Why is she in a pelham? What does she know? Is she a forward-thinking horse, or backward (i.e. does she want to go or does she suck back when stressed?)
    Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
    Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Rose2011 View Post
      I have a 7YO with 8 months of formal training (in a Pelham only). She has a good mind, she's smart, tries hard and wants to please. I'm a firm believer in the importance of flat work, but am at a barn where that is not emphasized to a great extent. I would think she would learn a lot from a dressage trainer. Is that a good idea? If so, would she be trained differently since she's a jumper? I'm thinking just a couple of months, so she could learn to move better laterally and to carry herself better. Input is appreciated. I've only had schoolmasters!
      It would absolutely be beneficial. Any good dressage trainer should be able to help you and your horse improve on the flat. And it really doesn't matter if you are aiming for hunters, jumpers, eq, eventing or upper level dressage: training-second level will be useful for all disciplines.

      Comment


      • #4
        My TB is 9, and he has really benefited from a little dressage. A dressage trainer worked with him and he was just a lot more responsive. No different training was used on him because he was for h/j.

        I remember seeing some awful dressage lifetime movie with Julie Benz that had a pretty accurate comparison:

        Dressage is like ballet - since ballet is a good foundation for other dance disciplines, so is dressage a good foundation for other equestrian disciplines.

        I'm not saying training to make her the next Blu Hors Matine () and be able to do perfect piaffes and passages, but any bending and balance exercises would help. Can a trainer come to you or would you have to bring her to another barn?

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          She's VERY forward, very heavy. You can get her to listen fairly well at the trot, but at the canter becomes a torpedo. I am riding her in a full-cheek snaffle, not a Pelham, and doing lots of transitions and trying to get her more responsive to a half-halt by rewarding anything resembling a positive response. There's a dressage barn right next to our jumper barn. I'm thinking I might be able to walk her over there for a lesson once or twice a week.

          Comment


          • #6
            Yes! Yes, yes yes. Especially if she's heavy. But be sure the trainer you're working with is a good trainer. If the trainer is good, I would recommend training rides as well. That way you can get some results that cross over into H/J without having to completely learn dressage yourself.
            "There are times when you can trust a horse, times when you can't, and times when you have to."

            Comment


            • #7
              YES
              Rule 1- Keep the horse between you and the ground.

              Comment


              • #8
                This is like asking "does grilled cheese go with tomato soup"

                yes yes yes yes yes Dressage does everyone good!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Absolutely. But, be careful who you choose to help you.

                  Remember, a heavy, forehandy warmblood torpedo is most likely just telling you what all young horses tell you in one way or another, that she is green and unbalanced. There is no quick fix for this, just a lot of good training to develop her body and her mind. Some good, correct dressage training will absolutely help make her more responsive, more aware of her body and help her carry herself better. (I.e. cramming her into a frame artificially to try to get a fast result ain't gonna help you.)

                  Also, remember that there are many excellent jumping exercises to get a young horse to learn to balance and carry themselves better.

                  Sending her out for a few months of dressage training is one approach. I'd also consider if there is someone you could trailer out to once or twice a week for a couple of months. I agree that a mix of training rides AND lessons with you on her would be best if you don't have much dressage experience.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Absolutely. My old lease was an ex-UL dressage horse and he was fabulous over fences because he was so much more responsive than other horses I rode.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I 100% agree that every horse needs to understand the basics, and "dressage" is the French word for training.

                      I would watch the trainer next door work with a young horse before deciding if he/she is the right person for you.

                      And make sure that your horse is trained to go in a medium frame. Some dressage trainers tend to get horses overflexed, so that their poll is lower than the crest of the neck.

                      If that becomes his normal frame, your horse can learn to evade your hand by dropping behind the bit to avoid contact.

                      Ask me how I know this.....

                      ALL that said, it sounds like your horse is a candidate for dressage training. Just make sure that you get the right one, not just the closest one.
                      "He lives in a cocoon of solipsism"

                      Charles Krauthammer speaking about Trump

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Dressage is like ballet - since ballet is a good foundation for other dance disciplines, so is dressage a good foundation for other equestrian disciplines
                        This, and I would take it a step further to say that ballet is a good foundation for movement in general, not just dance.

                        I found an excellent dressage coach a few months ago and asked her to help make me and my green OTTB better in the hunter and equitation disciplines. Thanks to our work with this coach, he and I have become a much more balanced and strong team. His stride is lengthening at the trot and even his walk makes a statement now! I use my hunt saddle for lessons, she doesnt want to convert me, she just wants to infuse some dressage basics into our normal routine. I highly recommend it.

                        I will add this little warning: my greenie is still figuring out where to put his feet, and using his backend differently is new to him, especially off the track. He has grabbed his front shoe once and clipped a pastern. My recommendation is that you have him wear bell boots for your dressage classes for protection.
                        "I am still under the impression there is nothing alive quite so beautiful
                        as a thoroughbred horse."

                        -JOHN GALSWORTHY

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Echoing what Lord Helpus said. There is a reason that dressage horses are supposed to start in a training level frame, which is very similar to a proper hunter frame. Which would be the kind of frame that a hunter trainer who applied proper training principles achieved. It's kind of a chicken or the egg thing.
                          Trinity Farm LLC
                          Quality hunters and jumpers at Midwest prices
                          Like us on Facebook:
                          https://www.facebook.com/TrinityFarmLLC

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Good Dressage, yes. Crank and Spank Dressage, NO.

                            Good dressage addresses relaxation, straightness, transitions, both within the gaits and from gait to gait, supplesness, obedience, the list goes on. All things very good for a hunter.

                            HOWEVER, I would spend time watching prospective Dressage trainers and find one who is very good with young/green horses.
                            Patty
                            www.rivervalefarm.com
                            Follow us on facebook - https://www.facebook.com/pages/River...ref=ts&fref=ts

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I have a coming 4y/o dutch mare and I have always ridden hunter/jumpers but from when I first started her and up until now I have only taken lessons from a well seasoned dressage coach.

                              Youngsters especially will benefit from classic dressage training as it teaches them lightness of the aids, relaxation, improves their gaits etc right from the start, so it is all they know. Thus, giving you a good foundation for future training.

                              But all horses benefit from correct dressage training.

                              I will continue to take atleast one dressage lesson per month and use those aspects in my hunter training with her as well.


                              You will see big improvements! Trust me.
                              http://dotstreamming.blogspot.com/

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by pryme_thyme View Post
                                I have a coming 4y/o dutch mare and I have always ridden hunter/jumpers but from when I first started her and up until now I have only taken lessons from a well seasoned dressage coach.

                                Youngsters especially will benefit from classic dressage training as it teaches them lightness of the aids, relaxation, improves their gaits etc right from the start, so it is all they know. Thus, giving you a good foundation for future training.

                                But all horses benefit from correct dressage training.

                                I will continue to take atleast one dressage lesson per month and use those aspects in my hunter training with her as well.


                                You will see big improvements! Trust me.
                                This. I am EXTREMELY fortunate that my trainer is a classical dressage trainer (and a good one) who also happens to have a background in hunters, so not only am I and my horses getting correct training on the flat, I can get it over fences too.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  yes

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Watch the video posted under the "Starting the OTTB: GREAT video" thread. It is excellent advice on how to start any horse from a total greenie to one needing a better foundation. You should be able to get quite far (although maybe not as fast) following the advice on that video.

                                    Help them find their own balance
                                    Don't worry about the head
                                    Don't ask for/expect perfection
                                    Praise them
                                    Quit before they are tired
                                    Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
                                    Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      In a word: Absolutely.

                                      A long time ago I lucked into finding a good dressage trainer. She worked with my OTTB and me in a way that preserved our hunter background but really helped improve her balance, suppleness, straightness and general way of going. She helped me become more in tune with the mare and what she was doing. I only worked with her for a short time, but it really gave me a solid background in good flatwork.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Yep! But be sure you are riding with a dressage trainer who is fully aware and in agreement with you wanting the horse for JUMPING and not straight dressage. You are going to want this horse to be a little bit more forward than your typical dressage horse, and it's easiest to work towards this from the start instead of trying to get it later.

                                        My trainer trains jumpers, but has some background in classical dressage. All upper-level jumper prospects must be able to perform about 4th level decently well (correctly, but not as exaggerated) before they can move up. This means pirrouhettes, half-pass, and collection. It's sososososososo hard for those of us who learned to ride/sit on hunters to actually have to RIDE and influence the horse, but it's worth it. You end up with a much nicer horse to ride.

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X