Green to Grand Prix

[Irishjumper]

Anyone train or own a horse that was started and made it to the Grand prix ring? If so, I would love to hear your story and how long it took.

[RyuEquestrian]

Almost there.... purchased her as a yearling and now she's competing in the Level 7's as a young 8 year old.

[andy.smaga]

I'll tell you how long it take for a very talented jumper to get to the GP.
Start at 3y/o and at 7 they can be successful at 1.45 meter, at 8 at 1.50 meter and at 9 at 1.60 meter.
This is valid for top horses that have the scope, the mind, the carefulness, the soundness, the willingness, the right rider, the... and so on...

[Hauwse]

I'll tell you how long it take for a very talented jumper to get to the GP.
Start at 3y/o and at 7 they can be successful at 1.45 meter, at 8 at 1.50 meter and at 9 at 1.60 meter.
This is valid for top horses that have the scope, the mind, the carefulness, the soundness, the willingness, the right rider, the... and so on...

Some times this is the way it goes, sometimes not.

A long time ago, before today's levels existed, it was preliminary, intermediate, and open jumpers. My first GP horse was a successful TB doing open hunters, who became my junior jumper, and worked his way to the open jumpers. I think it took a span of about 4 years, but that had much more to do with me getting experience in the ring, nothing to do with him. Back then I believe the open hunter height max was 4'3" -4'6", and so was the junior jumper division, so it was not a big step for him. He was the perfect horse to learn the jumpers on as he never treated the big jumper classes any different than the big hunter classes, and for a couple years did them both at the same time.

Most recent mare was a TB who had been sitting in the field for years. Bought her at 7, started in the hunters her first year, to get her show experience, went to 4' (level 6) for half a year or so, and steadily moved up over the next two years, started doing GP last year, so about 3 years. She is extremely mare-ish, blew a rear tendon kicking at another horse going onto the trailer, and is now going to be a mom.

The thing is it may not take a super long time to develop a horse that can jump a GP size/type course physically, but it generally does take a long time in the GP ring for them to get used to the mental demands. In my experience it takes a horse 3 or 4 years, if they can handle it, to get to the rock steady stage, where you can honestly go into the ring and really attempt to be competitive with them. I think that is why so many of them today peak around 16 years old, though I have seen a few in the big ring at 7 or 8 and handling themselves pretty well and being competitive, but not Authentic/Sapphire competitive.

The other factor is keeping them sound. We see GP horses competing regularly, but trust me, probably 90 percent of them have issues, and keeping them sound and healthy becomes a big, big part of getting them there and keeping them there.

I do think however, that today, it generally works the way andy.smaga has stated. With the retirement age being 18, you have to kind of follow the levels if you if you want any type of consistent success before they age out.

[findeight]

Never had any but was very close to one.

Imported one fall as a 5 year old already quite able at 1.3m and getting over 1.4m easy although still pretty Green and not alot of fences in it. That is pretty typical of alot of the imports, they are proven ability wise but very low mileage and not so much polish.

Carefully brought through the flatwork and up the levels, carefully making sure he was ready for each step. Quite good, paid it's own way.

Stepped into the GP ring as a near 8 year old about 2 1/2 years after stepping off the plane. Did well, time faults at first then started getting in the money. Won it's first GP that same spring.

Then it broke, just took that dreaded funny step trotting around nowhere near a jump. Rehabbed-took over a year-came back and somehow got scared of the really big sticks. Last I heard it was doing high ch/ad and some low Jr A.O. and was a tricky ride.

Not for the faint of heart. Owner went back to Hunters, now does Derbies.

[NancyM]

Yes, I've done it, as a teenager to mid 20s. Just to local grand prix, not international level grand prix, we just could not afford to travel that much. But in the Pacific Northwest, I had a good one. Just stumbled apon him too, bought him as a long yearling from one of our successful race breeders in the province here. Our farrier/family friend/mentor broke him for me when I was 13, and rode him half a dozen times. Then I was legged onto him, I have the picture my dad took at that moment.

He was a big rangey gelding, big boned and massive built. And still the craziest horse I have ever had to do with I think. But he doted on me, and had a huge jump in him. Incredibly brave. I was an adequate teenage rider, who had aspirations. Had been successful in the jr hunters and equitation divisions. And my parents did not subscribe to letting a trainer dictate our decisions re horse purchase and sales. Which of course, made the local coach dislike me fairly substantially, and the horse. So I worked with him pretty much alone, without regular coaching. But I did take him to good clinicians, when they came to town. Bob Woodington, Inez F-C-P for dressage, Cathy Wedge through pony club. Then on to other top clinicians, some local like Michael Patrick, Jay Campf, and on to George Morris, when he came to town too.

At first, I was thinking and hoping that he would just be a kid's show horse, at some local level. But by the time I was seventeen, and he was six, he was jumping around well in the jr jumper division, and the bigger the jumps were, the better he got. It encouraged me to continue with the jumper plan. Through the following years, as we progressed up the levels to Open and Grand Prix, I hoped that the courses would be set big enough to get him to slow down and look at the jumps. If it was too low, he would rush. The jumps had to be big enough to slow him down. The bigger the course, the more care he would take. Add 25 lbs of lead under the saddle, which I had to do to make weight in the open division, and he would jump even higher, over compensate for it. I would hope for at least 4'6". He did some unbelievable things for me in the show ring, and every time I went in the ring with him, I knew I was sitting on the best horse at the show. No matter who was at the show. I may not have been the best rider, I may have made mistakes that the older, more experienced riders may not have made, but I had the best horse, and he looked after me. If I could just learn the course, get on, sit down, and hang on, and stay out of his way, that was my job. It was like being mounted on a rocket from NASA. Lead him through the in gate, and light the fuse. He was very competitive, and we were quite successful for a number of years. I had a number of offers to sell this horse over the years, good offers, but he was not for sale. I knew how lucky I was to have him, and it was not like I could walk out and buy another one like him. He was my "ticket to ride", in the bigger divisions, at that point in my life. And we were very close. Over the years, I have had other, very good horses, jumpers and racehorses, but he still shines as the one special horse in my life, so many years ago now. I am forever grateful for what he did for me.

As the previous poster said, keeping them sound is always a problem, and one learns how to nurse a crock. Because problems develop. It took me about 5 years to get him to local open/GP level, but we were both learning together and were both young. And one of the main local coaches in the area refused to teach me on him because she looked into my seventeen year old face and told me he was "too untalented and dangerous" for her to be associated with. She tried to recant that sentence, later in life, when she was shown up to be a fool. But believe me, I still remember it word for word. She saw him make a mistake once, as a four year old, in a 3' hunter class, left the last stride out before a jump at a show.

Anyway, I don't know what you wanted to hear with this request here, but yes, it can be done. Just like a good racehorse (which I later specialized in), you can't create the talent if it isn't there naturally. If you can get a good one, and not ruin him during the training process, he will go as far as his talent takes him, if you as owner/rider/trainer don't screw up too bad. As always, the trick is to make the relationship with him, where he will die for you if you ask him to. If you both have talent and can read his mind, and he can read yours, and know what each other thinks/feels, you will know more about him and how to ride the course than anyone on the ground.

Pics of this horse on my website, in the "Gallery".

[tuckawayfarm]

I'll tell you how long it take for a very talented jumper to get to the GP.
Start at 3y/o and at 7 they can be successful at 1.45 meter, at 8 at 1.50 meter and at 9 at 1.60 meter.
This is valid for top horses that have the scope, the mind, the carefulness, the soundness, the willingness, the right rider, the... and so on...

I agree, this time line seems realistic. Haven't been fortunate enough to own a 1.60 jumper, but we have had some at 1.50.

The two that were started from scratch both moved up to 1.50 at eight. The big difference was the age they were started. One we acquired as a six year old who had been standing in a field. Being physically mature and smart, he easily went from .85 puddle jumpers to 1.50 in two years. You can't do that with a growing youngster. The latest one was bought at two and did the young jumpers. He moved up to the 1.50 at eight last year. He has more scope than the first one, but not the mental ability... (crossing fingers he figures it out at nine )

I think your best bet, after finding the talent, is working with someone who has taken many horses to that level. While I have known quite a few horses to have a good sense of humor at 1.35m, they are not always able to be so forgiving at 1.50. It would be a loss to have your learning curve damage their confidence.

[louisem]

It's too tempting,I have to play....
Sometimes things don't turn out like you expect,but every so often, you get a glimpse of talent and you follow it....
It starts like this,in 1996 I bought a rather ugly,gangly chestnut gelding at a local free-jumping sale. I had seen him in the program with a photo and his breeding,and knew his mother (incidently also turned out a Championship horse) The place was full of top dealers and 'important' horse people and this rather brutal,orange,humoungous-headed chap,seemingly failed to charm the crowd. At the age of 3,with his shock of porridge-coloured mane,great big feet and an air of 'greatness' about him,he barged his way down the jumping lane,leaving legs dangling,taking strides out and generally acting the bully! I fell in love!!!! We took him home,ignoring disparaging remarks from well known experts and he started on his long road to fame.....
I had never had a horse who soooooo wanted to get to the other side of a jump. Any jump. ANY JUMP. Even jumps we were not supposed to jump. Fences around arenas,fences around fields,fences anywhere.... I discovered he had a mouth of silk. Unfortunately he also had a neck made of rubber!
To cut a long story short,we had a mixed career in the young horse classes. Despite an unorthodox front leg technique,we rarely had fences,but were often eliminated for jumping out of the arena or jumping (a much bigger) fence in the ring or one the wrong way.... He would just lock-on and go 'Yeah!'
We sold him on as a 6yo (I was expecting a baby)and due to his ways,he might have taken a roundabout route to stardom,but, Hey....
I met him again 10 years later at a show local to us,Aachen. Our eyes met across the warm-up. He gave me that look that said 'Watch me!'
I did.
Quervo Gold..... Silver medal team 2006.
Hey-ho....
In 2002 we bought 2 youngsters,both colts,both by Darco. They could not have been more different. One of them,a big,cuddly-looking guy with guileless eyes and huge,soup-plate feet,followed us,quietly in from a field with about 15 other colts,who were charging around,biting and kicking each other,round about us. We saw him in an covered school,jumping a cross pole in trot in a way that made SO and I go very pale. The price made us go paler still.... With child no 1 at the school gate,waiting for us to pick her up,child no 2 red-faced and screaming in the child seat in the car and child no 3 just about big enough to start giving me heartburn, we realised that we couldn't go home without this modest,genious of a horse....
The other colt,the one that looked uncannily like a liver chestnut goat (and about as big) I first met on the side of a mountain (probably a hill) in France. This time both child 1 and 2 present (and 3 in an abstract way)
Luckily,for this chap,it managed to blow a gale,hail and snow at the same time and we were so gobsmacked by the arrogant way he skipped over fences bigger than himself,on the side of a mountain,in a storm that we hadn't actually realised we could have saved ourselves money on transport and taken him home then,in the trunk of the car....
Big,soppy chap kept his bits,french goat,however,did not.
Both these horses stole my heart in millions of different ways. I didn't do too much with them at 4 and 5. As they became 6,it was more and more obvious that lightning does,sometimes strike twice. My big lad,had an amazing personality,so kind,so wise. I could leave him with my children (all 3 under 8) and trust him totally, his ability was almost alien,he sensed everything before I even asked. There was no limit to his scope. As a 7yo we won our provincial championship (only one with 7 clear rounds) we won 3 six-bar competitions at 2.05m and our first international Grand Prix. At 8 he was approved as a stallion and we jumped our first 1.60 classes. Awesome! For me,a 40 year old mother of 3????
Goat-boy,turned out to be,not such a goat-boy,after all.
An out and out competitor,sharp as a needle and a crafty little eating machine! First on the truck,stuck his head in the bridle every time and with a heart he threw over the biggest,widest fences,knees under his nose. In our long and colourful career he won a 6 year old championship with over 275 horses in,many speed classes and qualified many a time for the Grand Prix so I could save Big Lad for the sunday finale! He even got a gold medal at the European champs with child no 1 'children on horses'
And so,things come to pass,and life goes on,both these special,special friends have found their new challenges.
Big-Lad?
Amaretto d'Arco (Shane Sweetnam)
Goat-boy?
Manneken du Coty (Charlie Jayne and Madeline Thatcher)
And now?
Watch this space.....

[HorseLuvr]

Pretty cool Louisem!!!!! Thanks for the great stories!! You sure know how to pick a good one!

[Irishjumper]

Wow thanks everyone for your great stories. I have come across a very talented seven year old with very limited hunter miles. I think she has the scope, im just not so sure about the mind. She seems to like to jump but she has been confused along the way somehow. She leaps in the air when she gets confused..and im not sure exactly what to do. She seems to have everything i love. An uphill canter, soft mouth, beautiful style. But im worried that the leaping through the air on the way down to a jump or after is something im not going to be able to deal with . Ive tried being agressive with her and ride her through it and ive tried being softer with her...sneaking up on jumps. Some days it better and she does it less if shes lunged first. I have a chance to buy this horse, but im on the fence..no pun intended. I want to try to make one as im not going to be able to go out and buy one made. Ive made many hunters and retrained jumpers, but never had a green jumper with this much talent,. Im wondering if i should pass and look for one thats more straight forward and kind. I usually love mares but this one is very difficult. On the other hand she might just have the ego to jump really big.

[kmwines01]

To louisem: Manneken certainly has an interesting style! But he looks like so much fun to ride around on!

[NancyM]

Wow thanks everyone for your great stories. I have come across a very talented seven year old with very limited hunter miles. I think she has the scope, im just not so sure about the mind. She seems to like to jump but she has been confused along the way somehow. She leaps in the air when she gets confused..and im not sure exactly what to do. She seems to have everything i love. An uphill canter, soft mouth, beautiful style. But im worried that the leaping through the air on the way down to a jump or after is something im not going to be able to deal with . Ive tried being agressive with her and ride her through it and ive tried being softer with her...sneaking up on jumps. Some days it better and she does it less if shes lunged first. I have a chance to buy this horse, but im on the fence..no pun intended. I want to try to make one as im not going to be able to go out and buy one made. Ive made many hunters and retrained jumpers, but never had a green jumper with this much talent,. Im wondering if i should pass and look for one thats more straight forward and kind. I usually love mares but this one is very difficult. On the other hand she might just have the ego to jump really big.

Well I don't know if you are looking for input here, but one thing I will remark on is that if there is a confidence problem, being "aggressive" is rarely the answer. If the talent is there and you have a good feeling about her, and she can't be expensive with this problem, why not take a chance and give it a try? Forget cantering to fences, trot ONLY to jumps if you ride her. Raise her confidence level, in herself, in you. Let her free jump, a LOT. Let her figure it out, what works, without any input from you. Then, when you ride her again, stay out of her way and let her make her own decisions. Horses will tend to go airbourne like this when you start to try to take over from them, interfere. So don't. If she feels that she can trust her own judgement, and can trust you too, her confidence will grow. Encourage that, and you may be looking at the horse you want to own. Good luck!

[horserider12]

grand prix horses

my friend is a grand prix rider. He has 3 doing the lower grand prixs right now. He broke and started all three, went through the young jumpers with them (winning finals with two of them). so figure 3 years from 5 year old jumpers to lower grand prixs. I have one starting the 7 year olds this year that I hope to do a lower prix with in the next year or two who only did his first jumper course as a 5 year old and I have a 6 year old jumper this year with all the scope in the world, so we'll see in a few years where that leads us!

[PNWjumper]

I usually estimate 3-4 years from the first day I ride them to stepping into the first high AO class (1.40m). Depends on the horse, of course, but it seems that moving up to 1.50m isn't usually an issue and usually happens in the same year that I move up to 1.40m. But I haven't taken one up to the 1.60m.

That 3-4 year time frame seems to be more about me than the horse, though. That's the time it took me for my last four that jumped around the 1.50m (with the exception of my mare who maxed out at 1.40m); a greenbroke QH who was just starting to jump when I got him (3 years), a youngster that I bought as an unbroke 2yo (4 years), a mare I picked up as a short stirrup hunter (3 years), and my OTTB who I picked up at the track (3 years).

FWIW, my OTTB was one who wanted to go straight up in the air when I first started jumping him. He was great other than that (well, that and a pretty big crookedness issue), but it took the 1.40m fences and lots of work galloping jumps to finally get him to start really jumping across the jumps. It wouldn't be an issue that would scare me away from an otherwise suitable horse.

Oops...ETA: I reread your post and see you mean that she leaps in the air during the approach and after. Don't have any advice there. All I can say is that if she's a horse that likes jumping around the jumpers the issue might go away on it's own. My mare was a PILL about entering the ring for a while (long backstory on that, but she would often go up rather than in) and after about a year in the jumper ring it was like she suddenly went, "oh! I like this!" and never hesitated for even a second again. I've always laughed at what a "mare" thing that was to do But in all seriousness (and with more mares than just my AO girl) I've found that if a mare is good at and interested in what she's doing you'll sort out issues like that almost automatically. As for what to do? Again, it depends on the horse, but my approach is usually ignoring behavior like that IF it seems like she's doing it to "get your goat."

[faraway46]

About 2 to 4 years depending the maturity, talent, willingness and rideabillity.

I had Over The Top from scratch: bought as a cattle horse at 5 or 6, no breeding at all, he went from 0 to Grand Prix in three years.
Easy Money was a spoiled 1m mare, getting away with murder because no one ever put a stop to it. Went from 1m with no flat work knowledge to 1.40 in about 2 years.
Media Blanca was a 1m, small, sensitive TB mare with a loose front end. They bought he for my sister who later got bored of riding (is that possible????). I started riding her and she took me through the ranks (I was 14 at the time) up to GP, making a Pan Am team as a highlight. This one took about 3-4 years and I can't recall how old she was at the time (I barely recall how old I was... ).
Tamarindo was also bought as a newbie, about 1m shows at age 4. At 8 was jumping low GPs.
Tomasa was a rough 1m mare (the one I describe at the bottom) with a tough temper and no flatwork. 1st year did 1.20, 2nd year 1.30 and 3rd year settled in 1.30 and started 1.40. I bought her as a 6 yo.

I'm not sure by what you mean is that when your mare sees a jump she starts to speed to it and when you try to hold she starts popping up and down? If so, I still have a mare that was like that in the beginning and it wore away with time, practice and more confidence. Remember though, that all vices tend to come afloat in times of stress, because they are evasion techniques. She kept a little of it, almost as a very rocking canter during courses but when she got into fighting mode it would be more noticeable. I wouldn't say I corrected it by galloping more to the jumps but by teaching her to relax her back as much as possible. She had good scope and one of the most courageous horses I have ridden, but was stiff and had an extremely unorthodox jump. You can deal with one of those defects on it's own but both of them together are an issue. Sometimes they are so quirky that they make you ride in an unorthodox way also, which later affects your riding and timing with other horses. Here's a vid of her where you can see that style and how it got a bit stronger after jump 5 when I start to make sharper turns and she starts to fire up a bit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyCZI...nHhb5Kj0QZ9bv9

This mare could have gone farther than 1.40, where I decided to leave her at, but her lack of agility (talent) and rideabilty made me stop. Those traits made her less competitive. You knew you would always finish the course but you couldn't speed and usually hit a rail or two. Also, I wanted to perfect my riding and with her traits I would have to continue adapting to quirkiness, affecting when I rode other horses (it's hard to turn off the switch).
With this, I am not saying you should not go on. Heck, I can mention a almost half dozen hot, tricky horses out of the top of my head right now that were international legends: Jappeloupe, Hickstead, Jet Run, Apollo and Shutterfly.

Basically, I think that the most important thing is that you trust your instincts and your horse. You have to build a rock solid confidence between each other that will make your horse give more than he would with anyone else, even better riders, just because you are the one asking him (and that takes time and persistence). Also, mental maturity is essential and most peak after they are seven. Before that, they are usually not confident or ready to conquer big jumps, even though their build looks solid enough to. They are like overgrown teenagers discovering what they are capable of but not totally sure of themselves yet.

In this sport, you can do all the calculus you want but, bottom end, you have to place your bet and hope that your number is called. There are many, many cinderella stories in show jumping and I don't see why you can't be one of them!
Good luck!

[findeight]

OP, I understand you are thinking about buying that mare? Don't already own her? And specifically want to go GP?

OK, have you done level 5+ in the show arena and dabbled higher? Only reason I ask is it might be best to have somebody with extensive GP knowledge and experience evaluate this one's propects for you. I've seen a few that like to screw around betwewen jumps with no problems at all. Also seen some that create all sorts of problems for themselves and scare the crap out of their rider and everybody watching.

I am a Hunter puke, never jumped anything higher then 4' and that wasn't on purpose So I have no idea what to tell you about should/should not do here. Depends on you and your tolerance for that kind of thing if it does not school out.

Also depends on if you are willing to do something else with her if she does not prove herself on the big sticks.

Have somebody else look at her before you bite. I think the general consensus is about 2 or 3 years since she is already started-if you are lucky.

[Hauwse]

Wow thanks everyone for your great stories. I have come across a very talented seven year old with very limited hunter miles. I think she has the scope, im just not so sure about the mind. She seems to like to jump but she has been confused along the way somehow. She leaps in the air when she gets confused..and im not sure exactly what to do. She seems to have everything i love. An uphill canter, soft mouth, beautiful style. But im worried that the leaping through the air on the way down to a jump or after is something im not going to be able to deal with . Ive tried being agressive with her and ride her through it and ive tried being softer with her...sneaking up on jumps. Some days it better and she does it less if shes lunged first. I have a chance to buy this horse, but im on the fence..no pun intended. I want to try to make one as im not going to be able to go out and buy one made. Ive made many hunters and retrained jumpers, but never had a green jumper with this much talent,. Im wondering if i should pass and look for one thats more straight forward and kind. I usually love mares but this one is very difficult. On the other hand she might just have the ego to jump really big.

This is the million dollar question. It would certainly be worth getting some help evaluating the horse.

I have seen people waste a lot of time with horses that appear to be extremely talented, and have seen some people messed up pretty badly working with horses that seem to have all the talent in the world.

[SMRaven]

Wow thanks everyone for your great stories. I have come across a very talented seven year old with very limited hunter miles. I think she has the scope, im just not so sure about the mind. She seems to like to jump but she has been confused along the way somehow. She leaps in the air when she gets confused..and im not sure exactly what to do. She seems to have everything i love. An uphill canter, soft mouth, beautiful style. But im worried that the leaping through the air on the way down to a jump or after is something im not going to be able to deal with . Ive tried being agressive with her and ride her through it and ive tried being softer with her...sneaking up on jumps. Some days it better and she does it less if shes lunged first. I have a chance to buy this horse, but im on the fence..no pun intended. I want to try to make one as im not going to be able to go out and buy one made. Ive made many hunters and retrained jumpers, but never had a green jumper with this much talent,. Im wondering if i should pass and look for one thats more straight forward and kind. I usually love mares but this one is very difficult. On the other hand she might just have the ego to jump really big.

My two cents - take a chance on her. This sounds EXACTLY like my mare, and I was taking just the same risk as you when I bought her. She's turned out to be fantastic, super scopey, and I could never ask for a better horse! turns out the jumper ring and some bigger jumps were just what she needed to be happy in life. I say that you should take the risk and buy her. Especially if the price is right - at the very least you could get her some miles and resell her down the road.

[faraway46]

One more thing...

When you evaluate you also have to take into consideration who was riding her previously.
If Nick Skelton has been on her for a year and she's still hopping like a goat, I would steer clear since you know talent has taken a shot at her and she has not changed. On a different angle, if she was ridden by a very inexperienced rider which made her life miserable and you have more horsemanship than said rider, then you know that you have a big chance of improving her. Now, if you have been leasing her for a year and have not been able to figure her out, have seen little to no improvement, then also steer clear: sometimes it's not only a matter of talent, as I said before, but also willingness to cooperate that some horses don't have (or maybe you two are just not compatible).
Find an experienced rider, trainer, etc that you respect and have him/her evaluate your mare, even ride her if they can. Take in consideration her history before you and with you now, then make a decision.
Bottom line, it's up to you and what you feel or believe in.

Good luck.

[justridin']

the supply is tight, to the temptation is great...

Nice thread! I find the temptation of talent to be irresistable- and I usually make my money back, but supporting myself, or getting from pre- green to the big rings? always a leap of faith.

I've always tried to be systematic about what I ask the horse, beyond a couple of "wild ass rides" in the beginning to test the horse's (and my ) heart!!!

Then, if they are answering the questions reasonably, it's more a question of actually conditioning the s*&^ out of them. If they will take the pressure on the flat, they will usually take it over the jumps.

And that's not to say all will do advanced dressage, but some sorts of simulations of what we're going to see in the ring- gallops, rollbacks (i like to do them into the rail with the young ones), bending either way and leg yielding either way. The biggest thing I look for is a horse that will soften to the aids, even as the pressure increases. to me, that means they understand and want to work with you.

I've had lots that had a piece missing, but that willingness to come together with me usually meant we could achieve some very solid rounds.

It's funny, because just like Kipling's saddest words (it might have been) I remember those I climbed on a schooled, that felt like I could have raise the jumps forever, and like I was on the third story looking down.

A good mare is your most loyal partner, but if they turn, they don't ever want to play at the same level. I think this one might work if you kept the expectations modest and the increases in pressure very methodical.

The last thought about bravery in mares; usually the most reliable ones didn't jump 3" higher than they had to. The extravagant ones often are the worriers...