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Children. Grrrr...

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  • #81
    Originally posted by Calvincrowe View Post
    I don't think this is a riding discipline issue, it is a KID issue and more importantly, a parent issue.

    Look, I spend thousands of dollars every year to ride my quite expensive horse. I'd like to maximize every ride, not manage some dimwit kid.
    Originally posted by CHSatwork View Post
    And we all wonder why kids aren't getting into riding anymore. Could it be the crotchety old biddies whining about them? I'm sure it is.
    I agree, CC, except for the "expensive" part. I teach also, which means that I can't ride during the day when all the gainfully unemployed people ride. Yet I pay the same for the privilege. Furthermore, the riding facility where I board is on land owned by the city and it is not fenced. "Tourists" of all varieties stroll through with their kids and grandparents, petting and feeding the horses. One guy even stood next to the corral of a lovely Friesian, shouting into his beeping walkie-talkie phone for 20 minutes of my half hour lesson until I got fed up and asked him to leave. It's open space, so you can't control for that.

    Add to that the sheer numbers of non-horse-savvy extended family members and friends that tag along for the lessons, and it gets to be too much sometimes.

    And CHS, your name-calling is really rude and unnecessary. Goody for you that the BO brings all the kids. The boss gets to bring his dog to the office and leave whenever he wants. I'm fine with that. But boarders are customers. We pay for the use of the facility. While I haven't heard tell of anyone here going around bitching at the little kids, I am paying for the use of that space. Little Cody and Travis who come along with Brittny for their weekly lesson are not, and I can crab about that on a BB if I want to. I am not discouraging kids from riding by ranting on COTH.
    2012 goal: learn to ride like a Barn Rat

    A helmet saved my life.

    Comment


    • #82
      Hmmmm I'm starting to think this is an "English" rider problem. I've been doing this 40 years. Yes I enjoy riding english and jumping. I just can't tolerate the "English" barn environment. I have yet to see kids like those described at "western" barns. I wonder
      Funny, I've never had an issue with "English barns" but I do think there are "safety conscious" barns and ones that aren't.

      Of course not. It's the poor person minding her own business when that child runs in front of her horse or car and gets hurt that is sued. No one can sue the negligent a-hole parents.
      This.

      I remember a few years ago a horse kicking a toddler at a show in Nebraska.

      It struck me at the time that one of the very first things the family said was:

      I am London's Aunt and what all of you don't know about the story is that they where moving all of the people through where they had all of the horses waitiing. And yes our family is very fimilar with being around horses. And if you look up the equine law it only protects the people who are working with the horses or people who are in unauthorized areas not spectators. so all of you who think we can't go after the owner of the horse you are sadly mistakin. It states in the law that the owners must have complete control over the horses in the plubic sector. So to say the least feel for the 2 year old not the owner of the freking horse.
      "My daughter just happened to be toward the back end of the horse and he decided to kick," Drewes said.
      Of course, they were in an area of the show where they didn't belong. According to the horse council:

      A mule colt that kicked a toddler during the Nebraska Horse Expo was in an area “not intended for public display,” according to the Nebraska Horse Council and the Nebraska Horse Expo.

      "Concrete barriers, signs and event volunteers were in place to separate vehicle, pedestrian and animal traffic, according to the release.

      “Without the permission or knowledge of the owner, the mule colt was approached from behind by the child,” the release said.
      http://journalstar.com/news/local/ar...d5cbf4a96.html

      Thus, I would argue that it's just so not as simple as this belief that kids have been around horses FOREVER and NOTHING BAD EVER HAPPENS.

      Because bad things DO happen. See above. And it puts our sport and the livelihoods of equine professionals at risk.

      I would consider a place where children are riding their bikes in the aisle to be asking for an accident. Horses are governed by instinct and it isn't always sweet or kind.

      FWIW, not a lot of folks on this thread are saying that kids should never be around horses. There is a difference between a supervised child being around horses and an unsupervised one.

      Also? The Nebraska Horse Expo has plenty of people riding western.
      ---
      They're small hearts.

      Comment


      • #83
        Originally posted by TheHorseProblem View Post
        I agree, CC, except for the "expensive" part. I teach also, which means that I can't ride during the day when all the gainfully unemployed people ride. Yet I pay the same for the privilege. Furthermore, the riding facility where I board is on land owned by the city and it is not fenced. "Tourists" of all varieties stroll through with their kids and grandparents, petting and feeding the horses. One guy even stood next to the corral of a lovely Friesian, shouting into his beeping walkie-talkie phone for 20 minutes of my half hour lesson until I got fed up and asked him to leave. It's open space, so you can't control for that.

        Add to that the sheer numbers of non-horse-savvy extended family members and friends that tag along for the lessons, and it gets to be too much sometimes.

        And CHS, your name-calling is really rude and unnecessary. Goody for you that the BO brings all the kids. The boss gets to bring his dog to the office and leave whenever he wants. I'm fine with that. But boarders are customers. We pay for the use of the facility. While I haven't heard tell of anyone here going around bitching at the little kids, I am paying for the use of that space. Little Cody and Travis who come along with Brittny for their weekly lesson are not, and I can crab about that on a BB if I want to. I am not discouraging kids from riding by ranting on COTH.
        I don't recall calling anyone any names. If you don't like kids/noise/whatever build your own barn. I have my own barn 50ft from my house. It's empy. If I wanted my horses to never be exposed to noise/kids/toys/dogs I have that option. You can have it too. There are also adult only barns (yeah gossip and complaining is so much more fun than kids having a good time). Then you are the ones complaining when you go to shows that someone spooked poor dobbin and ruined the class for YOU!!!! Not fair. It's all THEIR fault. MMM HHH MMM

        Comment


        • #84
          Hyperbole much?
          ---
          They're small hearts.

          Comment


          • #85
            My oldest grew up around the barn but that didn't mean that he wasn't in the manure pile a little too much. I did make sure to never have him around when there were people riding - I could go in mid morning (not a training barn) and he could play in the stands (or manure pile) and I could ride. That was a long time ago and I think people expected children to be around maybe more than we do now. Luckily for both of us we and the barn survived. I didn't do that with the other two though they did spend a lot of time in hockey rinks and jail courtrooms while I worked. They both think that when you go to court, it's a place for donuts. LOL
            kenyagirl

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #86
              Originally posted by CHSatwork View Post
              Seriously you people are taking all the fun out of everything. I wouldn't want to be in your barns if they were free. Kids are kids. Life is too short to whine about everything. My barn at my house is empty. It's too quiet, no fun. I much prefer the cutting barn.

              Trust me, we are all quite happy for you to stay there.

              I don't know that you can really compare the types and temperaments of horses that you will find at a cutting barn versus a hunter/jumper barn. And I could make plenty more generalizations about your current facility, like you have made about our discipline, but I won't... Because it would be rude and unproductive.

              I am not looking for a completely sterile riding environment. Just a little common sense and common courtesy... Which aren't too common anymore.

              Comment


              • #87
                You might want to tell my TB's that they aren't supposed to be as quiet as the cutting horses. That's my point. If your horses were exposed to the same things they would be as quiet as those cutting horses. Then we wouldn't all have to tip toe around horse shows so you don't get bucked off.

                Comment


                • #88
                  You know, as an English rider, the only time I have ever asked a child to settle down at a horse show was when they were running back and forth screaming and throwing umbrellas.

                  I do not expect a sterile environment, but I do ask for a safe one. Part of a safe environment is respecting the fact that these are thousand plus pound animals with a flight instinct and therefore acting accordingly.

                  It's not the same as suggesting as anyone "tiptoe" anywhere or saying that "someone spooked poor dobbin and ruined the class for YOU!!!! Not fair. It's all THEIR fault. MMM HHH MMM".

                  Frankly, most of the English riders I know are more gracious than that, and are more gracious than you have been on this thread.

                  But I don't think any of us are going to say that it's okay to disregard safety and general acceptable behavior for a public place.
                  ---
                  They're small hearts.

                  Comment


                  • #89
                    People this isn't really hard at all. If you don't like kids get your own barn. Make your own rules. Easy peasy. When in public deal with it. A kid has just as much right to toss an umbrella as you do to come here and complain about it. Kids do not have to live up to YOUR expectations unless they are YOUR children. If you can't deal stay home. You are adults be prepared. Train your horses. Shows are so much more fun when your horse isn't freaking out at stupid things.
                    Oh and guess what? I'm not really a big fan of kids myself. I just know they are out there and it's easier to train my horses than be unprepared.

                    Comment


                    • #90
                      Originally posted by CHSatwork View Post
                      People this isn't really hard at all. If you don't like kids get your own barn.

                      Oh and guess what? I'm not really a big fan of kids myself. I just know they are out there and it's easier to train my horses than be unprepared.
                      I am shocked, shocked! You seem like such a people person.

                      And seriously, I don't know why I didn't think of that. It is so easy to build your own barn, even in a large metropolitan area.
                      2012 goal: learn to ride like a Barn Rat

                      A helmet saved my life.

                      Comment


                      • #91
                        I smell ... TRouble On a roLL

                        Comment


                        • #92
                          Originally posted by catosis View Post
                          There is a distinct difference between a group of yelling, screaming children jumping up and down on bleachers and your average show spectator.
                          On that day, the kiddies may have been the average show spectator, statistically speaking.

                          Just so you guys can get further wadded:

                          I used to take lessons from a gal down the road in her outdoor arena. The deaf dalmation would sometimes cut through. Her kid (a good farm hand, no older than 4) used to play out there, sitting down with his trucks and whatnot.

                          Swear to God. I'm jumping a course at momma's discretion and the kid is playing inside the ring/sandbox.

                          Her barn, her F1 generation, her rules.
                          The armchair saddler
                          Politically Pro-Cat

                          Comment


                          • #93
                            You do realize it isn't only about training, right?

                            There are plenty of accidents that happen with horses that have absolutely nothing to do with how bombproof an animal is. And you are never going to train 100% of the flight instinct out of every horse - same as you're not going to train away 100% of the the instinct for them to kick at a fly.

                            Bottom line is that if a kid gets hurt at a horse show or even at a private barn, in this world, it has the ability to affect more than just the child - also the barn owner, the horse owner, the venue, a show association, even a trainer. This in turn affects all of us.

                            I'm sure it's great to live in a world where nothing bad ever happens (and there's no such thing as a lawsuit), but that just isn't reality. There is nothing wrong with taking reasonable precautions.

                            This, again, is not the same as insisting on a completely silent and sterile environment.
                            ---
                            They're small hearts.

                            Comment


                            • #94
                              All the talk about kiddie lawsuits.

                              Remind me about this: Is the value of a kid estimated to be more or less than the older, bread-winning guy? ("Baby Einstein could have been a Nobel Laureate-- so pay up" or "No one knows who could have been a Nobel Laureate, but do pay up for the guy who brought home 7 figures last year")

                              How does one calculate the monetary value of a killed, dented or stupid-ed child?
                              The armchair saddler
                              Politically Pro-Cat

                              Comment


                              • #95
                                Any actual instances of the horse owner being sued

                                At a show or anywhere else, because a horse has injured a child. Not just sued, where the negligent parent let little pookie run into the show ring or walk into a stall and got his little head caved in. Anyone?

                                I'm not talking about a lesson program where a rider gets hurt. I'm speaking only about an actual instance of someone at a show or a barn, who is a competitor or boarder, who gets sued and loses to a parent of an injured or killed child.

                                Go ahead, no "I heard of one time." Just the facts people.

                                Comment


                                • #96
                                  Originally posted by spacytracy View Post
                                  What is WRONG with parents these days?!?!?! Your child is not entitled to EVERYTHING, EVERYWHERE in life!
                                  Ding, ding, ding we have a winner. It's not the kids. They are easily trained. If someone takes the time to train them.
                                  "Those who know the least often know it the loudest."

                                  Comment


                                  • #97
                                    MVP- I have no issue with the situation you are describing. My issue is with the clueless and those lacking in self awareness. They are dangerous to themselves and those of us riding around them. My horse can be spooky, I accept that and am quite aware of my surroundings, to avoid problems.

                                    At our barn, the workers often bring their 4 kids to work (after school/weekends)-3 boys ages 6-12, and a year old girl. Noisy? not often because mom/dad make sure they play away from the horses, walk in the barn aisle, and don't run past the open indoor doors. Common sense! Do they have fun? Sure-the hay shed is a great fort, there is a tree swing in a pasture, etc. The horses can see them, and don't care. They are great kids and we enjoy them being there. Dogs are on a leash, visitors are ask to not pop out of doors, around corners, etc. while we ride to avoid accidents.

                                    CSH--I'm glad you are happy in your seemingly chaotic world. I prefer to ride in a safe, calm place. And, yeah, I have my own barn, too. When kids come, I establish the rules quickly--with them, and parents.
                                    Proud member of the "Don't rush to kill wildlife" clique!

                                    Comment


                                    • #98
                                      I have to agree, it is the parents or grandparents responsibility to keep the kiddies in check (whomever is watching them) FOR EXAMPLE: This past weekend, a lovely grandmother asked me if she could bring her grand daughter in my trailer to pet my horse. (I have a 2+1 and use the +1 as a grooming stall) I politely told that it wasn't the greatest idea since she is green and it is a cold windy day. Another mother tells her child to go "pet the pony" and proceeds to walk up the side ramp on my trailer and stand RIGHT IN FRONT my mare. (we're talking on my trailer here) child is not paying attention to where her my mare's head is (she's looking at her mommy) and my mare, totally by accident, whips her head around to look at something in the distance and TOTALLY knocks little child off the ramp and onto the gravel driveway. Child screams/cries, my mare freaks out at the shrieking flapping thing on the ground and nearly breaks the trailer tie. Mother proceeds to yell at me...When people ask my why I hate children, I usually say it is because I can't stand that parents don't discipline/watch their children.

                                      Horses are dangerous. Period. Steady Eddy could have a day, a fly, anything could happen. At a farm I stayed at a long time ago, an autistic child was petting a horse, not paying attention (neither was the horse's owner) and the child got kicked as the horse went to swat a fly. I'm all for the future of the horse world, but sometimes kids need to be supervised more closely than they are. And they also need to be taught how to behave and when to not go near a horse. Not all horses are the cute tolerant ones of petting zoos, and I think that is what so many people forget! Rant over.. Thank you for listening

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        #99
                                        Originally posted by CHSatwork View Post
                                        A kid has just as much right to toss an umbrella as you do to come here and complain about it. Kids do not have to live up to YOUR expectations unless they are YOUR children.
                                        I'm sorry, but this is completely asinine. I'm just wondering where you draw the line at unacceptable, since children endangering themselves and the lives of others doesn't make the cut.

                                        Comment

                                        • Original Poster

                                          Originally posted by 2ndyrgal View Post
                                          At a show or anywhere else, because a horse has injured a child. Not just sued, where the negligent parent let little pookie run into the show ring or walk into a stall and got his little head caved in. Anyone?

                                          I'm not talking about a lesson program where a rider gets hurt. I'm speaking only about an actual instance of someone at a show or a barn, who is a competitor or boarder, who gets sued and loses to a parent of an injured or killed child.

                                          Go ahead, no "I heard of one time." Just the facts people.
                                          I know of one. It happened at Equest Farm in New Orleans. A camp kid got kicked in the head by someone's show horse. The child suffered a traumatic brain injury and is permanently disabled. The parents sued the horse's owner and were awarded millions of dollars. I believe the horse owners last name is Antonini. I am an attorney and happened to find the case when I was doing research on something else.

                                          Comment

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