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Have you ever had a trainer...

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  • Have you ever had a trainer...

    ride a 5 stride in a 6 stride line in the pregreens at a AA show,not once but in the warm up trip and first hunter round?
    Then tell you she just wanted him to go forward?
    I said "really leave out a stride" hummm...
    I've never had a trainer once say to me go ahead in your trip and leave out a stride...
    http://community.webshots.com/user/summitspringsfarm

  • #2
    From your description it sounds like they did it in the first two classes. After this horse had enough go button and they did the 6 for the rest of the division?

    Maybe there really was an issue with the 'go button' that they wanted to address, and then when they got the answer they wanted they did the normal strides.

    Was the horse better or worse from the start of the day to the end? That is really what counts.
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    • #3
      Last time I checked...

      You didn't get to pick how many strides to do in the lines. In my experience, it has always been kind of a set thing.

      Maybe I should be a trainer, then I can pick how many strides I want to do...
      ALP
      "The Prince" aka Front Row
      Cavalier Manor

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      • #4
        I would prefer the "installing" to happen before entering the ring...

        Comment


        • #5
          I think it depends how the rest of the trip was going. If the horse missed a change or there was some other reason that this wasn't likely a ribbon-worthy round, I'm okay with making it another schooling session or learning experience for the horse. I gotta say though, when my horse was on his way to a top round and the pro rider added a stride because he "wasn't listening," I was pretty ticked. So I get where you are coming from. It's your nickel.
          Tucker the Wunderkind

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          • #6
            Was the goal of the horse show the pregreen classes or a later division, such as the adults? I.e. was the pregreen a warmup division, or were you chasing points in it and could have won it with the proper number of strides. If the pregreen division was used for a pro to warm the horse up for later divisions, was the horse then better in the later divisions? Was adding up down the first line perhaps a problem that the ammy riding the horse later might have?

            If dropping a stride was planned for and ridden for and for an actual purpose (i.e. leaving one out in a jumper course) and the course allowed it (i.e. the line was set soft) and the trainer made a decision to run his little legs off to make a point, it's maybe not the end of the world.

            But your OP doesn't give me nearly enough information to determine if this was the case, or if a mistake in riding or judgement was made. It's hard to get a horse show atmosphere if you aren't at a horse so, so unfortunately, sometimes some schooling has to take place in the show ring -- hence warmup classes and pros taking horses around so they are better for their owners later.

            (Also, I apparently REALLY like doing the i.e. thing...)

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            • #7
              Ummm, no.

              I could maybe see leaving one out on a 4-stride line, particularly on a big-strided, wide-eyed greenie, but a 6-stride? If you can't fix something down a line in 6 strides, you need to go home and work on yourself. Even I can manage that.

              Or maybe said trainer needs a calculator?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Go Fish View Post
                Ummm, no.

                I could maybe see leaving one out on a 4-stride line, particularly on a big-strided, wide-eyed greenie, but a 6-stride? If you can't fix something down a line in 6 strides, you need to go home and work on yourself. Even I can manage that.

                Or maybe said trainer needs a calculator?
                Why would it be easier to leave one out in a shorter line? It should be the opposite. To take it to the extremes, think how hard it would be to do a one in a two.

                By the numbers: two stride set at 36'. To do in one stride, horse needs a stride of about 24', minus a bit if you get them to jump in and out big. In a six stride line set at 84', your horse only needs a 14.4' stride to get down it in five. Again, minus a bit if you get in and out with a bit more than the traditional 6' take off and landing.

                Doing a 5 in a 6 is a heck of a lot easier than doing a 3 in a 4...

                Comment


                • #9
                  It depends. Trainer and Owner need to have a discussion about the purpose of the show before it all starts. If the purpose is year-end points, qualifying, etc. I would expect the trainer to finesse the round to the best of their ability - which means doing the numbers.

                  If the trip is already blown, the horse is out there for training purposes, the horse is being prepped for the ammy owner, or any number of other options, then I expect training to take precedence over ribbons - and yes, that may mean teaching a horse that his go button has to work in the show ring.

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                  • #10
                    [edit]
                    Last edited by Moderator 3; Nov. 23, 2011, 09:47 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Summit Springs Farm View Post

                      1) ride a 5 stride in a 6 stride line in the pregreens at a AA show,not once but in the warm up trip and first hunter round?

                      2)Then tell you she just wanted him to go forward?


                      I said "really leave out a stride" hummm...
                      I've never had a trainer once say to me go ahead in your trip and leave out a stride...

                      1) No.

                      2) No.

                      Got repremanded for riding a 5 in a 6 in a lesson recently while riding my small strided horse - my response was - "well at least we know he can do it" It wasn't pretty however!

                      And wouldn't it be better to get your pace in the corners not in the middle of a line??
                      Last edited by doublesstable; Nov. 21, 2011, 02:02 PM.
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                      • #12
                        Wait...I am a little confused. Line is a 6 stride. Trainer rode the line in 5 strides in BOTH classes ON PURPOSE?

                        How much forward did they want? And how did the other lines ride after leaving a stride out? Where was this line in the course--start, middle, end?

                        But to answer your question--no, I have never had a trainer tell me they purposefully left a stride out in a hunter line. And I have never had a trainer advise me to do that either.
                        "I'm not crazy...my mother had me tested"

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                        • #13
                          Sounds dangerous, especially for a pre-green horse.
                          "Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can?" Sun Tzu, The Art of War
                          Rainy
                          Stash

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by AmmyByNature View Post
                            Why would it be easier to leave one out in a shorter line? It should be the opposite. To take it to the extremes, think how hard it would be to do a one in a two.

                            By the numbers: two stride set at 36'. To do in one stride, horse needs a stride of about 24', minus a bit if you get them to jump in and out big. In a six stride line set at 84', your horse only needs a 14.4' stride to get down it in five. Again, minus a bit if you get in and out with a bit more than the traditional 6' take off and landing.

                            Doing a 5 in a 6 is a heck of a lot easier than doing a 3 in a 4...
                            You have a lot more time to make adjustments in a 6-stride. I'm not talking bounces or one-strides.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              If you have to ask here, then I think you have your answer.

                              Were they back to back rounds?

                              If forward was the issue, then wouldn't getting the 6 not a 7 have been the objective?? If you're almost adding, don't see why you would purposefully try to leave one out in the ring at an AA show...

                              Seems to me someone's trying to cover up a slightly too fresh horse.
                              Proud Member of the "Tidy Rabbit Tinfoil Hat Wearers" clique and the "I'm in my 30's and Hope to be a Good Rider Someday" clique

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I campaigned a couple of Pre Greens including AA shows. I never had my trainer/pro rider say they left strides out on purpose to teach the horse to go.

                                Actually they managed to get the horse going (or slowed down) in the proper number of strides in a AA show ring so it never really came up for discussion.

                                Schooling? Yeah. Clinic excercises to teach adjustability? Sure. At home? Of course.

                                AA show ring??? Never.

                                Thats a really, really expensive way (for the owner) to go about it. 3' may not be huge but that oxer in a AA Pre Green ring is big enough to catch a leg and flip off a long and weak spot after a leave out.

                                I know there is more to this then was shared but, really, none of the trainers and clinicians I ever worked with used leaving out a stride at anything over a speed bump to teach Green horses to go forward. Anywhere.
                                When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                                The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Go Fish View Post
                                  You have a lot more time to make adjustments in a 6-stride. I'm not talking bounces or one-strides.
                                  But the case here isn't about making an adjustment, it's about purposely and intentionally leaving a stride out with forethought.

                                  I'm just playing devils advocate here, really. I can see how a trainer might make that decision. Do I necessarily agree with it? No. Would I like to see it done on my horse? No.

                                  But I do acknowledge that riding a line with the intent to leave out a stride is far different from accidentally leaving out a stride which is, I agree, really very dangerous. To intentionally leave out a stride in a 6 stride I have to lengthen my horse's step by a little more than 2'. Not impossible, if that's how I'm riding it, especially in a line that long.

                                  My trainer has never done this, although she has intentionally gotten my horse deep to the out oxer.

                                  I'm just saying that we don't necessarily have all the information here necessary to judge the trainer.

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #18
                                    Ok, here's more info.

                                    1) horse is in his second year pregreen fences are 3'3", ie very well schooled.

                                    2) horse was shown by trainer all 2010 11 shows never an issue.

                                    3) no it was not previously discussed or even a good idea IMHO.
                                    had it been brought up to me I would have said absolutely no reason to leave out a stride on one line at Zone finals in front of all of your peers. In the warm up class and the first hunter class.
                                    We can address any new issues outside the ring and scratch the classses. That is a well know fact with me, if things are not going well, we scratch and regroup as neccessary.

                                    4) net effect horse was very nervous the next day in the lines.
                                    Last edited by Summit Springs Farm; Nov. 22, 2011, 10:38 AM.
                                    http://community.webshots.com/user/summitspringsfarm

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      How cavalier of former trainer to decide to wa$te your money without any consult. Despite the fact it sounds like this horse has been a good one in the show ring for over a year and has no huge issues that require publically riding the crap out of him down the lines to a leave out.

                                      Buh bye
                                      When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                                      The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Hunter lines are already set to be a good distance, as they want to show case a ground covering canter so I can't ever imagine leaving out a stride in a hunter line. Maybe if it was an 8 stride bending line and you happened to be going too direct or had a big jump in but in a 6 stride no and FOR SURE not a 4 stride line like someone else suggested. Talk about a suicide ride!

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