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Jumping in Draw Reins?

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  • Jumping in Draw Reins?

    I was looking at a website that had horses for sale and in the pictures they were jumping the horses in Draw Reins

    There were also flat pictures where they also had draw reins on.

    I don't know about you but I was disturbed and completely disagree with this practice/training, let alone putting these pictures up as sale pictures and marketing the horse as a jumper and for $30k

    Anyone run across this before?

  • #2
    I would never jump a horse in draw reins.
    See here. That just makes me shudder. Awful. and yes, it was at a show.

    If you're trying to sell a horse you might want to advertise that the horse can actually go in a nice looking frame w/o being forcibly tied into it w/ draw reins. That's ridiculous.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by supaflyskye View Post
      I would never jump a horse in draw reins.
      See here.
      I like Picture 5 - maybe that is the punishment the rider gets for using the draw reins.

      I have always been told not to jump in draw reins, a chambon, a de Gogue, etc. etc. A martingale was about it - NO contraptions.
      ALP
      "The Prince" aka Front Row
      Cavalier Manor

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      • #4
        Originally posted by supaflyskye View Post
        I would never jump a horse in draw reins.
        See here. That just makes me shudder. Awful. and yes, it was at a show.

        If you're trying to sell a horse you might want to advertise that the horse can actually go in a nice looking frame w/o being forcibly tied into it w/ draw reins. That's ridiculous.
        Ok, the scarier part of that link is if you click on the next photo (guess you see what happens as a result)
        Life is hard. Buy a freaking helmet.
        Originally posted by meupatdoes
        Whatever, go gallop.

        Comment


        • #5
          Perhaps these three threads (out of the 8 pages that come up when you search for "jumping + draw + reins") will help. Those are just three threads with titles nearly identical to your own.

          http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...ing+draw+reins

          http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...ing+draw+reins

          http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...ing+draw+reins

          Draw reins don't ruin a horse, although a person using them badly certainly can. As can a person using pretty much ANYTHING badly.

          I personally agree with CBoylen's assessment. I have jumped horses in draw reins and have seen my horses jumped by my pro in draw reins. Attached to a breastplate or run through the neck strap of a martingale, due to personal preference.

          On a slightly different topic, why the hatred of draw reins when people all seem to love side reins? You know what I can do with draw reins? Loosen them in half a second. Adjust them depending on need. Not really the story with side reins. Why do draw reins get so vilified when everyone and their mother is telling people to longe in side reins?

          Comment


          • #6
            Never!

            A trainer, at a barn I previously rode at, was jumping in draw reins. The horse put his foot thru the reins when he landed, freaked, the trainer came off and was kicked in the face by the horse trying to get his legs free. Horrific accident.
            You're entitled to your own opinion, not your own facts!

            Comment


            • #7
              Gross - and not needed if you know how to use hard and leg.

              Comment


              • #8
                Yes, sadly I come across it far to often. It disgusts me that people these days seem to think that slapping some gadget on a horse is the answer to all problems, especially when most don't even have the knowledge of what purpose it serves or how to properly use whatever it is. The only thing worse is when they DO know, but don't care.

                To think of using such pictures for marketing is just beyond me.

                supafly, that pic has me cringing!

                ETA:
                Originally posted by AmmyByNature View Post
                On a slightly different topic, why the hatred of draw reins when people all seem to love side reins? You know what I can do with draw reins? Loosen them in half a second. Adjust them depending on need. Not really the story with side reins. Why do draw reins get so vilified when everyone and their mother is telling people to longe in side reins?
                Lungeing in side reins vs. jumping in draw reins are apples vs. oranges. If this thread were about 'Jumping in Side Reins' you can bet they'd be getting the same amount of "hatred", if not more than everyone's beloved draw reins. I would be included in that too, and I personally love side reins when used appropriately.

                Side reins are also a tool used without a rider, usually in the early training stages where a horse is learning to look for and take a steady, elastic contact. Often it's difficult for a rider to maintain a contact truly that consistent & steady, which a young or inexperienced horse most relies on. They're not supposed to be able to be loosened in a half a second, as an inconsistent contact can make a green horse worry. Then again, they're also not supposed to be cranked in either like so many people like to do, whereby the horse often freaks when it hits such a strong resistance and can't lift its head. In reality they're to not interfere with movement at all while the horse is walking, but should engage when the horse engages them at the trot or canter, as it reaches forward with its neck into the contact, & rounds its back into "frame". There's no need for loosening as there's nothing cranked tight.

                I would agree that it's pretty much like Sarcam02 said -- the hatred comes from seeing the overuse & misuse, thereby hurting horses. Again, I personally like side reins, but I also just about had kittens the day I saw a kid at our barn jumping her pony through a gymnastic in them. There's a time & a place for everything, jumping not being the place for either of these tools.
                Last edited by Losgelassenheit; Nov. 18, 2011, 05:26 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I rarely use any sort of aid, but if I do draw reins are pretty much the only thing I will use while riding (I have neck stretchers I like for lunging) for the exact reason AmmyByNature brought up. I had a horse rear and fall over once in side reins because it spooked, realized its head was down, freaked, and there was nothing I could do... With draw reins you can loosen nearly instantly!

                  However, I have never, and will never jump with them on.
                  Southern Cross Guest Ranch
                  An All Inclusive Guest Ranch Vacation - Georgia

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by AmmyByNature View Post
                    Perhaps these three threads (out of the 8 pages that come up when you search for "jumping + draw + reins") will help. Those are just three threads with titles nearly identical to your own.

                    http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...ing+draw+reins

                    http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...ing+draw+reins

                    http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...ing+draw+reins

                    Draw reins don't ruin a horse, although a person using them badly certainly can. As can a person using pretty much ANYTHING badly.

                    I personally agree with CBoylen's assessment. I have jumped horses in draw reins and have seen my horses jumped by my pro in draw reins. Attached to a breastplate or run through the neck strap of a martingale, due to personal preference.

                    On a slightly different topic, why the hatred of draw reins when people all seem to love side reins? You know what I can do with draw reins? Loosen them in half a second. Adjust them depending on need. Not really the story with side reins. Why do draw reins get so vilified when everyone and their mother is telling people to longe in side reins?
                    Hated comes from seeing too many people overuse them and knowingly or unknowingly hurt horses. Yes - true pros who have soft hands can use them (and side reins) with great care but alas that is not the case 99% of the time.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I initially only used draw reins in flat lessons with a competent instructor until I got the hang of them- now I use them for flat rides only. I have, however, seen some more experienced riders at my barn pop over a small x or vertical at the end of their ride with draw lines. Not something I'd advocate doing, but they seemed perfectly fine- and the jumps are about 18" of the ground.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I flat my mare in draw reins, and sometimes jump her in them. She has a tendency to get strung out and goes too long, and the draw reins help bring her back more softly then just a true rein would. I did a clinic on the weekend, and used them then. I would say 95% of the time, there was no contact on the draw.

                        As the clinician said "I would rather see someone correctly using a pair of draw reins, than someone seesawing on their horse's mouth"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          There are just a small percentage of people who are qualified IMHO to use draw reins while jumping. CBoylen is one of them. Pretty much everyone else should just forget about gadgets unless they're working with a really, really educated trainer.
                          ~Kryswyn~ Always look on the bright side of life, de doo, de doo de doo de doo
                          Check out my Kryswyn JRTs on Facebook

                          "Life is merrier with a terrier!"

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                          • #14
                            I agree with the OP that sales photos/videos of horses jumping in draw reins would really turn me off buying from that barn.

                            I posted a long time ago in the dressage forum about a horse being advertised for sale and had one draw rein on in the flat video. The seller told me that it was something "all the big trainers did" in a tone as if trying to make me feel stupid for not knowing.

                            I did not buy from her and will not in the future.
                            Freeing worms from cans everywhere!

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              Originally posted by CHT View Post
                              I agree with the OP that sales photos/videos of horses jumping in draw reins would really turn me off buying from that barn.

                              I posted a long time ago in the dressage forum about a horse being advertised for sale and had one draw rein on in the flat video. The seller told me that it was something "all the big trainers did" in a tone as if trying to make me feel stupid for not knowing.

                              I did not buy from her and will not in the future.
                              Exactly! I can't believe they would have sale pictures of jumping the horse in draw reins and market that horse as an experienced Jumper who will win ribbons. Not one picture didn't have draw reins. And they also advertised that the horse went in a french link snaffle. Ya it sure does with draw reins attached to it

                              supaflyskye that was just awful!! I can't believe that was at a show. That looks bad on her trainer imo.

                              I do believe that draw reins do have there place and time but not all the time and definately not to jump in. And never in inexperienced hands.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I have no problem with jumping in draw reins, as some of you pointed out . However, I feel sales pictures should be done in show tack. Really, the issue here is presentation, not training. Although I fail to see what the price has to do with it. That having been said, it wouldn't prevent me from going to look at the horse if I was otherwise interested. If you weeded out horses to look at by presentation alone you'd be left with very few horses to see.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Kryswyn View Post
                                  There are just a small percentage of people who are qualified IMHO to use draw reins while jumping. CBoylen is one of them. Pretty much everyone else should just forget about gadgets unless they're working with a really, really educated trainer.
                                  Wow, arent you something. I've seen draw reins used as a tool by top hunter instructors, top jumper clinicians, multiple successful jumper riders, Olympians, and students of those above. Someone should tell them to check with you to see if they make the list.

                                  I love it when people pick a picture and say theres your proof. I could pick out dozens of pictures without draw reins with similar problems. I could also find a picture of a horse jumping correctly in draw reins.

                                  Really people, get over yourselves. Draw reins are like any tool, they can be used correctly or incorrectly. I'd rather see a horse under the tutelage of a professional in draw reins, then being ridden badly by an amateur in the wrong bit and nasty hands. The point is, if you don't like them, don't use them.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    People are really stupid about advertising- use a photo that shows the horse at their best- not in a bunch of gadgets- don't give people reasons to say no...

                                    But the draw rein debate gets old. Some people use them well, some people use them carelessly. If they didn't have draw reins, they'd have another gadget, a bigger bit or a neck stretcher. Some people don't care to do dressage correctly, some are lazy, some are ignorant.

                                    I would not go look at a horse coming from a barn where ever horse was shown in draw reins- I'd assume an uneducated trainer. But if someone needs them as an aid on some horses on occasion, it isn't such a big deal.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Am I OK if I hate side reins as well?

                                      I've always felt that anyone with educated enough hands to use draw reins wouldn't need them...
                                      madeline
                                      * What you release is what you teach * Don't be distracted by unwanted behavior* Whoever waits the longest is the teacher. Van Hargis

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBI5S9PFW2g&


                                        This video, which is several years old, is a conglomeration of three schools on my horse that I did with him, which are the only schools in the entirety of his history that I ever used draw reins on him.

                                        I used them on the recommendation of and under the supervision of an excellent, highly qualified trainer. I do not think I am in some rarified elite rider category who is one of the only people in the world qualified to do x and such, but I also do not think I am doing my horse any kind of disservice during those rides. We used them to help him jump straight (not to pull his head down) in the beginning of the school, and then took them off at the end.

                                        Look at the video, evaluate us, and then realize that the horse was 4yo at the time, had roughly two and a half weeks of jump schooling under his belt, and these were probably his 7th, 8th and 9th schools he had ever had over fences in his life. Those jumps are pretty much all of the jumps he jumped in those three schools too, so the schools themselves were kept short and to the point.


                                        Again, I think he is doing just fine for a horse that is still in single digits for total lifetime jump schools and there is nothing remotely like the linked picture going on anywhere. There is no tension, rushing, stress, or control issues whatsoever.In fact he looks ten times more made than half the horses I see strompling around the local shows. But it is possible I do everything backasswards.

                                        It is years later now and nobody needs to wonder how the story ends: he turned out just fine and at his latest horse show carried one of my students to ribbons at a AA show with 30+ in the division. I don't think I ruined him.

                                        In case anyone is interested in statistics, in the intervening five years since that video was shot I have used draw reins on a total of two additional horses, for maybe five rides total between them. I ride, on average, about 12 horses per week which is over 3,000 rides since that video was shot. That number includes several horses that I retrained, remediated, fixed for their owners, got ready for resale coming out of the auction, or demoed as six figure sale horses for BNTs, whatever. So out of 3,000 rides, sitting on every type of horse under the sun, to use them for 8 rides in 5 years is not exactly a high level of dependence on gadgets.

                                        I use them very, very rarely but I am certainly not going to say "NEVER" because every once in a very rare while a horse comes along where a couple rides in the draws might be jut the thing to help him out. And personally, I think that's ok.
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