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Lease??s. Would this situation interest a serious HJ rider?

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  • Lease??s. Would this situation interest a serious HJ rider?

    Posting as an alter to get some thoughts on lease situation prior to talking to trainer and advertising. Want to see if this is something a serious rider would be interested in and what is fair to charge. I have two horses in a full training situation. And it is getting pricey, considering i no longer ride more than casually, One is kind of for sale, but wouldn't mind if he stayed, the other is not, so would be long term arrangement for the right person. Horse 1 is a fancy warmblood hunter, can and has won the hack, champion pre green hunter in her region, honest, scopey jumper, but does have an occasional serious spook, currently prepping for derbies.
    Horse two has only local miles but is an easy ride, schooling as a jumper, 3'6 courses and some 4' plus fences currently but super scopey and honest. Has dressage background, auto lead changes, and pretty enough jump to do double duty as eq horse or hunter.
    Both are sound, fit, ready to show and be competitive. Both are sweet in your pocket types who love attention.
    What I am considering is an in barn lease of both horses. Lessor could ride each horse 3-4 times a week, the other days they would have training rides. Showing with trainer or independently once the rider proves ability to do so.
    Would like to know if this is a situation that a rider would be interested in? What is a fair percentage of their costs to charge? Or reasonable monthly cost.

  • #2
    One main issue that I see is that you wouldn't be able to lease to amateurs other than to do the adults -- and both sound like they would be much more valuable as 3'6 horses. Of course, if you can find a junior that wouldn't be an issue!

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Ben and Me View Post
      One main issue that I see is that you wouldn't be able to lease to amateurs other than to do the adults -- and both sound like they would be much more valuable as 3'6 horses. Of course, if you can find a junior that wouldn't be an issue!
      Hey, I'm an ammy and I would get all over that! Adult Jumpers is 3'6'', and there are always the levels as well.

      Comment


      • #4
        I thought that there was a recent rule change regarding the ammy owner division so that an ammy could lease and still be able to show in the a/o division.
        flogarty
        "It is difficult not to be unjust to what one loves" Oscar Wilde

        Comment


        • #5
          pm sent..

          Comment


          • #6
            Yes, your situation would interest a "good ammy" like me.

            This is someone who can put a good flat school on a horse....

            Who knows that "they have only so many jumps in 'em" and doesn't need to jump each time....

            Who is willing to come to your barn, take lessons with your trainer, instruction from you and get into the team goal of improving these horses, no matter who owns em....

            Who knows how much the whole cotton pickin' thing costs (and how much it costed you to get these two nice horses to where they are).

            I think a free lease at your barn where your lessee pays her percentage of your total costs (including DVM maintenance, the shoeing you want and your full training board) is great. The number will get big, but the lessee might pay for her required 1X/week lesson and any shows she does.

            If you are willing to let the lessee show your horses, I think the number maybe large but he "good ammy" will realize that it's cheaper than the other usual option: The off-farm lease with a lease fee as well.

            Now finding the person who can do all this might be a trick. But start with your trainer who can rig up someone "in barn" or look among her contacts for a rider who is ready for this opportunity. It's a good one and will seem generous to the person who knows what it takes to produce such useful horses.
            The armchair saddler
            Politically Pro-Cat

            Comment


            • #7
              Where are you? I would have been interested, but just found another lease situation starting this month. If it doesn't work out, your situation sounds pretty good to me, too!

              Comment


              • #8
                I know of a number of ammies who have done or would do something like that. Many are good riders who had nice horses and want to continue to ride/show at that level, but are either in school or have busy/lower paying jobs that prevent them from owning a nice show horse at present.

                If the owner wants to have the horse continue in a program with the trainer, I have seen things worked out where the owner pays all expenses (board, vet, shoes, training rides, supplements, showing by the trainer, etc.) and the rider pays for lessons and shows (costs split where the owner shows or owner has the trainer show). Typically, the rider won't have quite as much time on the horse, though.

                Alternatively, I have seen deals where the lesee pays a percentage of certain costs (board, vet, shoes, supplements - or whatever you choose to negotiate) and 100% of their lesson and showing costs (again, costs split where the owner shows or owner has the trainer show), while the owner pays the other percentage of costs, plus the training rides.

                I think how much you ask the rider to contribute will depend on the situation and how much control you want to retain over your horses. If you want them to remain in your training program and limit their use of the horse, then you would expect less contribution. If you would be allowing them unlimited access to the horse, you could expect more contribution. For the right rider (one that helps you promote your "for sale" horse), you might also want to consider less of a contribution, if you can manage it.

                Depending on your target audience, you might want to work out a deal where they pay a flat rate each month (say 50% of annual base board, shoes, vet maintenance, supplements/12 months). For students or younger ammies starting out in the work force, it makes it a lot easier for them to budget if they know they are putting $X towarded Horsie's expenses each month (on top of lessons and showing).

                It sounds like a wonderful opportunity that many ammies would probably jump at the chance for -- even if it means they can't gallop around the A/O ring. I would if I was in your area and didn't have a horse of my own.
                Last edited by salymandar; Nov. 4, 2011, 11:38 AM. Reason: Thought a flat rate charge might be a good suggestion, depending on type of lease.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I have written many contracts for leases and what I typically see is:
                  -Lessee pays all board/training costs
                  -Lessee pays all insurance costs, farrier, etc and medical up to a certain limit
                  -Lessee pays for all lessee's show costs

                  The foregoing is commonly referred to as a care lease because Lessee doesn't pay an additional "lease" fee to the owner. For many leases, in addition to the above, the lessee pays $10,000 to $30,000 per year to the lessor.

                  I am currently looking for a horse to care lease.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I don't know about costs but I do know several very good ammy riders in NE who would love an option like this -- they don't have the money to do lease + all the care for fancy horse but could probably swing the care type of least -- I think you'd find that there is a fair amount of interest out there for what you are offering

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      Thanks for all your input. I am going to talk to the trainer about the possibilities. I think the care lease with flat monthly rate, no lease fee is the way to go, ballpark figure 600-800 month to have use of a horse 6 days/rides a week, 3 rides on each horse minimum possibily more. Let the rider pick the option of paying 600 lessons, coaching extra, or 800 to include 1 lesson a week and coaching at shows. Is that a reasonable cost? Doesn't cover half of their expenses but would help and I don't think it would be fair to ask someone to foot the entire bill while restricting them to my barn, my trainer.
                      Sorry, Don't want to list location here since that may be considered advertising.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by HJAlter84 View Post
                        Thanks for all your input. I am going to talk to the trainer about the possibilities. I think the care lease with flat monthly rate, no lease fee is the way to go, ballpark figure 600-800 month to have use of a horse 6 days/rides a week, 3 rides on each horse minimum possibily more. Let the rider pick the option of paying 600 lessons, coaching extra, or 800 to include 1 lesson a week and coaching at shows. Is that a reasonable cost? Doesn't cover half of their expenses but would help and I don't think it would be fair to ask someone to foot the entire bill while restricting them to my barn, my trainer.
                        Sorry, Don't want to list location here since that may be considered advertising.
                        I think the deal sounds plenty fair, especially with the 6 days per week option and the lessee paying less than half of the expenses.

                        You will probably be happiest if you shop this option around "in house" first because it is an on-farm lease. You want someone who wants to do it the way you and your trainer already do.

                        One of the coolest things about being an ammy who has already owned one and written all the checks for that is that I'm *delighted* not to be the owner and controller of the horse. Y'all can do that; I'm still paying for the semi-retired one of my own. I'm also happy to see how other people do it. It's education on the cheap as far as I'm concerned.

                        Best of luck in your search for the right team player to add on.
                        The armchair saddler
                        Politically Pro-Cat

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by HJAlter84 View Post
                          Thanks for all your input. I am going to talk to the trainer about the possibilities. I think the care lease with flat monthly rate, no lease fee is the way to go, ballpark figure 600-800 month to have use of a horse 6 days/rides a week, 3 rides on each horse minimum possibily more. Let the rider pick the option of paying 600 lessons, coaching extra, or 800 to include 1 lesson a week and coaching at shows. Is that a reasonable cost? Doesn't cover half of their expenses but would help and I don't think it would be fair to ask someone to foot the entire bill while restricting them to my barn, my trainer.
                          Sorry, Don't want to list location here since that may be considered advertising.
                          I think you're being exceedingly generous. I have free leased a couple of horses over the years, and was always happy to pay 100% of the horse's board, training, shoe, and vet costs because I was thankful to have full use of nice horses. If you're not going to be riding at all, there's no reason you should bear the financial burden of maintaining a horse for someone else to show.
                          "A canter is the cure for every evil."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by BABYGREENTB View Post
                            I think you're being exceedingly generous. I have free leased a couple of horses over the years, and was always happy to pay 100% of the horse's board, training, shoe, and vet costs because I was thankful to have full use of nice horses. If you're not going to be riding at all, there's no reason you should bear the financial burden of maintaining a horse for someone else to show.
                            Exactly. If your horses are as nice as you present them to be then they should consider themselves very lucky not to have to PAY A FEE for the priviledge of paying 100% of the horse's expenses
                            Originally posted by EquineImagined
                            My subconscious is a wretched insufferable beotch.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Yes, seems somewhere on the scale of reasonable to generous. But, that generosity may pay dividends in allowing you to be picky about who the person is and in allowing you more flexibility to retain some control over your very nice animals and in making the experience overall more pleasant.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                To ber perfectly honest, you're lease sounds perfect for what an ammy like me would love!! I would love to be able to have the freedom to ride on whatever days suit my schedule(which vaires based on childcare and work). Maybe thats because I don't care which horse I ride as much as getting to ride, I think a lot of adult MATURE(don't mean age!) ammies know that riding different horses works different skills in a rider and makes them stronger all around.

                                If I could afford it I would have a lease situation like what you describe, but I honestly don't care about showing. I consider it a fun way to get out and get independant judging of your skills. However, I just want to ride, and enjoy it, and work on strengthing my skills overall. And I'm super bonded to the one horse, even though he's rehabing right now, I still find the urge to go see him as strong as when I could ride him!

                                I think that if you hold out for the right rider and situation, you'll find that it not only benefits you but your horses as well!
                                You can't fix stupid.... but you can breed it!

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  Bee honey, that is exactly it, I want someone who will appreciate the horses and treat them well. I remember only too well being a jr and young adult with nothing competitive to ride. Loved the horses i had no matter what, and just affording them i know made me luckier than most but costs the same to keep one with less potential as a more athletic horse. Granted the person we get needs to have some income or parental support but this may be more doable for the average jr or young adult. If two in training and one retiree to support wasnt stretching the budget I'd love to do this for free. But then what isn't worked for is often taken for granted.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    In a situation such as this, write into the contract that at least one weekly lesson be taken with your trainer for each horse: this ensures that the horse, leasee & trainer are all on the same page.
                                    If at any time the leasee is unable/unwilling to afford the weekly lesson per horse, then the leasee may step down to riding only one horse etc with 30days notice.
                                    If you want the sale horse to be shown, then write that into the contract as well.

                                    You are offering a very nice opportunity to someone so make sure you place an appropriate value on this opportunity (if you end up with a leasee that is "perfect", you can always offer a reduction in the fees). Realize that should your nice horse be injured, most leasee's will disappear pretty quickly & not many leasee's actually treat a lease horse as considerately as their own horse.

                                    If your trainer has an amazing student that you'd be willing to offer a ride to at much reduced rates, then allow this person the opportunity to work off some of your horse's board.
                                    If the student rides at a much higher level than your horses are currently at, then again, reduce your expectations of monetary reimbursement ...

                                    Remember, you want to attract leasee's that are excited about riding your horses, not leasee's that are excited about an excellent "deal".

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Hi,

                                      Firstly, where are you!?!?! Haha in all seriousness, that sounds like an amazing situation that I would jump all over (I'm a junior, but I think I might fit the bill in terms of responsibility and horse-sense). All the above posters have given great advice, but I would say somewhere between half expenses and full board and half shoes (you do vet and insurance) is fair, and I have done something somewhat similar in the past.

                                      (ETA: I was thinking half expenses-> full expenses per horse... but if you want the horses to come as a package deal and find someone you like and actively WANT to have riding the horses, it might have to be less than full expenses for both, maybe closer to half expenses for each. It is also my personal opinion but probably not one held by the majority of the horse world that a half-lessor should not be responsible for insurance, but I'm sure some people would think that it was fine. I think it depends on what they are getting out of the situation--if they are trying to qualify for finals on the horse, then insurance is perfectly reasonable. If the are primarily riding at home, then maybe you pick it up or split it)
                                      Last edited by Cacique; Nov. 6, 2011, 08:14 AM.
                                      “Don’t ask yourself what the world needs; ask yourself what makes you come alive. And then go and do that. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive.” -Howard Thurman
                                      (}---{)

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        So they are half leasing 2 horses.. or rather, a full lease split over 2 horses. That seems like a very nice situation for someone
                                        "Sadly, some people's greatest skill, is being an idiot". (facebook profile pic I saw).

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