• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Well, it's baby backing time of year. Need some advice from you guys.

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Well, it's baby backing time of year. Need some advice from you guys.

    Hi all, so I have started backing my 2yr old small pony. I have a small teen who is starting to get on the little guy for me so that I can hold him.

    I bred him and raised him. I have been leaning on him, banging on his sides since birth. I knew this day would come so I wanted to make it stress free.

    So a month ago I started putting on the bridle and 2 weeks ago I started putting a saddle on.

    All went so well that I saddled him while he was eating and had the kid hop on from a step stool. Pony couldn’t care less. So when he was done eating, I led him around the stall with her on. Again, couldn’t care less. We did this 5 times with same wonderful lack of reaction.

    The next time, I saddled him and had her get on, I led her around the yard for 10 mins or so. I had her get off outside and I led him back in. Perfect pony. Until, we walked back into the barn and he caught the side of the saddle on the door and he got really spooked. Bolted forward and spun around.

    Fast forward a week, and I take him to my barn where the big grown up horses live. Again, a really well behaved pony. He learned to cross tie, lunge WTC and halt with the saddle on and the stirrups down. Couldn’t care less.

    So, I lunged him this morning, turned him out and had the kid get on him for the first time in the ring.

    He was a little nervous about the mounting block but calmed after a minute got nervous again when she stepped up on it but we took it slow and only progressed when he seemed settled. Got her on and I had someone next to her in case he freaked out she could pull her off. I really didn’t think that it would come to that though. Well, it did.

    Fine with her getting on but when we started to walk we got a total "OH MY GOD WHAT'S ON MY BACK" reaction. Took off (as much as he could with me holding him), humped back, fish tailing. All in the first 20 feet. So kid falls off with the help of the spotter. Man the little ones can get out from under you fast.

    We tried 4 times with the same reaction. So, the 5th time we just stood after mounting and then dismounted on purpose to end on a good note.

    So, where do I go from here? I was thinking of starting again in the stall. Any suggestions are appreciated.

    Thanks so much!

  • #2
    Was there any backing between the ride that ended badly and the one that started in the ring? That makes a difference, being both a bad experience and then possibly 3rd ride syndrome. The first few times I get on outside I always get on inside first, then move outside, then dismount and remount outside.

    Comment


    • #3
      He probably got scared last time with the saddle getting caught so I would go back to the stall until he is confident. When he comes out get a proper rider on him that is not getting whisked off every time he misbehaves. Don't worry too much about size of the rider, it's much more important he has a good confident rider that sticks with him and keeps him forward.

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        CBoylen, no this was the next ride. I'm hitting myself now that I didn't go back to the stall. I will tomorrow and ho from there.

        Keepthelegend I agree I think it is from the last ride.

        Comment


        • #5
          I would never use a child to back a youngster, pony or horse. You need to use a calm, capable adult who is used to riding babies that will stay calm and not panic/jump off if he gets a little goosey. The 3 of you reacting quickly and grabbing the kid off is only going to get him more tense and overreactive. Pretty soon it could escalate that he will not even let you get on without scooting or getting goosey.

          I would not get on in the stall, very dangerous if things go bad. Good way to break a leg or your head...


          I would recommend leading him with someone laying across him until he gets comfortable with the weight/ something moving across him while he stands and then walks. But first, lots of patting down all over before approaching the mounting block....on his rump, sides, belly, neck etc so he isn't so flinchy, use a towel if you need to. Don't try to get on until he will stand calmy and not be flinchy.

          Then take him up to the mounting block and just stand there....practice hopping up and down on the block and patting the saddle and him without getting on. Some will scoot/ get upset when you are above them like that and they need to learn to stand and think so they don't overreact. I usually do both sides for practice. Once the pony will stand nicely while you are moving around and patting him up there, start laying across him and eventually pet/rub his sides while he is standing. If he is scooty, keep cool and repeat until he finally takes a breath and tolerates it. Then when you feel he is not flinchy, start having the ground person walk him slowly and reassuringly with the other person laying across him. He may scoot the first few times when he feels the dead weight across him and it moving/brushing him as he walks. Keep repeating the whole process until he finally is relaxed and happy. Do not attempt to get astride him until he can walk comfortably like this.

          Bottom line is...he got scared and is not trusting what you are trying to do to him. He now needs you to take 2 steps back and work to get him relaxed and trusting again. You need to train that panic reaction out of him so he is not overreacting and starting some nasty habits. I start a lot of youngsters, horses and ponies, including smalls. Trust me, it is much better to teach them to stop and think/ask and not react when they are unsure. Those little ponies can be quick
          * Magic Hill Farm, LLC
          www.MagicHillFarmLLC.com
          "Bridging the Gap Between the Hunter Breeding and Performance Rings in the US"

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by MagicHillFarm View Post
            Then take him up to the mounting block and just stand there....practice hopping up and down on the block and patting the saddle and him without getting on. Some will scoot/ get upset when you are above them like that and they need to learn to stand and think so they don't overreact. I usually do both sides for practice. Once the pony will stand nicely while you are moving around and patting him up there, start laying across him and eventually pet/rub his sides while he is standing. If he is scooty, keep cool and repeat until he finally takes a breath and tolerates it. Then when you feel he is not flinchy, start having the ground person walk him slowly and reassuringly with the other person laying across him. He may scoot the first few times when he feels the dead weight across him and it moving/brushing him as he walks. Keep repeating the whole process until he finally is relaxed and happy. Do not attempt to get astride him until he can walk comfortably like this.
            This is exactly how I start mine.
            Stoneybrook Farm Afton TN

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by MagicHillFarm View Post
              I would never use a child to back a youngster, pony or horse. You need to use a calm, capable adult who is used to riding babies that will stay calm and not panic/jump off if he gets a little goosey. The 3 of you reacting quickly and grabbing the kid off is only going to get him more tense and overreactive. Pretty soon it could escalate that he will not even let you get on without scooting or getting goosey.

              I would not get on in the stall, very dangerous if things go bad. Good way to break a leg or your head...


              I would recommend leading him with someone laying across him until he gets comfortable with the weight/ something moving across him while he stands and then walks. But first, lots of patting down all over before approaching the mounting block....on his rump, sides, belly, neck etc so he isn't so flinchy, use a towel if you need to. Don't try to get on until he will stand calmy and not be flinchy.

              Then take him up to the mounting block and just stand there....practice hopping up and down on the block and patting the saddle and him without getting on. Some will scoot/ get upset when you are above them like that and they need to learn to stand and think so they don't overreact. I usually do both sides for practice. Once the pony will stand nicely while you are moving around and patting him up there, start laying across him and eventually pet/rub his sides while he is standing. If he is scooty, keep cool and repeat until he finally takes a breath and tolerates it. Then when you feel he is not flinchy, start having the ground person walk him slowly and reassuringly with the other person laying across him. He may scoot the first few times when he feels the dead weight across him and it moving/brushing him as he walks. Keep repeating the whole process until he finally is relaxed and happy. Do not attempt to get astride him until he can walk comfortably like this.

              Bottom line is...he got scared and is not trusting what you are trying to do to him. He now needs you to take 2 steps back and work to get him relaxed and trusting again. You need to train that panic reaction out of him so he is not overreacting and starting some nasty habits. I start a lot of youngsters, horses and ponies, including smalls. Trust me, it is much better to teach them to stop and think/ask and not react when they are unsure. Those little ponies can be quick

              AGREE 100%
              Life is hard. After all, it kills you. - K. Hepburn

              Comment


              • #8
                And this is why when people bitch in the sporthorse breeding section about what it cost to start youngsters my blood boils. The tiniest misjudgements can lead to lifelong issues. But somehow when picking someone to start a youngster they go with the cheap price. I agree with Magic Hill and Tidy Rabbit. It's how I start my babies. I do however do this at the end if the training session which includes driving. Brakes and steering are in place before I climb aboard. From the very first session they know I will be laying across.

                I broke a pony this year for a client for his daughter. She hadn't ridden in 2 years after a bad horse accident and had zero confidence on horses anymore. I told client straight that we would have to see how it went but that I absolutely could not guarantee a safe mount for a terrified rider. After I had her riding solidly for about 3 weeks I started doing things awkward riders might do. Like getting on and hitting her in the butt. Simulating getting off balance and half falling off. Kicking too hard. Knocking her in the mouth. Yeah sounds awful but I really was just trying to cover all bases. She had the whoa voice command down pat as whoa meant stop and pat. A release from pressure. Also getting up and down in all sorts of manners. Some fail, some the right way. I knew I just couldn't leave it at a solid happy riding away pony. She must have trusted me a little as she was a diamond for all of it. Clients daughter had started taking lessons again before starting to ride her pony. I told the dad it still may not be a good match just because this is a just started pony. But the 2 of them never looked back. Not one glitch. She rides her everywhere and is doing small fences now as well. Pony gets a break for the winter and will start back in spring.

                You have to redo everything from the ground up and give that pony his confidence back.

                Terri
                COTH, keeping popcorn growers in business for years.

                "I need your grace to remind me to find my own." Snow Patrol-Chasing Cars. This line reminds me why I have horses.

                Comment


                • #9
                  agree w/magichill, except i do usually start getting on in the stall. I use a tall white bucket as a mounting block, after leading them around and letting them knock it over, etc. I lay across until theyre happy, and every time we go to a new spot as well-i.e.outdoors. I wouldn't ever advise putting a kid on-reminds me of the thelwell cartoon with a baby in the tack- "always put a lighter weight on before getting on yourself", and the advice to put a "lad of no consequence" on first.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by CBoylen View Post
                    Was there any backing between the ride that ended badly and the one that started in the ring? That makes a difference, being both a bad experience and then possibly 3rd ride syndrome. The first few times I get on outside I always get on inside first, then move outside, then dismount and remount outside.
                    This. Exactly as CBoylen says. We do the same thing. And, unfortunately, there is no prediction as to when they might have a freak out moment. Some will be perfectly fine for several rides and then suddenly have a meltdown when let off the lead line. The key is to have a rider who 1) never lets guard down and 2) can feel it coming and deal with it when it does. Otherwise, you will be leading them around forever.
                    Laurie

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I agree, is is actually pretty normal for a horse to be fine for the first few rides and then test you a few rides in. Get an adult on and try NOT to come off, whisking the kid off is not going to help anything. Pony is learning that if if bucks, the annoyance on its back gets removed. That is not the association you want it to make.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        My advice to you would be to get a professional to start the pony, or if you want to do it yourself, do it under the guidance of a professional. Reading what you've done so far, you've missed a lot of important steps that could have probably prevented what happened.

                        Just because they aren't bothered by something once, DOES NOT MEAN they are ready to move on to the next thing or that they are really fine with it.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Also, is it really baby backing time of year? With the cold weather arriving my horses are all lunatics, even the old fogies. I like to start mine in the dead of July when it is 100 degrees outside and they find it to be way too much effort to buck me off. Not now when my 18-year-old nearing-retirement horse thinks bucking looks fun. Just my personal preference. I like to stack the odds in my favor.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I start long lining mine in the middle of the hottest stretch of summer. Then after a few months of this and ponying them around I get on. It's generally cool out by this point. I've never had one have a melt down or a freak out undersaddle because they've already worked out the kinks with ground work.
                            Stoneybrook Farm Afton TN

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by tidy rabbit View Post
                              I start long lining mine in the middle of the hottest stretch of summer. Then after a few months of this and ponying them around I get on. It's generally cool out by this point. I've never had one have a melt down or a freak out undersaddle because they've already worked out the kinks with ground work.
                              Tidy, what age do you (or anyone else who wants to comment) start long lining, etc? Two or three?
                              DIY Journey of Remodeling the Farmette: http://weownblackacre.blogspot.com/

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Doing the basics is certainly more important than the time of year! I've always just done it in the summer since that is when it I have time. I am sure it would be fine whenever as long as the proper groundwork is done.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I start them long lining in the summer of their 2 yo year. Then in the fall I do about 10 to 14 days total undersaddle and then leave them alone for the most part all winter. Might take them along to some indoor winter horse shows to hang out and ride around with a buddy late at night when every thing is quiet. But that's about it until the following spring.
                                  Stoneybrook Farm Afton TN

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    I am going to echo the huge necessity of long lining effectively before attempting to ride. This installs steering and brakes BEFORE the rider gets on. Also, do not use a child as a test pilot. This is the HUGE problem in starting small ponies, getting a pilot who is small enough, who also has the experience to know what to do when riding a youngster for the first few rides.

                                    Things have gone backwards on you already, stuff that you should have forseen in advance. For this reason, I am thinking you have not broke many babies previously. While everyone has to start somewhere, with their first project, perhaps you need a more experienced eye with you to help avoid further problems, and help fix what has already happened. This pony sounds frightened, and that is about the worst situation to deal with now.

                                    You must figure out exactly WHAT is frightening this pony, and address that. This may take a trainer with more experience than you currently have. Use of blinkers at this stage may also help, if it is the sight of the rider that is part of the problem. The pony is not being "bad", it's scared, and not responsible for what it might do next as a result. It needs confidence, in it's rider, in it's handlers, and in itself, that it knows what is being asked of it, and has accepted what is being asked.

                                    Good luck with your pony.
                                    www.cordovafarm.weebly.com

                                    Comment

                                    Working...
                                    X