Received some bad news yesterday,advice stories and prayers accepted

[believetobe]

*Caution long post

I have had a long saga with horses that I won't go into in too much depth here. I'll just set the framework for the importance of my mare.
The seed planted in me as a little girl to be a Hunter Jumper has never died. I was always that kid who would sell her soul to ride a horse or spend time in a barn. When we would drive past the hunter/jumper shows in my town I would literally weep with longing and daydream about competing there someday. I have worked very hard since age 12 and made countless sacrifices to pursue my dreams. There are some things that no matter how hard you try and no matter how inconvenient or stressful they become you just can't shake. I come from a very poor non-horsey family but always found a way to either own a horse or lease a horse. I took a break through college to focus on my studies and work 60 hours per week. I am now a young professional and I suppose what would be considered a re-rider since i took about 4 years off. I am fairly new (off and on for the past 3 years) to A circuit hunter jumpers. I rode a greenie of my trainers, leased for a year, and now have my current horse. I am blessed with a fabulous affordable instructor(I've ridden with her since age 16). She pushes me hard and is very old school in her methods. It has made me a very capable and competitive rider and I am so grateful to her. She is also the consummate horseman- think GM type. She has always been the one to help me find my horses etc.
The backstory on me and my mare is almost too good to be true. I heard of her through my instructor and actually picked her up from an equine rescue (she should never have been there). She is a Dark Bay 15 year old 16.3 hand Oldenburg mare with Holsteiner C line on the sire side. I have her papers and she has a brand. She has a large heart shaped marking on her forehead and was called Corazon (Cora for short). I hopped on and rode her and she easily(though out of shape) did 2nd level dressage movements. She moved beautifully and had the best disposition of any horse I'd ever ridden. We had her checked over by a vet and my trainer and took her home! Every time I look at her I am reminded that God cares about my dreams and all of the things in my heart. This mare makes me feel so loved and represents so much to me. I could never have imagined owning this caliber of horse at this stage in my life. She is my heart horse even though I have owned her less than a year.
We got her into shape and started her over fences and she LOVES it. She was obviously trained as a hunter at some point because she is much better at distances than me and never bats an eyelash at a fence . We actually found out from some people that owned her previously that she did compete as a hunter! With her most recent owners she also was in a prestigious dressage program doing up to 2nd level though they rode training level. All contact we had with previous owners also revealed that she was sound and had been placed at the rescue for financial reasons. Since my trainer makes us take things slow we did the long stirrup this year and had the BEST time. Cora thinks 2'6 is stupid though and we were schooling to move up to 3' for 2012 as my trainer thought I was ready and we would be competitive. The entire time I have owned her she has been completely sound and happy. I I left for vacation for one day and my mare came in from the field with what looked like a bow. We treated it as such-stall rest, icing, walking, wrapping regimen. About two weeks later we had it ultra sounded and nothing was found. Mare was sound but I still did stall rest, icing, walking to be safe. After another month of stall rest she got to go out in a small flat area alone for turnout. She was doing great and vet said we could slowly add in trotting and get her back in shape.
I left for vacation again (2days) and during that time my horse somehow got out of her small enclosed area (hotwire)and got out with another mare whom she kicked very high up on the hip. My horse would NOT put weight on her right hind and we guessed it was a muscle tear (easily felt) and got the vet out. (By the way her left front "tendon" injury is perfect). Mare was on turnout, hot/cold and massage therapy for the muscle. Well after about a month of no improvement I had another vet (well respected lameness vet) come out for a second opinion. And here comes the bad news: He said that the muscle tear was the least of our problems. She sustained a significant stifle injury and he also says that her SI is slipping(not good). Since she won't bear weight on that leg her other leg/hip is in high danger of injury and development of laminitis. He concluded this through flexions and general exam. No X-ray or ultrasound yet. He told me I could inject the stifle which likely wouldn't help. He recommended I either put her out for a year to see if she improves or if she doesn't we would most likely need to put her down as the pain would be hard/expensive to manage. He put her on bute and said we should xray in a couple of weeks. I don't want my precious mare in pain! This horse is all heart and a fighter and I really don't think she wants to be put down. She doesn't act like she's in that much pain, Happily comes to the gait, She has a bright expression and is always excited about whatever we may be doing. Her walk looks sound, but she constantly rests the right hind, her trot is a 4/5 lame. She Loves life and she Loves work. My plans with competition are the least of my concerns at this point. I want this mare to live the rest of her life happy and well. I was planning on breeding her in three years after I retired her. I am hoping this diagnosis means early retirement and nothing worse And there is still a part of me that clings to the hope that she will be totally sound and in work again. Needless to say it has been a lot to take in and I don't know what to think.
I am scheduling another vet so I can get another opinion and know for sure. He is a surgeon and professor at WSU. I have friends that have had great things come out of dire prognosis with him. I am going to have him do a full work up and go from there.
I just had to tell someone as I don't have many horsey people in my life that understand. My DH has been sweet- he was actually crying with me yesterday. My trainer thinks Cora will pull through this and I do too. If you have any insight or advice to share I'm all ears. Prayers and Jingles sent this way are welcome too! Thanks for listening.

[Vetvivi]

I can't give you much in the way of advice- just to be strong, stay the course and makes decisions based on what is best for your horse! (Which from this, I know you will). I am truly sorry to hear about this, and I send my prayers and luck your way that your horsie will remain happy and healthy!

[Fiction]

I had to put down my horse of a lifetime about 1 year ago. She was just 14 years old and still in her prime but her injuries had reached the point where all of our vets agreed it was the most humane thing to do. It wasn't easy- it never is- but if you need someone to talk to, feel free to PM me. I know what you're going through.

[AKB]

You are doing everything right. Now, you have to wait for time to tell you how all of this will play out. The WSU vet should be able to give you advice about how to give your mare the best chance for recovery. Then, you just have to wait.

We have several horses who have beaten the odds. Eleven years ago, we were told by a prominent vet that our one horse would definitely be dead within 3 years, and would likely be dead in a few months. That horse then evented, did 4th level dressage, and now, at age 23 is retired.

Try not to get too discouraged. do what needs to be done for your mare and then be patient.

[fordtraktor]

I am very sorry about your horse.

Get a second opinion, along with rads/Xrays/etc. now. If it is something you can fix you need to start sooner rather than later. Preferably a month ago, but better now than a few weeks from now. Otherwise her chance of coming back -- very slim.

You can't mess around waiting with non-weight bearing injuries. The part that makes me think second opinion is that there have been no pics yet. You need pics at least of that stifle. SI is harder to get but...no pics at all?

The turn her out and see option is not really viable for a non-weight-bearing horse, it's not humane and she's just going to founder. Unless you can get her weight-bearing when you dope the tar out of her, in which case it might be an option if you dope the tar out of her for a while. I am usually a fan of Dr. Green but not in a case like this, too serious.

[CVPeg]

How heartbreaking!

Sending plenty of jingles. Hope you receive positive news soon.

[M. O'Connor]

That WAS a long post.

Take a look at it yourself, and remove all the emotional parts (that would include fears as well as hopes).

Consider only the facts of the injuries. When, what, and what you've done about it so far.

Then, research outcomes of similar injuries with similar severities. Ask yourself, if a significant percentage of the outcomes sound successful. If not, why not? If so, how was it accomplished?

Then compare other similar situations to that of your mare's. If you render a more coherent description of exactly what happened to your horse, it may be possible for other posters to offer their own experiences so you can benefit from their experiences. (At the moment, it seems your mare injured herself while kicking another? That can't be, isn't she the injured one...?)

What does your being on vacation have to do with any of it? What level of care is offered and what routines are followed that are altered when you are absent? What protocol are you following with her now? Who is responsible for doing it? If the barn can't handle you being gone for 2 days, how will an extensive rehab be handled? How much expertise will be required to provide your horse with optimum rehab? Importantly, is putting off a decision about whether to put your horse down fair to the horse, or not?

What about the expense? Is it something you can handle? Sacrificing one's own comfort and well being for a horse's is justifiable for some people, while others don't see it that way. Neither side is "wrong," but there are a lot of needy horses/people around at the moment. You and your vets and your trainer (who should certainly be in on both educating you and helping to find a resolution to this) have some decisions to make. It might be wise to decide quickly whether this particular battle is one you can win, before it gets long and drawn out--a non-weight bearing limb in a horse indicates a very serious condition, and prolonging the inevitable until the horse has suffered a lot of pain should be avoided, IMO.

[TBROCKS]

On the basis of a very basic exam, doesn't it seem a little premature to be talking permanent lameness and euthanasia? I'm glad you're getting another opinion. I've been down the stifle injury road. It took a long time, but my horse recovered, and I'm sending loud jingles that yours will also. Adequan can be very helpful in acute stifle injuries-did the original vet suggest it?

[believetobe]

Thanks for all of your support and replies everyone. I really appreciate it!
MOconnor my mare was injured by kicking the other is what I am assuming(thinking she strained from stretching her leg up so high). As the next day when i got home was when we noticed the injury. The situation is a bit shrouded in mystery as no one at the barn saw or noticed anything other than my mare being out with the other. Cora didn't have a mark on her. I was in a self care boarding situation at the time and was paying someone to look after her for me for a couple days. Needless to say I have now moved to a very trustworthy full care barn capable of handling extensive rehab. Wish I would have done that immediately after the first injury. Thanks for the reminder re: finances and emotions- hard to balance.
tbrocks I am going to have him inject the stifle though he thought it may not help anything.

[Jacqui]

Healing thoughts and prayers coming your way! Take a deep breath and do more testing and definitely get a second, expert opinion.
Good Luck

[JustJump]

Injections are for arthritic joints that deteriorate with time. Not for treating acute injuries.

My inclination would be not to inject, if for no other reason than the vet who came up with the suggestion thinks it won't work, but also because it will just complicate matters if you wind up doing further diagnostic work later on.

[GingerJumper]

No advice, just jingles for you and your horse. So sorry you're dealing with this

[Squirt]

I had a mare that did something similar, kicked out at another horse and missed. Blew out her quadricep completely. Don't know if the stifle was really injured or not because we didn't take films. Vet put her on 6 weeks of stall rest which I wasn't sure if either one of us would survive(she had just came off of the track). I threw her out in a pasture after the stall rest for about 6 months and then I went on to show her for eight more years in various disciplines, including jumpers up to 4'6". She was stiffer in that stifle as she got older, adequan helped a LOT. So don't lose hope yet!

[Equilibrium]

7 1/2 years ago I was looking for a riding horse. An aquaintance told me about an ex racehorse that had hyper extended his hock in a jumping race but that he would be fine. So I went and had a look at him. What I saw was a pathetic creature standing in a stable full of crap, no light, and doors shut top and bottom. He hobbled out of the stable and not only did he have this hock thing he had a big gaping wound at the back of the knee with proud flesh. Well I really couldn't leave him there could I? So I bought him and brought him home. It was a 3 hour journey and he shook and sweated the whole way.

Got vet out immediately and x-rayed hock. Apparently it looks like someone smashed a fist down on a chip bag. Only vet advice was it might be kinder to put him down as he will never come sound. But he still left me expensive meds to treat proud flesh wound. So I sat at the kitchen table with hubby and we debated for 2 hours on what to do. Finally went out to see Frank and I decided I'd let him decide.

This horse was lame but he was careful on himself so thinking he was on borrowed time, I used to let him out during the day in a small paddock so he could have grass and be happy. That stupid knee wound kept abcessing and was disgusting. Geez it was frustrating. And Frank was a confirmed choker. But ever so slowly he started improving. After 3 months I decided to give him a job as weaning partner to my first foal. I will never ever forget the sight of him standing over a little filly weanling while she was sleeping in the rain. I really needed that memory trust me! Then one day after 6 months I saw him galloping around with Heidi and I thought he's 100% sound. 9 months after that diagnosis I was back riding him. Vet came back and said because I'd turned him out instead of leaving him stall bound the chips healed in a way conducive to movement. Although that never would have been the recommendation. Then I set about reschooling him as he was a chaser. He is an amazing mover and ended up a beautiful horse to ride. But he hates travel and it wasn't worth me putting through the stress. But he did so many other jobs he more than earned his keep. He used to be the lead horse for all the TB babies we broke. He loved it!

I still have him and to be honest he's a right wagon! He's a so so company horse. After those lovely memories of him being such a gent to Heidi as a foal, he tried to kill her as a yearling. Would never trust him with a weanling again. But if you have a mannerless pig of a horse, he is great company. About 3 weeks ago I was uttering things about the knacker yard when he took a chunk out of my jumper mare over the fence. Just trotted up to the fence and attacked. She wasn't expecting it and got a shock so threw her head up and got tangled in the electric fencing. Ok she's not real bright but it was just unprovoked and normally they scratch over said fence. But I love him so I just make it work.

So do not give up hope. Really try and find out what's going on exactly and just give it time. She may just end up perfectly fine. I know that was a long story but I wanted to show all hope is not lost.

Hugs
Terri

[Justice]

I am so sorry. I would not inject. Just get a thorough second opinion, and go from there. Jingling my curb chain for you.

[Pennywell Bay]

Good advice above. I would get a second opinion. 16 year ago, the gelding who I rehabbed (after a nearly fatal car accident that left me w/ too many injuires to list and 15 + years of surgeries) had a horrific accident ( when I was not there).

First vet "Euthanize him, collect the insurance and get a new horse."
Thankfully, I had someone step in-get another vet in and check my dear horse into New Bolton.

He never lost "the look". He never gave up, and neither did I.

Screw insurance, we paid ourselves (at the time new and crazy surgery, now routine). I turned him out for a year.

Fast forward 16 years. The only thing that made me feel "normal" after my surgery is still here, munching away in his field. He turned up sound after his surgery. I returned to riding him but not a show career. I am ok w/ that.

Recently retired after a fungal infection made us enucleate one of his eyes, he gave me 16 years of joy riding him.

Get a second opinion. And good luck.

[DMK]

actually, injections can be for acute or chronic injuries - depends on the circumstances, but I've seen plenty of instances where using IA HA/steroid breaks the cycle of acute inflammation...

But you need to know why you are injecting, so I'd invest my first dollars in a more definitive diagnosis, be it x-rays or perhaps a trip to a larger facility with appropriate diagnostics. Also, if she is sound to the walk and not sound to the trot/resting the leg when standing, it may be that she is also having muscle spasms concurrent with the injury and maybe t/o will allow that low slow repetitive movement (walking and grazing) that allows the muscle to become more flexible/stronger. But again, you probably need a clearer diagnosis and plan of treatment to know if that is the case and turnout really is the right answer. But sometimes if you give the body enough tools and time, it can do some pretty amazing things.

[Hevonen]

Sound at the walk and dead lame at the trot?

If that's the case, my horse presented with very similar injuries about eight months ago. I went out in his pasture to catch a different horse and saw him walking sound. I was admiring his overstep and when he went to trot he was DEAD lame on the left hind. I just about fell over. No marks on him, not sensitive to hoof testers, but did not want to let his leg be pulled forward. No swelling, no heat, nothing anyone could find. He would stand on it, however.

I scheduled an appointment with a big lameness specialist in our area, then put him on stall rest and hand grazed him. A week later I had him out in a very small paddock grazing. He was very quiet so I left him alone to help my trainer. Next thing I know he's pitching an absolute fit, bucking and rearing and running. He threw in a couple of REALLY strong fast kicks... and then trotted sound. I kid you not.

I pulled him out and trotted him for my trainer and sure enough, not a hint of the debilitating injury. As best we can tell, he had wrenched something out of place playing and his antics had pushed it back into place. Strangest thing ever, I have to knock on wood just thinking about it!

So that long story leads to my suggestion- have a chiropractor look at it. Not saying its the same thing my gelding did, but it might be worth it (and save you some money in the future) to have that avenue explored. I would never have guessed what was wrong with my boy, he seemed sidelined with an SI/stifle injury at first glance.

Good luck!

[TBROCKS]

Adequan can be given IM (not in the joint) for 7 days for acute stifle injury.

[MoonWitch]

My 24yo semi-retired boy came in from the field holding up his right hind and not wanting to bear any weight. Ultrasound found nothing, but x-rays came back with the news of a tear in the lateral patella and a inoperable bone chip. Six weeks of stall rest, joint injected, light turnout and then full turnout with "mellow fellows". Pulled his hind shoes so that the joints could adjust as needed and put him on Legend. He took it all like the champ that he is and I am happy to report that he and I are back to casual riding on trails again! His jumping days are over (obviously) and he's not comfortable in the ring, but out on the trails he's fine!!

Don't loose heart!!