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difference between varsity/NCAA/IHSA etc?

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  • difference between varsity/NCAA/IHSA etc?

    In this thread:

    http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=323292

    I asked the question of where the line is exactly between varsity and NCAA and IHSA and club teams. (Please glance through if you have any desire for more background ) I won't quote everyone's posts from there without permission.

    Can anyone give me a solid answer?? I am really curious now!!

  • #2
    Please see Ben and Me's answer on the other thread. Its Division 1 vs. Division 3 status of school.

    Comment


    • #3
      Hope this helps....

      This is what I posted in the other thread....

      Divison 1 schools with riding teams compete at NCAA events.

      Division 3 schools with riding teams compete at IHSA shows and may have a regional athletic conference final. Division 3 schools CANNOT give athletic scholarships -- that is the defining feature for D3 sports/schools. Because it is a varsity sport, however, the IHSA teams are heavily (or completely) subsidized by the schools -- this differentiates them from a club team -- and have extra requirements that club teams may not have, such as workouts, etc. This is similar to a D3 varsity soccer team vs. a club soccer team at any school. Just because it isn't varsity at a D1 school doesn't mean that it isn't "varsity." Every year, we had to go through the same NCAA-provided power points about being amateurs, not accepting money for our sport, etc.

      For example, many of the schools in the Hollins/Sweet Briar/W&L/Randolph College/Bridgewater region are D3/Varsity riding schools...that compete at IHSA events. Also in this IHSA region are UVA and James Madison, which are D1 schools, and have riding as a club sport.

      However, the D3 schools also compete against each other at the Old Dominion Athletic Conference finals each year. This is not an IHSA show and has a different format from the NCAA shows as well. Only schools that are members of the ODAC (a D3 version of the SEC or ACC) can compete in this show.

      I would imagine that if the conference was so inclined, they could switch to having only ODAC meets -- like a D3 version of the NCAA D1 shows. However, until that happens, the teams compete at IHSA during the year...but there is no reason why they couldn't compete at NCAA D3 events, if they existed.

      I'm not sure if I articulated that as well as I could have...but I hope it reiterates what the others above me have posted and helps clarify.
      PS - Thanks for the fellow-ODAC graduate shout-out, PW

      Comment


      • #4
        Maybe things have changed, but this is how I understood everything when I ran my school's IHSA team.

        IME, varsity is a school designation. It means the team is treated as any other sport, under the athletics department, and not as a club. This usually means the team is fully funded as well.

        If a team isn't varsity, it is a club sport. Amount of funding and support varies greatly from school to school. I know club teams that are fully funded by the school, and others that are entirely student funded through fundraisers and monthly dues.

        A D1 school with a varsity team would ride in the NCAA.

        Anything else (D3 varsity team, D1 club sport, D3 club sport, etc,.) would ride IHSA.

        There are also plenty of little conferences and meets between different groups- with different formats. However, these are generally one show type of things that are in addition to either NCAA or IHSA.

        ETA: Sorry to repeat, just saw Ben and Me's post.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by joiedevie99 View Post
          Maybe things have changed, but this is how I understood everything when I ran my school's IHSA team.

          IME, varsity is a school designation. It means the team is treated as any other sport, under the athletics department, and not as a club. This usually means the team is fully funded as well.

          If a team isn't varsity, it is a club sport. Amount of funding and support varies greatly from school to school. I know club teams that are fully funded by the school, and others that are entirely student funded through fundraisers and monthly dues.

          A D1 school with a varsity team would ride in the NCAA.

          Anything else (D3 varsity team, D1 club sport, D3 club sport, etc,.) would ride IHSA.

          There are also plenty of little conferences and meets between different groups- with different formats. However, these are generally one show type of things that are in addition to either NCAA or IHSA.

          ETA: Sorry to repeat, just saw Ben and Me's post.
          good answer!

          Comment


          • #6
            Division II teams varsity can also compete NCAA. Division III schools cannot as their Athletic Directors had voted to decline to support Equestrian as an women's emerging sport.

            Division I schools may choose to do NCAA or IHSA (Brown and Dartmouth have in the past stuck with IHSA but they also compete in a Ivy League competition.)
            It's 2016. Do you know where your old horse is?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Darden View Post
              Division II teams varsity can also compete NCAA. Division III schools cannot as their Athletic Directors had voted to decline to support Equestrian as an women's emerging sport.

              Division I schools may choose to do NCAA or IHSA (Brown and Dartmouth have in the past stuck with IHSA but they also compete in a Ivy League competition.)
              This.

              Doesn't matter if your school is D1 or D2, they can compete in NCAA or IHSA.

              NCAA is considered varsity: schools will give scholarships, funded by school, more competitive, different style of competition, and generally recruits its members.
              NCAA competitions are head to head, so each competition is between two schools.

              IHSA is "club": generally less competitive, no scholarships, can either be funded by the school or by team members or combination, teams usually do not recruit and depending on the school, people will try out when they get to school (some schools allow anyone to join).
              IHSA is divided into Regions/Zones. Schools in each region compete against each other all year and then go onto zones, and then nationals. There are 6 divisions based on prior show experience (3 flat, 3 over fences/flat).

              Hope that helps!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by PaintedWhisper View Post
                Please see Ben and Me's answer on the other thread. Its Division 1 vs. Division 3 status of school.
                Nope. See the later post about Division 3 not being eligible for NCAA due to a vote of ADs. However, 1 and 2 can choose as others have stated. NCAA vs. IHSA are choices on which organization to participate under, how to run shows, and which set of rules to follow. I believe NCAA is always a varsity sport; IHSA is up to the school whether or not they choose to recognize it as such. IHSA does not count toward Title IX, but NCAA can.

                Originally posted by joiedevie99 View Post
                Maybe things have changed, but this is how I understood everything when I ran my school's IHSA team.

                IME, varsity is a school designation. It means the team is treated as any other sport, under the athletics department, and not as a club. This usually means the team is fully funded as well.

                If a team isn't varsity, it is a club sport. Amount of funding and support varies greatly from school to school. I know club teams that are fully funded by the school, and others that are entirely student funded through fundraisers and monthly dues.
                This part is correct. At Dartmouth we were only partially funded - starting this year the team is "fully funded" per an email sent to alumni/donors. I am waiting to learn what that means exactly.

                Originally posted by Darden View Post
                Division II teams varsity can also compete NCAA. Division III schools cannot as their Athletic Directors had voted to decline to support Equestrian as an women's emerging sport.

                Division I schools may choose to do NCAA or IHSA (Brown and Dartmouth have in the past stuck with IHSA but they also compete in a Ivy League competition.)
                What Darden said here. I beileve my freshman year (spring '96) was the first year of the All-Ivy competition. The coaches thought it sounded fun, so we hosted it. We ran it like an IHSA competition, but it wouldn't have mattered what organization a team was under. This was not an official IHSA competition, and points were not accumulated toward qualifications for regionals. It was an independent event for fun.
                If Kim Kardashian wants to set up a gofundme to purchase the Wu Tang album from Martin Shkreli, guess what people you DON'T HAVE TO DONATE.
                -meupatdoes

                Comment


                • #9
                  Sorry to hijack this thread, but do any of the University level teams do dressage? I've only seen hunter/jumper and western so far.

                  TIA.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Darden View Post
                    Division II teams varsity can also compete NCAA. Division III schools cannot as their Athletic Directors had voted to decline to support Equestrian as an women's emerging sport.

                    Division I schools may choose to do NCAA or IHSA (Brown and Dartmouth have in the past stuck with IHSA but they also compete in a Ivy League competition.)
                    Then why did I have to sit through hours and hours of NCAA power points on eligibility at my D3 school? And why was I told by our athletic director that the university could institute a fee for riding since it was classified as an Emerging Sport? Maybe because we have that ODAC competition? (which would be the equivalent of the All Ivy for us?)

                    I could've been out having fun!

                    ETA a quote from the W&L athletics website.... http://www.generalssports.com/inform...s_at_W-L/index

                    W&L follows the NCAA Division III guidelines of awarding financial aid based only on family need and academic merit. The result is a strong, diverse program in which participants are motivated by their love of the game and their desire to excel.

                    Washington and Lee offers 23 varsity sports, 12 for men and 11 for women. A 24th sport, Women's Golf, will begin competition in the fall of 2012. All sports compete at the NCAA Division III level and most participate in the Old Dominion Athletic Conference (ODAC).
                    Riding is listed as one of the 11 women's sports.

                    So, we definitely followed NCAA guidelines...

                    I think what Darden is saying is that even though we were a D3 varsity sport, and had to follow NCAA guidelines as such, we couldn't have competed at D1/D2 NCAA events even if we had wanted to. Right?
                    Last edited by Ben and Me; Oct. 6, 2011, 10:10 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Xpression View Post
                      Sorry to hijack this thread, but do any of the University level teams do dressage? I've only seen hunter/jumper and western so far.

                      TIA.
                      http://www.teamdressage.com/

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by brooksbaby View Post
                        This.

                        Doesn't matter if your school is D1 or D2, they can compete in NCAA or IHSA.

                        NCAA is considered varsity: schools will give scholarships, funded by school, more competitive, different style of competition, and generally recruits its members.
                        NCAA competitions are head to head, so each competition is between two schools.

                        IHSA is "club": generally less competitive, no scholarships, can either be funded by the school or by team members or combination, teams usually do not recruit and depending on the school, people will try out when they get to school (some schools allow anyone to join).
                        IHSA is divided into Regions/Zones. Schools in each region compete against each other all year and then go onto zones, and then nationals. There are 6 divisions based on prior show experience (3 flat, 3 over fences/flat).

                        Hope that helps!

                        But it is NOT considered a "club" at many schools, it is considered a varsity sport. That is what Ammy's question was really about on the original thread.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by PaintedWhisper View Post
                          But it is NOT considered a "club" at many schools, it is considered a varsity sport. That is what Ammy's question was really about on the original thread.
                          Hmm interesting, every school I know of that does IHSA is club. Regardless of whether they have an NCAA team. My school does not have an NCAA team and IHSA is still considered club. Maybe I am wrong, but I am not sure how exactly IHSA would be considered varsity.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by brooksbaby View Post
                            Hmm interesting, every school I know of that does IHSA is club. Regardless of whether they have an NCAA team. My school does not have an NCAA team and IHSA is still considered club. Maybe I am wrong, but I am not sure how exactly IHSA would be considered varsity.
                            That is because IHSA versus NCAA has NOTHING TO DO with whether a sport is a varisty sport or not. The question's not really framed right. Varisty determination is made solely by the school--are they going to give scholarships and support. You can be an IHSA team and be varisty if the school decides to do it. You can be an IHSA team and be a club sport. It's up to the institution.

                            When I rode at W&L, we were new and a club sport, largely run by the students (which sucked for those of us not in the right or any sorority, but that's as may be) and didn't do ODACs. (Note: W&L is somewhat odd in all sports in general as many many moons ago we were Division I. Then half the football team got expelled for academic cheating, which is a one-shot offense--you cheat at anything, you're gone. We only have one punishment for lying, cheating, and stealing but it's a doozy. After that they voluntarily changed divisions. Or so the story goes.) The program's expanded a lot since then.

                            Division III schools are still subject to NCAA rules. They don't compete against Division II or Division I schools (and even within Division I are levels, for a reason. It was sort of sad and yet entertaining when VMI when up to play an out-of-conference game at Annapolis. They wouldn't even discuss it when they got back.)

                            http://www.generalssports.com/sports/riding/index
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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by brooksbaby View Post
                              Hmm interesting, every school I know of that does IHSA is club. Regardless of whether they have an NCAA team. My school does not have an NCAA team and IHSA is still considered club. Maybe I am wrong, but I am not sure how exactly IHSA would be considered varsity.
                              Charleston competes IHSA but the school has designated Equestrian a varsity sport aka NCAA guidelines and funding.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by brooksbaby View Post
                                Hmm interesting, every school I know of that does IHSA is club. Regardless of whether they have an NCAA team. My school does not have an NCAA team and IHSA is still considered club. Maybe I am wrong, but I am not sure how exactly IHSA would be considered varsity.
                                My team is varsity and we compete in the IHSA and not NCAA. The school funds pretty much everything - board for the team horses, team members' lessons, IHSA/USHJA member fees, horse show fees, transportation to shows, food at shows, etc..

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Fiction
                                  If you go to the athletic website of a school you can tell if the team is a varsity sport or a club sport- the club sport wouldn't be listed with the other varsity sports. Skidmore is my alma mater, so thats the example I'll provide - the team competes in the IHSA but is a varsity sport. If you called it a club team you'd probably offend most of the members, because it is one of the most competitive varsity sports the school has. Most of the top IHSA teams are not considered club teams at their schools, they are considered varsity, and because of that designation, they are funded by the school's athletic program.

                                  This is exactly how it is at Hollins, too. Definitely not a club. Riding is the most competitive sport on campus.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Simple answer? If it's on this list, it's NCAA. http://www.varsityequestrian.com/universities.html

                                    If not, it's IHSA. But a school can consider their particular IHSA team "varsity" if it chooses to provide the team with funds and access to facilities and other benefits they give to student-athletes. Varsity does not necessarily mean participation in NCAA competition, even for other sports.
                                    Cowboy up.

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                                    • #19
                                      If it is on the list it might be NCAA but the team may choose to compete in IHSA because they like the format better or it fits their program better. Or whatever. Several of the NCAA listed schools actually compete IHSA. <20 compete NCAA more than 300 IHSA.

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