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Can we have an adult re-rider support group?

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  • greys, I'm sure you'll find a solution. Maybe it would be best for him elsewhere. Managing practices for a ulcer-prone horse is a bit more challenging, but with the right person in the right place, it can be done. Be picky! I think you definitely are thinking about the boy's well being, which is very commendable. It's too bad the environment where you are isn't more conducive the outcome you're looking for. Maybe he needs a low-key, small-time environment. It sure would be nice if we could just ask the horses, "Hey, what is it that is bothering you?" Hugs with your decision-making.

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    • I need my re-rider's thoughts on something. I don't know if I'm mad or not. I'm a bit disappointed, though. Okay, here goes. I have been trying to get Tay's vet records from the equine vet that was used by the prior owner. I also use this vet hospital. They had to get verbal authorization from previous owner, which is good. I would want them to do that for me, as well. Okay, so finally a week later I got his records. Yesterday. I went through them and discovered that he had colic surgery in 2012. I was a bit shocked to read that and miffed I didn't notice any scar or anything. Though, he is pretty fuzzy right now. Then I was a bit miffed that no one, (trainer, previous owner, previous boarding farm manager whom I bought him from) told me this. Of course, this was a five-minute phone call deal and I know he needed a soft landing, so I did buy him sight unseen. And I do love this horse, so he's in good hands here. But I would have liked to have known this mostly because it alters how I care for him. It's important to me to know that now I'll monitor him more and feed a little differently. Sigh. I just don't know how to feel. I bought him "as is", but I would have liked to have been told. What do you all think? Now, my trainer, I only see a few times a year. And he had to have known, but I don't know that he would ever be outright deceitful, but I know he had to have known about this. He didn't get any sort of commission, he simply loved the horse and wanted him in a good home. But still, I think if it were me, I would have told the new owner. Now, the previous farm manager who is the one who sold the horse to us, she surely should have told us. Maybe that's why she wrote "as is" on contract. Ah, well. Add that with the horse being two years older than I previously thought, just makes me lose a little more faith in the horse world. Okay, sorry, this is mostly a vent. Tay also had a gas colic in 2016, but non-surgical. So I will have to be VERY careful with my boy.

      Have any of you dealt with a colic surgery, and post-surgical care? I am considering the SmartPak Colicare program. I don't want anything to happen to him.

      I was out of town till last night, so I will ride today here in a few and see how he does and then decide on the show for Sunday.

      Thanks for reading.

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      • Greys - So sorry to hear Sandro's ulcers are back. I know you'll make the best decision for him, however hard that is. He's really lucky to have you in his corner. And it seems like you've done a good job of managing his ulcers so far. Do you think it's the traveling/showing having that impact on him?

        PF - I don't have any experience with that, but I think you're justified in being frustrated. Someone should have mentioned it to you, if only so you could tailor his diet and lifestyle appropriately.

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        • Greys- I hate to hear that about Sandro's ulcers. Are some horses just more prone to them?

          PF- I would be ticked as well. To not have anyone from Tay's previous care pass that info along speaks volumes. It would make me wonder what else was left out.

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          • Originally posted by greysfordays View Post

            He doesn’t get any grain currently and always has hay in front of him. I appreciate that 24/7 turnout is the solution, but unfortunately, in the middle of Los Angeles, it’s not an option. This is why I’m starting to think the kinder thing is to find him a home on the east coast where he could be in more horse friendly environment. California horse practices are just tough on these horses.
            Normally I would say send him to me in Australia. Sigh with this drought that is not a good option.
            It is better to ride 5 minutes a day than it is to ride 35 minutes on a Sunday.

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            • We get rain in TN..he can come here!

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              • Okay, all. I reserved stalls for the show! I guess that means I have to go. Lucky, I don't know what classes yet, but for sure the under saddle classes for me. We'll mostly use it as a schooling opportunity! I will email you the class list.

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                • PF In your shoes, I would be pretty ticked off honestly. Especially for your trainer. That should have been disclosed. The age thing, I can forgive, but the colic risks needed to be managed.

                  I would recommend you look at Assure Guard rather than SmartPak. The colicare coverage on SmartPak is only for surgery. Assure offers full colic coverage including but not limited to surgery. My new and former trainers both used Assume Guard.

                  That said, I'm really excited to hear more about your show!!!!!

                  As for Sandro, I think I need to find him a job as a lower level dressage horse. I think as long as he's not showing and trailering too often and can regularly get on some grass, that he would be happy.

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                  • Greys.I am sure he would do very well as a low level dressage pony, so if that is what you decide to do, I think he will be happy. And I think it should be easy to find the right home should you go that route.

                    Thanks for the tip. I am not familiar with Assume Guard, so I will definitely check it out.

                    Heading out to ride Tay in his hunter bridle. Can't very well use the flash/elevator in hunter under saddle and hunter hack.

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                    • PF I just saw your post.

                      No I don't think this is something to get upset about. 2012 was a long time ago so the fact that he has lived so long afterwards he should be fine. Only 2 years off is better than 10 years off.

                      There is a saying for this

                      Don't look a gifthorse in the mouth.

                      Horses to me are only worth their training. So he has bucketloads of training and is worth a lot. The fact that someone thought he was good enough to pay for colic surgery says a lot as well.

                      The temperament you have talked about is priceless and not something you can buy.

                      If the way you manage your horses has not lead to a lot of colics you probably don't have to change much, but colic is also one of those things that can affect any horse.

                      With him just make sure you follow all the rules. Water before feed. Feed little and often. Make any feed changes very slowly. Feed on the ground for saliva to run down with gravity. A lot more forage than grain, wet feeds (not soup)....... and plenty of hugs.

                      Also with every horse enjoy every minute that you have them. The next minute they could be gone and that includes horses that are 2 years younger who have not had colic.
                      It is better to ride 5 minutes a day than it is to ride 35 minutes on a Sunday.

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                      • Greys I do not see how jumping is causing ulcers. Canter can exacerbate ulcers as it makes the acid splash and can land on the ulcer.

                        Dressage horses if in the wrong hands are put under a lot of pressure mentally. They lift their stomachs for collection which is physical. Both can cause ulcers.

                        I personally don't see the reason for ulcers to stop jumping. I think it is something else. I think they would still be there with dressage or trail riding.
                        It is better to ride 5 minutes a day than it is to ride 35 minutes on a Sunday.

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                        • Suzie the ulcers are caused by stress. He is most anxious when jumping and the stress of competition and travel exacerbate this. I think Sandro would also benefit from leaving southern california, where it is really hard to give horses an ideal amount of turnout and grass. He is also attractive and super broke on the flat. I think he could make a lower level dressage rider very happy for these reason. The dressage coach who rode him while I was on maternity leave agrees this is probably the job he would most enjoy.

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                          • Suzie, well, I do still feel upset that no one told me. I feel like I give my horses excellent care. BUT, I am not overly watchful for signs of colic like I will be now. And I'll feed him differently, and manage things differently. I am very happy this boy is trained and I can learn from that training. (Though, I wouldn't call him a gift horse, I did pay for him, ) Hugs, I can do.

                            ****

                            Okay, all, packed up and almost ready to head out to the show. It's going to be cold. Wish me luck.

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                            • PF- First, Good Luck for a smooth and fun outing. We have a couple of horses at our barn that have had colic surgery. The school horse had a bowel resection over 15 years ago and has had no real complications since. I have clipped him and never noticed a scar, both by feel and sight. So no surprise you didn't notice anything on your boy.

                              I would be a bit miffed as well not to have been told, not a deal breaker for me, but as you said just careful management - that I am sure you already practice. Have tons of fun with Tay

                              Greys- I am sorry the scope showed that Sandro's ulcers flared up again. I am almost finished with a full course of Nexium with Milo. I started it because I noticed him starting to be un characteristically spooky under saddle, and then we started on the rounds of Equiouxx and antibiotics with his injury. He is out both day and night weather permitting, but right now the grass has diminished and the BO is being very skimpy about haying the pastures. We went through a period were they were circling the gate at bringing in time like hungry sharks after the lone seal. I would time my barn trips to bring him in early, bring him his soaked alfalfa pellets, and add extra hay as needed. To tell the truth I have been looking for a plan B, but have not found a better option yet. He probably wants to go live with my daughter and hang out with her mare and pony gelding - that s not going to happen, he will have to content himself with occasional visits. Have to chuckle about you considering a change of career for Sandro, dressage would be like the 7th level of hell for Milo. "I know how to do all that stuff, I did it once before, Can we go in the woods to ride, jump, go fast now??" And mom says "ok, but not time to go fast now. " Milo - sigh .. "OK"

                              Its a juggling act and we do the best we can for them. I know you are doing that for Sandro now and in the future.

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                              • PF you will know a horse with colic when you see it. You won't have to worry about looking for signs. You will know. The usual things for a sick horse. Not eating, lying down. lying down and rolling and the worst is walking through trees, sheds, buildings whatever. As they are trying to get rid of the pain in the stomach. There is no mistaking it, the first thing that happens is your heart drops and you feel terrible.

                                I never knew you could lose a horse so fast. I had gone through a week of Pepper being sick. He had an infection that the vet said he was just standing in the wrong spot and breathed it in when it went past. As he did not feel well he stopped eating. Horses can not do that. I was up with him all day and night. I went and bought bute to get him to eat. I hand fed him. He just got through that and Vinnie stopped eating. I had the vet out immediately and he tried giving her fluids etc, he came back several times throughout the day. She was standing when we went to bed and was dead the next morning. It was such a shock. It was the quickness which was such a shock. I cried for 3 days and after that whenever I got in the car to drive I cried. He said that the most probable thing was that she had not had a drink and had dried out. Just because there is water in the trough does not mean that they have drunk.

                                Now I enjoy every minute with them as I know it could be the last.
                                It is better to ride 5 minutes a day than it is to ride 35 minutes on a Sunday.

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                                • Suzie, yes, I definitely know a horse in colic. So that's not the issue. My thing is just now doing all I can to help prevent future episodes. And I will be more cautious with his care. There are preventative measures I can take to help, which I will. I wouldn't do that if I didn't know he had colic surgery previously. That's all I'm saying.

                                  *****

                                  Show was interesting. We took both Tay and Jazz. Jazz just to school and Tay for whatever I decided at the moment. I rode Saturday in the indoor. He was a bit looky and not relaxed, but he was not being naughty. All in all he was fine. Sunday I rode outdoors and he schooled really well. I was happy with how much better he was. I entered a flat class. There were quite a few horses and it was back in the indoor. Again, he was very looky, and there were a lot of people standing at the end of the ring, more to look at. When they asked us to canter, he remembered he was OTTB and was off to the races, haha. Needless to say, I knew I wasn’t placing, so I just circled and brought him to a walk, with some effort. Haha. Went back to the outdoor to be sure he schooled well before being done for the day, rode him outside and he was fine. So maybe hunter-under-saddle classes are not going to be his forte! Maybe dressage. And of course at some point I’ll do more jumping, as that’s solo. And I’ll pick some outdoor venues first. But all in all, he was good. He loaded well, walked around the grounds when we first got there quietly. Jazz, too, trailered fairly well. It took maybe three tries to load, then he was good. He was more spooky at everything new. DH just walked him around everywhere on Saturday night. Even in the coliseum. He didn’t’ want to go in that ring at all. Ha. We ended up following a little quarter horse in and he was better. But he stopped to look at everything. So it was a good experience for him. DH rode him yesterday, while I was tacking Tay up, and he said he was a challenge (outdoor ring.) and he wanted to bolt out the gate, etc. That’s his MO, escaping out the gate when he’s overwhelmed. He did that here, too, when we first got him. But Jerry stuck it out and schooled him. So all in all, successful, in an odd way. This was his first ride off property, so you have to start somewhere. And this was the good first place to try. It was local, the whole weekend cost $105 including the two stalls and a trailer hook-up. Always easier to look like an idiot if you're not paying a bunch of money to do it.

                                  Hope you all had a good weekend.



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                                  • PF- I'm so bummed I had to work, I would have loved to have been there. I'm glad it was a positive experience for both boys. I wonder if the size of Miller got to Tay? Was your class in the big arena or that covered one? The Livestock Arena is a bit smaller and not quite as enclosed- I'm starting to prefer it for those reasons. How far removed is Tay from racing? I always wonder if some of their background always stays with them. I know very little of OTTB and am enjoying hearing about your and TC's experiences.

                                    On a side note- this may have been answered before- what is it about ulcers that can make a horse spooky? Pain response, I get, but not the spook response.

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                                    • Horses don't know that it is ulcers causing the pain. When they canter the acid splashes on the ulcer. All the horse knows is when they are being ridden they are in pain.

                                      Stand under a tree fine. Grazing fine. Being groomed and tacked fine. Get on and ask for things and pain.

                                      They cannot speak English. They do not whine like a puppy or whimper like a kitten. They suffer pain in silence.

                                      Horses do not usually play up. When they are trained with kindness they try their hearts out for you. It is not a naughty horse that spooks, rears, spins and bolts. It is a horse that doesn't understand the pressure being put on them like a beginner trying to put a horse that does not understand on the bit or a horse that is in pain that we cannot see like with ulcers.

                                      It is the horses way of communicating with you.

                                      Eccessive spooking also happens with a happy fresh horse. Not so happy for the rider!
                                      It is better to ride 5 minutes a day than it is to ride 35 minutes on a Sunday.

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                                      • Picking up my new trailer today. Yay! (Really just bumping our thread. )

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                                        • PF- that's so exciting! Did you get any pics of Tay or Jazzy at the show?

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