• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Interesting Perspective on Paul Valliere

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Interesting Perspective on Paul Valliere

    As the pot stirs....
    A Hard Lesson is Good to Find

  • #2
    She appears to be more judgmental toward riders who she believes don't work hard enough to ride than she is about people who orchestrate the killing of horses to make money.

    Interesting.

    Comment


    • #3
      Well, I am guessing this will turn into quite the popcorn worthy thread - as they usually do when PV's involved.

      The blog is about a year old - has it been discussed on COTH already?

      For what it's worth, here are my $0.02: the comments on the blog are the most interesting part of the read to me. I find it absolutely amazing how many people are willing to allow this individual to remain a part of the equestrain community. I don't care how talented he is, or that he served his plea bargained sentence, in my opinion his actions should leave every equestrian too disgusted to be associated with him.
      Riding a horse is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down like a game of solitaire. It is a grand passion.... ~ Emerson

      Comment


      • #4
        No one ever said Paul wasn't a talented trainer/instructor.

        This is the part of the blog I find interesting, and more than a little sad:

        “Did you notice he said, ‘stuff that happened to me’?” asked Frankie and mine’s chariot driver.

        It was hard not to notice—though unreasonable on which to draw conclusions. At worst, the line foretold his method of internalizing his predicament. With the FBI crashing in on him, dangling his freedom like a Parelli carrot, and getting suited up for some first-class wiretapping espionage, the moments may have felt like they were coming at him. And he was simply playing defense.
        Despite his vocal remorse, it would be hard not to speculate this poster-child for bad-trainers only might be so…because he got caught. Hardly few people admit to crimes for which they are not suspected. But despite his role in one of the worst scandals in the history of the horse world, Paul’s decent into moral infamy is largely…unearned.
        and

        Paul was never indicted on animal cruelty charges—it was insurance fraud. Relatively speaking, a lightning bolt to the heart ain’t such a bad way to go.
        Fascinating how someone can apparently simultaneously believe that PV was not involved in any animal cruelty (because, I guess, "a lightning bolt to the heart ain't such a bad way to go"...) AND not "get" that the insurance fraud - which they apparently consider some sort of victimless white collar crime - WAS THE KILLING OF A HORSE FOR THE INSURANCE PROCEEDS.

        I guess everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but for me... I'd say that killing a horse for money earns you plenty of infamy in a big way. Whether you teach a great lesson or not.
        **********
        We move pretty fast for some rabid garden snails.
        -PaulaEdwina

        Comment


        • #5
          Very interesting perspective. I read it to mean that she didn't want to continue riding with Paul because she was uncomfortable. From her perspective, the reason Paul still has so many clients is because his clients aren't the type of people who...hmmm...put the horse first, I guess. They are more into the lifestyle and they might come from backgrounds where a little insurance fraud isn't such a bad thing. She didn't want to be around people like that, perhaps because the atmosphere took away from her experience. I don't mind people that are privileged. I could care less whether another person tacks up their own horse or knows what laminitis is. However, I don't think I could stomach being around someone like Paul, or his faithful clientele.

          Comment


          • #6
            Funny, but I could not even imagine telling my son or daughter about PV actions in killing horses-insurance fraud is a bigger offense-and not having them angry and in tears. And then saying "Come say Hi to your new trainer".

            What a strange world some people live in...

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by busylady View Post
              Very interesting perspective. I read it to mean that she didn't want to continue riding with Paul because she was uncomfortable. From her perspective, the reason Paul still has so many clients is because his clients aren't the type of people who...hmmm...put the horse first, I guess. They are more into the lifestyle and they might come from backgrounds where a little insurance fraud isn't such a bad thing. She didn't want to be around people like that, perhaps because the atmosphere took away from her experience. I don't mind people that are privileged. I could care less whether another person tacks up their own horse or knows what laminitis is. However, I don't think I could stomach being around someone like Paul, or his faithful clientele.
              I just thought it odd that she was turned off by the "other world" of riders (unlimited money etc) that came to his farm and not by Paul and what he was convicted for.

              His talent as a trainer was never a question; his ethics on the other hand were and still would be for me.

              There are plenty of both good and great trainers out there that never reached the bottom in the way he did; murdering horses for insurance money...

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by AmmyByNature View Post
                She appears to be more judgmental toward riders who she believes don't work hard enough to ride than she is about people who orchestrate the killing of horses to make money.

                Interesting.
                Also, in her odd little world, slaughtering cattle for beef in a processing facility is the same as killing horses for the sole purpose of committing insurance fraud. Because a completely legal, regulated process is EXACTLY THE SAME as hiring some guy to wire the horse to the wall socket and then lying to the insurance company to get a payout. Because the only reason people might question his ethics is "killing horsies bad."

                He wasn't selling horses for slaughter (something that people disagree about but which isn't illegal.) He was committing a major felony. It's not even about whether or not it was a painless way to do it, it was a serious crime. I think there are STILL people in prison related to the whole horse-killing scheme. I basically quit reading. I really just wouldn't want to risk being involved with any of his crowd and no matter how good a teacher he might or might not be, it's not worth it.
                Author Page
                Like Omens In the Night on Facebook
                Steampunk Sweethearts

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by danceronice View Post
                  Also, in her odd little world, slaughtering cattle for beef in a processing facility is the same as killing horses for the sole purpose of committing insurance fraud. Because a completely legal, regulated process is EXACTLY THE SAME as hiring some guy to wire the horse to the wall socket and then lying to the insurance company to get a payout. Because the only reason people might question his ethics is "killing horsies bad."

                  He wasn't selling horses for slaughter (something that people disagree about but which isn't illegal.) He was committing a major felony. It's not even about whether or not it was a painless way to do it, it was a serious crime. I think there are STILL people in prison related to the whole horse-killing scheme. I basically quit reading. I really just wouldn't want to risk being involved with any of his crowd and no matter how good a teacher he might or might not be, it's not worth it.

                  I also thought that it was very strange how she compared electrocuting show horses for insurance fraud to the legal butchering of cattle. That confused the heck out of me. Mmm, sorry, no, not similar at all.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    It's been my experience that most criminals see themselves as the victim, in one form or another. So PV's comments are not surprising at all.

                    It's an odd commentary. But one that's not hard to understand. Some people need to justify to themselves why they do the wrong thing. And, while you're at it, take a swipe at rich people.
                    Surgeon General warns: "drinking every time Trump lies during the debate could result in acute alcohol poisoning."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I had to read this twice to figure out why she didn't continue to ride with PV. It wasn't the crime he committed, it was the rich kids.

                      I submit the populist anger is misdirected at his former deeds. It might rather be spent aimed at said company he keeps.
                      Okay, so she hates rich people but training with someone who was convicted of insurance fraud for electrocuting horses is A-OK

                      I'm sorry, there are plenty of very good trainers/instructors (whatever distinction you make) who can help you and your horse progress who don't have that history. It isn't hard to find out the facts. Plenty of us who were around then are still around.

                      As RI Rider said in the comments:

                      Just because Paul only was charged with insurance fraud doesn’t mean that’s all he did.
                      Equine Ink - My soapbox for equestrian writings & reviews.
                      EquestrianHow2 - Operating instructions for your horse.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Its funny to me that in Hollywood and national televised sports you would not have to look far to find drug addicts , bigots, adulters, rapists , abusers of women and kids and even suspected murderers . We pay them tremendous amounts of money for their "talent". When they fall from the graces we look upon them with pitty and cheer when they find their way back to redemption no matter their indescretions.

                        Then something like this that happened 25 years ago continues to creep back into mainstream and ignite tremendous amounts of anger and rage from the same group of people. You don't have to like or dislike you don't have to forgive , you don't even have to forget. Just move on already. I mean literally how many more times can you keep beating the same dead horse.
                        "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by TarheelJD View Post
                          Well, I am guessing this will turn into quite the popcorn worthy thread - as they usually do when PV's involved.

                          The blog is about a year old - has it been discussed on COTH already?

                          For what it's worth, here are my $0.02: the comments on the blog are the most interesting part of the read to me. I find it absolutely amazing how many people are willing to allow this individual to remain a part of the equestrain community. I don't care how talented he is, or that he served his plea bargained sentence, in my opinion his actions should leave every equestrian too disgusted to be associated with him.
                          I agree. And his comment about "something that happened to him" and "a mistake that he made", shows he STILL doesn't accept what a heinous thing he did. And the only reason it was for insurance fraud as opposed to animal cruelty, is because the punishment was greater for it. It's not like he wasn't convicted of cruelty, because he was found innocent, or he wasn't cruel.

                          And a person who has the mindset that when they need money, will kill a horse in a cruel manner and commit fraud is not the kind of person I would want to associate with. You will never convince me that he would always put the good of the horse first, over money, awards, etc.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Not me, hackin. I have never understood the odd moral gymnastics that allow people to feel that talent or skill cancels out a vicious act. In my world, PV and Michael Vick would be earning their "redemption" by wasting their skills and potential working at Walmart or McDonald's. That happens to lots of talented, skilled people who just had bad luck - blew out a knee in college, took an unlucky fall early in their career and ended up paralyzed. It's happened to a lot of people who got shitcanned in the recession. Why not to someone who deserves to lose their chosen field?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              It's a barn AISLE.

                              Glad to be able to focus on a mis-spelling, gives me a break from the author's trite relativism.

                              Because being around rich people is so very very awful and is equivalent to (or worse!) electrocuting horses and committing felonies.

                              Yawn.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by vacation1 View Post
                                Not me, hackin. I have never understood the odd moral gymnastics that allow people to feel that talent or skill cancels out a vicious act. In my world, PV and Michael Vick would be earning their "redemption" by wasting their skills and potential working at Walmart or McDonald's. That happens to lots of talented, skilled people who just had bad luck - blew out a knee in college, took an unlucky fall early in their career and ended up paralyzed. It's happened to a lot of people who got shitcanned in the recession. Why not to someone who deserves to lose their chosen field?
                                Me neither. (I wouldn't have the slightest problem if they'd arrested Roman Polanski's @$$ the first chance they got, either. Don't care it was thirty years ago or that he has a genuine reason to be rather screwed up---I'd be messed up too if my spouse was a victim of the Manson killings. But you do the crime, you do the time.) Drug addicts and alcoholics, well, assuming that no one died as a result of their behavior and they stay clean, that's one thing. Rape, molesting a kid, animal abuse, murder, yes, they don't deserve to be "celebrities" any more than PV deserves to be working in horses.

                                However, for the blogger, class envy and hating those eeeeevil rich people is clearly much more important than worrying about training with someone who had zero problem having horses killed for the insurance. (Because electrocution doesn't hurt. Funny, thought that the fact electrocution is NOT a nice way to go is the reason it's pretty much gone as a means of capital punishment now.)
                                Author Page
                                Like Omens In the Night on Facebook
                                Steampunk Sweethearts

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by hackinaround View Post
                                  I mean literally how many more times can you keep beating the same dead horse.
                                  Well, the horse is dead, that's for sure.
                                  Surgeon General warns: "drinking every time Trump lies during the debate could result in acute alcohol poisoning."

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Go Fish View Post
                                    Well, the horse is dead, that's for sure.
                                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X50WO4m3k1E
                                    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I applaud all of you who slogged through the entire column; I couldn't get past the first three paragraphs. Nothing offensive, just boring.
                                      ...somewhere between the talent and the potato....

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by TarheelJD View Post
                                        I find it absolutely amazing how many people are willing to allow this individual to remain a part of the equestrain community. I don't care how talented he is, or that he served his plea bargained sentence, in my opinion his actions should leave every equestrian too disgusted to be associated with him.
                                        As do I... I wouldn't set foot on his property ... I also would never ride with him even if someone wanted to pay me. I don't care how talented he is and I don't try to take that away from him. I'm sure he's talented, but he's a scum bag too...

                                        Originally posted by hackinaround View Post
                                        You don't have to like or dislike you don't have to forgive , you don't even have to forget. Just move on already. I mean literally how many more times can you keep beating the same dead horse.
                                        You can move on and put your head in the sand about the truth like many others in the industry.

                                        I choose to keep my eyes open...


                                        Originally posted by jetsmom View Post
                                        I agree. And his comment about "something that happened to him" and "a mistake that he made", shows he STILL doesn't accept what a heinous thing he did. And the only reason it was for insurance fraud as opposed to animal cruelty, is because the punishment was greater for it. It's not like he wasn't convicted of cruelty, because he was found innocent, or he wasn't cruel.

                                        And a person who has the mindset that when they need money, will kill a horse in a cruel manner and commit fraud is not the kind of person I would want to associate with. You will never convince me that he would always put the good of the horse first, over money, awards, etc.
                                        Of course he was a victim... just a little "something that happened to him" ...
                                        Platinum Equestrian - Florida, USA

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X