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politics in the HJ world

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  • politics in the HJ world

    So frustrated with the politics in horse showing. I just came from an "AA" rated show where riders and horses that did not have BNT's didn't even get looked at. For example, one horse in a class that was scored out loud had a stop at the first jump. The judge was not even paying attention to this person so much so that they received a score in the 60's. This judge didn't even look up long enough to notice the stop! This is an extreme example of many curious scores given. Horse showing in this economy is a very expensive undertaking and to not even be looked at is terrible. It just makes it feel like an incredible waste of time, effort and money if you aren't one of the "ccol kids".

  • #2
    Originally posted by Go fast and win View Post
    So frustrated with the politics in horse showing. I just came from an "AA" rated show where riders and horses that did not have BNT's didn't even get looked at. For example, one horse in a class that was scored out loud had a stop at the first jump. The judge was not even paying attention to this person so much so that they received a score in the 60's. This judge didn't even look up long enough to notice the stop! This is an extreme example of many curious scores given. Horse showing in this economy is a very expensive undertaking and to not even be looked at is terrible. It just makes it feel like an incredible waste of time, effort and money if you aren't one of the "ccol kids".
    This is an interesting way to introduce yourself to this board. By your screen name I assume that you do the jumpers?

    Judges make mistakes. It happens.

    Politics also happen (in horses just like in life), but to about 1/100th of the degree that people accuse it of. It's easy to blame things on politics. It's hard to admit that someone else's horse is so much nicer than yours that they can make a mistake and you can have a perfect round and they might still beat you.

    But that happens in the hunters and it can be hard to stomach.

    If it bothers you so much I would be glad that you do the jumpers and try to ignore whatever is happening over on the other side of the fence.
    Last edited by ExJumper; Jul. 28, 2011, 11:03 AM.
    Originally posted by tidy rabbit
    Oh, well, clearly you're not thoroughly indoctrinated to COTH yet, because finger pointing and drawing conclusions are the cornerstones of this great online community.

    Comment


    • #3
      Politics affects everything in life. Sure it's unfair. Bit it is what it is. Whether you are showing in AQHA, TWH, or hunters, some judges play the political card. Expect it and don't spend time complaining about it because it is not going away. After all, the goal "should" be a good ride for you and your horse, not a ribbon, right?
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      • #4
        Politics are everywhere in life. Some places more then others. It IS unfair. But so is life. The sooner you either get used to it or learn to play the game - the more happy you will be.

        If it bothers you that much - switch disciplines or quit riding. Don't go around complaining about it and being all upset. You will become a miserable person

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        • #5
          There are things that could be done to help ensure that hunter judges are doing their job properly. One would be to require that show provide and judges use a scribe (like dressage) at A and AA rated shows.

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          • #6
            Yes Politics does happen in the Hunter and Eq rings, Yes subjective judging happens in the Hunter and Eq Rings.. In my mind this is why anyone who is showing at the AAA level past the age of 14 who 1) isn't with a BNT or 2) doesn't have oodles of money should be riding jumpers. Reason 1)Judging is based on faults and time, 2) it's run what you brung, 3), you can make money back, 4) It will make you a better rider, 5) you will have to have a Real trainer who can teach you how to ride not how to pose and dress, therefore you will actually be learninmg to ride and so will get your moneys worth. 5) you will ride less classes ( downside you have all those STUPID nomination fees)

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            • #7
              The nice thing about showing hunters at AA shows is that no one forces you to do such. You can show local, do jumpers, event, dressage.... many things outside of showing hunters at AA shows.

              While I'm not naive enough to believe politics never occur, if it was so rampant and prevelant, I doubt shows and classes would fill like they do.

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              • #8
                Is anyone ever happy if they don't win? I have seen it all, BNT's throwing tantrums and fits over the courses and jumps that caused problems for their "sure winners", to riders who really are not invested in showing hunters, but instead of their missed lead changes, adds down the lines and not great jumps, blame the judges and the pinning of favorites with the best clothes and on their dreaded "warmblood robots."

                Honestly it is subjective always will be, judges prefer different styles and horses and some horses jump better than others....but on the whole judges do pin what is in front of them that day and while it can seem frustrating and there are days people are WTH over the choices I think the majority of judges I know are honest.
                "All life is precious"
                Sophie Scholl

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                • #9
                  Whine, cry, complain.

                  This is supposed to be fun.

                  I've always found that I place about where I'm supposed to be placing, BNT or not.

                  1) isn't with a BNT or 2) doesn't have oodles of money should be riding jumpers. Reason 1)Judging is based on faults and time, 2) it's run what you brung, 3), you can make money back, 4) It will make you a better rider, 5) you will have to have a Real trainer who can teach you how to ride not how to pose and dress, therefore you will actually be learninmg to ride and so will get your moneys worth. 5) you will ride less classes ( downside you have all those STUPID nomination fees)
                  And as someone who shows in both hunters and jumpers, this is just being ridiculous. If you have a good-jumping horse, why not show it in the hunters? It's a different challenge, not only "posing."

                  FWIW, my trainer hasn't told me how to dress since I was 13 years old.
                  ---
                  They're small hearts.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Trixie View Post
                    Whine, cry, complain.

                    FWIW, my trainer hasn't told me how to dress since I was 13 years old.
                    I agree of course barns Expect their riders to be turned out nicely...but don't all disciplines expect that? and then like you said most of us have figured that out at an early age or just through paying attention....I have never been told since showing ponies what to wear either!
                    "All life is precious"
                    Sophie Scholl

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                    • #11
                      I think it is ridiculous the number of rants over the years about judges and BNTs. For crying out loud, do you really think that the judges know by heart who every rider trains with?

                      Last I noticed, the horse and rider, maybe the owner get announced upon entering the ring, not the trainer. Also, there are generally a bunch of "BNT's" near the ring at any given time. How is the judge going to know which one goes to which rider? Sure, in a few cases but not across the board like so many whiners wish to believe.

                      As Trixie pointed out so famously several months ago, "there were a bunch of BNT's at the in gate when I was in the ring and it didn't matter, I chipped, got a long spot and did it all on my own"

                      Put in a good round or learn to recognize your mistakes and rectify them instead of crying waaaa!
                      "If you would have only one day to live, you should spend at least half of it in the saddle."

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                      • #12
                        As Trixie pointed out so famously several months ago, "there were a bunch of BNT's at the in gate when I was in the ring and it didn't matter, I chipped, got a long spot and did it all on my own"
                        I know. It was CRAZY. There were multiple BNT's standing RIGHT THERE and I STILL LOST!

                        HOW COULD IT BE?!?!?!?!?

                        (o ya... I sucked)
                        ---
                        They're small hearts.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by moonriverfarm View Post
                          Politics affects everything in life. Sure it's unfair. Bit it is what it is. Whether you are showing in AQHA, TWH, or hunters, some judges play the political card. Expect it and don't spend time complaining about it because it is not going away. After all, the goal "should" be a good ride for you and your horse, not a ribbon, right?
                          Agreed. I went to a fun local show this weekend with Princess (who has many many regional and national level awards) had an awesome ride and placed behind a horse that tried to kick the judge and strike at his handler during the conformation part of the class. Such is life. If you don't like the way that judge judges, don't attend shows where he or she is judging.
                          I still met some great friends saw some great horses and had lots of fun even though it was sweltering.
                          Michael: Seems the people who burned me want me for a job.
                          Sam: A job? Does it pay?
                          Michael: Nah, it's more of a "we'll kill you if you don't do it" type of thing.
                          Sam: Oh. I've never liked those.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Trixie View Post
                            I know. It was CRAZY. There were multiple BNT's standing RIGHT THERE and I STILL LOST!

                            HOW COULD IT BE?!?!?!?!?

                            (o ya... I sucked)
                            lololol

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Soooo...do we even know what this class was? Hunters or Eq???? Or does OP know what it was????

                              And, please...what does a judge scoring the horse with a stop a 60 have to do with BNTs and politics???

                              Who cares if it was a 60 or a 45 when they both mean the round sucked?
                              When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                              The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Heck...yeah, often you're left scratching your head on the placings, but I'll admit, there has been a time or two where I was scratching my head wondering why I WON a class. Happens both ways, so I figure it evens itself out! I really try not to pay close attention to the other riders in my class. So I go in blind and just do the best I can do.
                                “Be yourself; everyone else is already taken.”
                                ¯ Oscar Wilde

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by MIKES MCS View Post
                                  5) you will have to have a Real trainer who can teach you how to ride not how to pose and dress, therefore you will actually be learninmg to ride and so will get your moneys worth.
                                  HEY NOW. I want to see you lay down a perfect hunter trip at an A or AA. Just because I don't like to see how fast I can go doesn't mean I don't know how to ride. Hunters and eq is much more challenging than many people think.
                                  Let's not be so rude.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Yep!

                                    The judges watch the in-gate, NOT the rider in the ring, to determine who the rider's trainer is. When rider finishes his/her trip, trainer will clap. Voila! Judge knows who trainer is. If trainer is a BNT, judge marks it on his/her sheet. THEN, judge will determine the winner based on the loudest clapping/whooping from BNT/BNT's barn. Because we all know that the judge absolutely cannot decide who his/her favorite BNT is.

                                    Judging has absolutely nothing to do with how the horse/rider combination go around.
                                    Honey badger don't give a sh!t.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Yeah, and maybe that 60 was the lowest.......maybe everybody else got 80 and over and this judge was just a generous scorer!!! All we have is your rant and nothing else? Don't like the way hunters are judged? then it's simple...don't do 'em!! Me? I'm just happy to get around!!

                                      Personnaly, I've found it really doesn't matter who the trainers are standing by the gate (there's generally a load of them anyway)! A good or brilliant round is a good or brilliant round no matter who is judging. Yeah, some judges reward those not so brilliant rounds depending on their personal preferences and if your style of horse isn't their fav, then just don't show under them anymore, or even better....just go out and ride for your own self-improvement!
                                      Go Ahead: This is a dare, not permission. Don't Do It!

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Right, it is so simple, all you have to do in Jumpers is go fast and you will win every time. Easy to see why Jumper riders are so superior.

                                        Jeesh...all this over the fact a sucky 60 was called instead of a suckier 45 when it would take at least an 82 to pin.

                                        But it's more fun to just bash everybody.
                                        When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                                        The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

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