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SORRY! Another Tb conformation quest - future show hunter

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  • SORRY! Another Tb conformation quest - future show hunter

    Hey - what do you guys think of this 2 yr old? Born a bit late, backed at this point. I LOVE his neck and topline and hip but his hind legs are a little wonky and his front left looks a little over at the knee. Plus he toes out a little. Does the LF look a little clubby?

    He just is so pretty and looks so kind - do you think he is worth seeing? Don't want to get involved w/ one that won't hold up or be able to do what I want to do - 3' hunters in a competative zone. He's not gelded.

    http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL977.../397561876.jpg

  • #2
    Good lord he's a dead ringer for Secretariat....
    Fils Du Reverdy (Revy)- 1993 Selle Francais Gelding
    My equine soulmate
    Mischief Managed (Tully)- JC Priceless Jewel 2002 TB Gelding

    Comment


    • #3
      Can't answer your questions witrh those photos, but he has a beautiful look to him.
      http://community.webshots.com/user/summitspringsfarm

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by dani0303 View Post
        Good lord he's a dead ringer for Secretariat....
        Almost too much so. Same 3 whites, down to the little dip of chestnut at the front of the right fore, and the same star with a thin stripe. Have you actually seen this horse or is someone pulling your leg?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by tikidoc View Post
          Almost too much so. Same 3 whites, down to the little dip of chestnut at the front of the right fore, and the same star with a thin stripe. Have you actually seen this horse or is someone pulling your leg?
          I'm about 99% sure that's him. Either someone is pulling the OP's leg or the OP is trying to pull our leg.
          Fils Du Reverdy (Revy)- 1993 Selle Francais Gelding
          My equine soulmate
          Mischief Managed (Tully)- JC Priceless Jewel 2002 TB Gelding

          Comment


          • #6
            Gorgeous horse but I agree with the above comments with respect to Secretariat. I googled pictures of him (Secretariat) and the markings are the same.

            Of course, I always thought Secretariat would make a fabulous hunter. Loved his build.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by dani0303 View Post
              I'm about 99% sure that's him. Either someone is pulling the OP's leg or the OP is trying to pull our leg.
              Agreed. Those markings are just too close. And the photo looks old.

              Look at the pics below, the markings are a perfect match.

              http://www.nndb.com/people/212/000023143/

              http://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/2...f-derbies.html

              Comment


              • #8
                I'd take a chance on that one.Might make a really nice timber horse....

                http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...%3Divns&itbs=1
                madeline
                * What you release is what you teach * Don't be distracted by unwanted behavior* Whoever waits the longest is the teacher. Van Hargis

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                • #9
                  I'm going to go with a lot of other people and say yeah... that's Secretariat.
                  You know, if you took this jello, put it in a mold and froze it, you could be like look....an emerald. Dude, I'd kick some guys ass he ever tried to give me a jello ring.

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Madeline View Post
                    I'd take a chance on that one.Might make a really nice timber horse....

                    http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...%3Divns&itbs=1
                    Lol, yeah he probably would have.

                    Sorry, it's just that I am so tired of seeing bad pictures of horses posted - especially ottb's - and being critiqued as not possibly having any performance potential for any number of reasons ranging from the barely defensible to the ridiculous.

                    There are very few conformational flaws that you can actually see from a photo or two that could be significant enough for anyone to decide a horse is unfit for a potential job. Declaring otherwise is just sillyness. So many upper level horse in every discipline are not ideally conformed and the truth is that even a horse with terrific conformation can be made to look terrible if not well stood up.

                    Everyone has a type that they like and for sure you can decide that on a photo or two. But declaring that a horse is tragically crooked legged or has an abscess or has foundered from looking at one photo is just plain silly.

                    Probably I shouldn't have chosen the most famous thoroughbred of our time as the example because he is a total hottie in any photo. There are other examples of top class racehorses who look funky in those types of photos! But even look at his feet and legs in those photos - if that was a skinnier, rougher coated, plain bay CANTER horse, he'd be declared a cripple incapable of trail riding.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Harold View Post
                      Lol, yeah he probably would have.

                      Sorry, it's just that I am so tired of seeing bad pictures of horses posted - especially ottb's - and being critiqued as not possibly having any performance potential for any number of reasons ranging from the barely defensible to the ridiculous.

                      There are very few conformational flaws that you can actually see from a photo or two that could be significant enough for anyone to decide a horse is unfit for a potential job. Declaring otherwise is just sillyness. So many upper level horse in every discipline are not ideally conformed and the truth is that even a horse with terrific conformation can be made to look terrible if not well stood up.

                      Everyone has a type that they like and for sure you can decide that on a photo or two. But declaring that a horse is tragically crooked legged or has an abscess or has foundered from looking at one photo is just plain silly.

                      Probably I shouldn't have chosen the most famous thoroughbred of our time as the example because he is a total hottie in any photo. There are other examples of top class racehorses who look funky in those types of photos! But even look at his feet and legs in those photos - if that was a skinnier, rougher coated, plain bay CANTER horse, he'd be declared a cripple incapable of trail riding.
                      I think that the reason you get a lot of "bad pictures of horses posted - especially ottb's - and being critiqued as not possibly having any performance potential for any number of reasons" is that most confo pics posted on here are TBs. Someone is going to find a fault with *any* confo pic posted...tb, wb, a purple flying pony. TBs are posted most often, so they are going to get the most criticism.

                      Try it. Go start another thread with a confo pic of a random wb 3 year old, and I guarantee its going to get picked apart as much as any other horse. Its not "breedism" its just the fact that canter means that more tbs are posted on here.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Good one, Harold, and you're right... it's impossible to truly critique a horse or decide on his potential from a photo. But there's lots to be learned from looking at photos good and bad, and reading critiques and agreements/rebuttals. Lot of peeps, even here on the mightly COTH, are still on the conformation learning curve. So bring on the CANTER horses and the warmbloods and the purple flying ponies.
                        Patience pays.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I see what you did there.
                          The Little Red Mare: French Curve

                          and my non-horse blog: oh, rebecca!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I think about of people ask about ottb alot because they are reasonably priced and good horses. I want to get a conformation book, can anyone recommend a good one?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              You rock, Harold... but you already knew that.

                              Yeah, Harold totally explained my sense of frustration when it comes to pics of OTTBs. And Rel, I agree with you, if WBs were regularly posted in the condition a lot of track horses are, it would be the same story. But an old adage of showing horses for conformation is "fat hides faults" and there's no shortage of pics of WBs lacking visible signs of ribs and hips bones. But I think the number of relatively clueless people or self proclaimed experts on All Things Hunter Jumper forum exceed the number of people who might actually be helpful.

                              Probably everyone should read Allie Conrad's most recent blog on the Chronicle to get an idea how much real (versus imagined) experience and work it takes to see what a gangly, bony, not particularly attractive 3 year old can become. But I can say I've seen little evidence of that experience in a lot of the posts on the BB. Honestly if you can look at a picture and make grand 5 paragraph proclamations about the likelihood of X performance capability, you are probably the exact opposite of the type of person who can really see such a horse and the possibility of potential.

                              There are only a few truths I abide by when looking at a photo/video of a horse freshly off the track:

                              1. All pictures lie. They lie a lot. Whether they lie to make a horse look worse (in your eyes) than he really is (in your eyes) or to make him better than he is (in your eyes) can only be resolved when you lay your eyes on him IRL.

                              2. All young horses coming off the track are growing hard and working hard and don't get to carry an ounce of extra fat. This puts them in a tenuous caloric balance that does not favor them, especially when they hit that let down stage. Fat hides faults, but maybe 5% of the people I know can actually SEE the horse from the basic structure and look past a rough coat/poor photo and those 5% are smart enough to know about 1, above. I've found that those 5% rarely bother posting on these threads because they cannot stomach them any more.

                              3. The way a horse trots when on the track or freshly off the track does not bear any resemblance to how he will trot 12 months later with above average training.
                              Your crazy is showing. You might want to tuck that back in.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by jay0087 View Post
                                I think about of people ask about ottb alot because they are reasonably priced and good horses. I want to get a conformation book, can anyone recommend a good one?
                                Somebody help me out here...there was a gal who put together an excellent book on conformation and illustrated it with photos where she put white tape on the horse outlining the actual skeletal structure. It easily revealed the angles and how they work together and can teach how to look past weight and coat condition or even bad pictures to see if the horse will structurally work for what you want it to do. Just cannot remember the authors name or title of that book, she gives or gave clinics using the same method awhile back.

                                No horse is perfect. I can pick any of my own apart in a heartbeat-that helps me adjust their program and understand their limitations. The art is in seeing what you can work with for your desired purpose and what you probably cannot or what might limit. The less time you have to make a decision, the better at it you need to be. Or bring somebody who is.

                                And it is an art and somewhat subjective.
                                When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                                The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by DMK View Post
                                  Yeah, Harold totally explained my sense of frustration when it comes to pics of OTTBs.
                                  I have shared this sense of frustration and have also seen nice horses deserving of new careers picked to shreds for no good reason, but at the same time this thread illustrates why this BB can be such a great resource. Even with such poor quality pictures someone had identified the horse within minutes and those who didn't know who he was agreed that he was a beautiful animal and were able to see beyond the wonky way he's standing. But then again, I guess he is a pretty famous horse.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    LOL, I think you had to be really out of it not to know who he was on a quick glance!
                                    Your crazy is showing. You might want to tuck that back in.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      3. The way a horse trots when on the track or freshly off the track does not bear any resemblance to how he will trot 12 months later with above average training.
                                      Yup, the shoeing makes a difference too. And food. And training.

                                      I was shocked to see Niki's CANTER pic. Not only did it show faults she does not really have (over at the knee?), it hid her actual flaws (you made her l o n g neck and back somehow look compact?) and made a really quite pretty horse look very fugly. Her ears were back, whites of eyes showing...

                                      Since I have owned her, she has not looked less than pretty in a picture.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Get the book Winning by Frank Chapot.

                                        There is an EXCELLENT section on conformation.

                                        http://www.amazon.com/Winning-Frank-.../dp/0914327453

                                        In the book he critiques several top jumpers and talks about how their strengths and weakness played into their successes in the ring.
                                        Stoneybrook Farm Afton TN

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