• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Bending line question

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Bending line question

    This weekend I was listening to a discussion of bending lines and lead changes. One person said hunters ought to change their lead, which I am sure is incorrect, and Eq riders hold the lead. The other person argued opposite. My thought is hunters hold the lead and an Eq rider changes only if they are instructed to do so. What is coreect?

  • #2
    In Eq, I'd do a lead change, but perhaps in hunters doing a change would just disrupt the flow of the line. Perhaps just try extra hard to get the correct lead on landing.

    Comment


    • #3
      There is no "correct" lead within a line and Hunters go on with what they landed on to avoid a break in rhythm and step...because that stride with the change IS going to be a different size.

      Eq? Depends. If it's 5 strides or less, I'd hold because being even a half stride late or missing a step behind puts you at a disadvantage if you got an honest 3'6" or better spread fence out. Any longer then that you probably want to change. But...riders choice depending on which way they are turning after landing the out fence and how tight that might be.
      When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

      The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

      Comment


      • #4
        At WEF I was speaking to a very well known judge with whom I watched the Adult Hunter Classic with (hunter week). There were two bending lines, a 7 and a very long broken 11/12. We were discussing what was preferred and he said in his opinion the 7 should not have a lead change, ride it as a straight line (over shoot and angle the in) and if a rider had a lead change he would deduct points. In the very long line he suggested a lead change because it was so long and an easy swap in the center (to think of riding the two jumps as two singles) would be preferable unless the horse had a rough change then it would be better to hold your lead. He said in the eq he prefers the rider to hold the lead unless it is a very sharp bending line because it shows a level of skill to land and maintain your lead through a bend. It was interesting to hear such a great judges perspective and get some input from him!. Just as a heads up he was not judging just had clients riding in it and I happened to know and sit near him.

        Comment


        • #5
          BTW, usually if a line is more then 108', which would be 8 strides, you don't see the measurements listed on the course diagram in your average 3' Adult or Child class. At that point you are expected to quit counting and just ride the horse.

          I pinned quite well several times with one more then others did when it was 8+ strides because I didn't chase it and held the pace I came in with to the base of the oxer out.
          When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

          The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

          Comment


          • #6
            It depends on the horse and the line. For hunters, I would say they can change the lead in the line, but not that they should. You would, for instance, let a horse change that clearly wanted to do the change, because making him hold it would not be as smooth, or hold the lead on a horse that didn't have a smooth change because its change would interrupt the flow of the line.
            Eq horses, in my understanding, are always supposed to hold the lead.

            Comment


            • #7
              I usually try to pick up the lead that I will be turning into so that I don't have to worry about whether or not I should do a lead change. (doesn't always work though, lol....)

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by findeight View Post
                There is no "correct" lead within a line and Hunters go on with what they landed on to avoid a break in rhythm and step...because that stride with the change IS going to be a different size.

                Eq? Depends. If it's 5 strides or less, I'd hold because being even a half stride late or missing a step behind puts you at a disadvantage if you got an honest 3'6" or better spread fence out. Any longer then that you probably want to change. But...riders choice depending on which way they are turning after landing the out fence and how tight that might be.
                This. I also think that if you are balanced and looking to your next fence, a well tuned bigeq horse is probably going to land on the lead you want. And if your hunters, well then you can just pull the old grab at one side of his mouth and hope he swaps in the air.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Ive always been told that in a bending line, unless its a really long distance, you should hold your lead or otherwise it will be considered a swap and points will be deducted.
                  "to each his own..."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by jewll27 View Post
                    Ive always been told that in a bending line, unless its a really long distance, you should hold your lead or otherwise it will be considered a swap and points will be deducted.
                    That is correct-there is no "correct" lead in a line but should to stay on the same one you land on. Unless you are that 8+ stride bending line that is really whatever the horse does while you just keep going and hold the pace.
                    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      A VERY wise trainer (Jennifer Alfano) told me to hold whatever lead you're on. If you change, you've actually lost their focus on the next jump for a split second. Enough time to possibly make the next jump not so perfect.
                      www.thehuntinghorn.com

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by findeight View Post
                        That is correct-there is no "correct" lead in a line but should to stay on the same one you land on.
                        So, can I clarify!?

                        In hunters, you're on the outside line approaching on the left lead. You jump in and the horse lands on the right lead. He jumps out and either does a change in the corner to the left and lands on the left.

                        This is scored EXACTLY THE SAME as a horse who approaches the jump on the left lead, lands on the left lead and continues on left lead to the second fence, jumps out and either does a change to the left in the corner or lands left lead.

                        No difference in score? There is NO preference for being on the "correct" lead through the entire line? Even when it's a straight outside line and quite obviously to be approached on a certain lead and cantered away from on that same lead? No preference for holding that leas through the entire line and the approach/away?
                        ~Veronica
                        "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
                        http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          And my question isn't "what is smarter/better for the horse," because I tend to agree with the advice given that trying to do changes in a line can mess up the distance/quality of jump-- my question is to whether there's a scoring change for the two options.
                          ~Veronica
                          "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
                          http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by vxf111 View Post
                            No difference in score? There is NO preference for being on the "correct" lead through the entire line? Even when it's a straight outside line and quite obviously to be approached on a certain lead and cantered away from on that same lead? No preference for holding that leas through the entire line and the approach/away?
                            Nope, as long as you stay on the lead you land in on, there is no difference in score.

                            You CAN get fooled into thinking one got dinged for it though. Say horse comes off a left turn to an outside line on the left lead, lands in the line on the right lead and gets down and out well yet gets a deduction??? It is either for a last stride swap at the base of the oxer out or a drift to one side or the other within the line you can easily miss these unless it's right on front of you. Sometimes you get too wrapped up with the lead and miss a bunch of minor flaws then assume it was the lead too.

                            But of the horse goes center to center down a normal straight line with no swap within the line or at the base? No difference in score.
                            When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                            The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by vxf111 View Post
                              No difference in score? There is NO preference for being on the "correct" lead through the entire line? Even when it's a straight outside line and quite obviously to be approached on a certain lead and cantered away from on that same lead? No preference for holding that leas through the entire line and the approach/away?
                              assuming all lead changes were smooth and effortless and all other things being equal (which in the real world we know they never will be), no difference in score, aka no bonus points for being lucky enough (or having a horse so ring savvy as) to land on the correct lead. You might argue the judge would have a smooth round to watch because of no lead changes, but a good lead change is a thing of beauty to watch, so there is that.
                              Your crazy is showing. You might want to tuck that back in.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Actually, if you have one ring savvy enough to know he is turning left after the out and stays on the left lead down that line????

                                You may very well have a heck of a time keeping him off that inside standard as he gets a head start on cutting that upcoming corner. And if they have more then 3 shows in them-they know that corner is coming and they will try to cut it.

                                There is actually some wisdom in landing into that line on the right lead because it allows a natural right bend that can be held over the out and down to a lead change after that will keep them straight down that line and eliminate that corner cutting/inside drift.
                                When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                                The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by vxf111 View Post
                                  So, can I clarify!?

                                  In hunters, you're on the outside line approaching on the left lead. You jump in and the horse lands on the right lead. He jumps out and either does a change in the corner to the left and lands on the left.

                                  This is scored EXACTLY THE SAME as a horse who approaches the jump on the left lead, lands on the left lead and continues on left lead to the second fence, jumps out and either does a change to the left in the corner or lands left lead.

                                  No difference in score? There is NO preference for being on the "correct" lead through the entire line? Even when it's a straight outside line and quite obviously to be approached on a certain lead and cantered away from on that same lead? No preference for holding that leas through the entire line and the approach/away?
                                  but this is completely different than a bending line, which is why it seems to always raise a question as to whether changing leads in the middle is considered a swap or not...which was the original question.
                                  "to each his own..."

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Yes, changing leads inside a bending line is considered a swap. For most judges in most situations.
                                    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                                    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Hold the lead. Unless it's some million stride line, which I would consider two single fences and not a bending line.

                                      And yeah, as long as your changes are nice, it makes absolutely no difference at all if you land on your leads or if you have to do a change in every single corner. And it doen't matter what lead you're on when you're cantering through the middle of your line.
                                      Originally posted by tidy rabbit
                                      Oh, well, clearly you're not thoroughly indoctrinated to COTH yet, because finger pointing and drawing conclusions are the cornerstones of this great online community.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        This is scored EXACTLY THE SAME as a horse who approaches the jump on the left lead, lands on the left lead and continues on left lead to the second fence, jumps out and either does a change to the left in the corner or lands left lead.
                                        Yes.
                                        There are myths about oddball trainers out there who think there is a "correct" lead within the line, but I've never actually met one. You would think there's enough to worry about on course without making up more things to do "wrong".

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X