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Pre Green hunter rules

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  • Pre Green hunter rules

    I had a quick question!

    Was at a show recently and a horse I know from my zone was showing in the Pre Greens but this horse showed in the 3'6" equitation last fall? I know it wasn't reinstated because it's been doing the Big Eq locally since December. Is that allowed???

    It also did some 3'6" classes at the recent show where it did the pre greens.

    Just curious if I'm missing something in the rules.

    TIA!!

  • #2
    Cannot find a thing about Pre Greens in the 2011 USEF rules so it must be a zone specific thing and they MIGHT exclude Eq classes. Or this was not a rated show and they go by a different set of rules????

    No idea, really. But, especially if they do well, there would be no way they have evaded protest at a USEF AA rated level if it is illegal to openly cross enter a 3'6" Eq and a 3' Pre Green in that specific zone. Non rated with no steward, who knows.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      It's Zones 1 and 2. Where would one find Zone specs anyway? I've tried to find them on the USEF website for another question but couldn't find them?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by southernbell View Post
        It's Zones 1 and 2. Where would one find Zone specs anyway? I've tried to find them on the USEF website for another question but couldn't find them?
        I THINK they are on the USHJA site.
        Janet

        chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

        Comment


        • #5
          Ya know, you'd think they'd be there but I sure cannot find anything except proposed rule changes and new rules. Nothing for either Pre Greens or zones.

          If anybody knows where the zone rules regarding cross entry might be, please link.

          I did find HU 107 c on the USEF site but all it says is first year of showing at 3' BUT the zones can submit modifications and it does not deal with a cross entry into the Eq. All rather vague, really.
          Last edited by findeight; May. 13, 2011, 11:36 AM.
          When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

          The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

          Comment


          • #6
            Never figured out how to attache a link so don't know if this works. If not, on the USHJA website, click on zones on the left hand side, then pick your zone and click specifications.


            http://www.ushja.org/content/committees/zones.aspx
            Auventera Two:Some women would eat their own offspring if they had some dipping sauce.
            Serious Leigh: it sounds like her drama llama should be an old schoolmaster by now.

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              I was able to find the information on the USHJA site, so thanks so much for sending me in that direction!

              The rule for Zones 1 and 2 are that you cannot jump 3'6" regardless of whether Eq or Hunter and remain a pre green. That was what I thought but wasn't sure with all the recent rule changes....

              Comment


              • #8
                The Pre Green rules for Zone 1 and 2 are NOT the same.

                Pre-Green Hunter: Zone 2
                A pre-green hunter is a horse of any age in its first two consecutive years of showing that has never shown over
                fences 3'6" or higher. Fence height not to exceed 3'3". Horses may not cross enter any division where the fences are 3'6" or higher at the same competition. To be judged on performance, soundness and way of going. Horses not to jog. There will not be a Zone year end award for this division. Horses that are otherwise eligible may return to pregreen after a first year green reinstatement.

                There is often a first and a second year division with heights at 3' and 3'3". No Zone award. You get 2 years in this division. You can apply for reinstatement.

                ZONE 1
                Pre-Green Hunter: A Pre-Green Hunter is a horse that is not a First Year, Second Year or Regular Hunter
                under USEF rules. A horse may show as a Pre-Green Hunter for no more than two years once it has
                reached four years of age. Fence heights 3'. A year end award will be presented annually in this division.

                There is an age criteria, there is a zone award, fence heights are different, No mention of 3'6".
                Fan of Sea Accounts

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by PineTreeFarm View Post
                  The Pre Green rules for Zone 1 and 2 are NOT the same.

                  Pre-Green Hunter: Zone 2
                  A pre-green hunter is a horse of any age in its first two consecutive years of showing that has never shown over
                  fences 3'6" or higher. Fence height not to exceed 3'3". Horses may not cross enter any division where the fences are 3'6" or higher at the same competition. To be judged on performance, soundness and way of going. Horses not to jog. There will not be a Zone year end award for this division. Horses that are otherwise eligible may return to pregreen after a first year green reinstatement.

                  There is often a first and a second year division with heights at 3' and 3'3". No Zone award. You get 2 years in this division. You can apply for reinstatement.

                  ZONE 1
                  Pre-Green Hunter: A Pre-Green Hunter is a horse that is not a First Year, Second Year or Regular Hunter
                  under USEF rules. A horse may show as a Pre-Green Hunter for no more than two years once it has
                  reached four years of age. Fence heights 3'. A year end award will be presented annually in this division.

                  There is an age criteria, there is a zone award, fence heights are different, No mention of 3'6".
                  Actually if you look at the attached chart (from the USHJA site,) it is clear that Zone 1 also prohibits participation in the pre greens once the horse has shown at 3'6" - in any division.

                  http://www.ushja.org/content/committ...rZoneSpecs.pdf
                  **********
                  We move pretty fast for some rabid garden snails.
                  -PaulaEdwina

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by PineTreeFarm View Post
                    The Pre Green rules for Zone 1 and 2 are NOT the same.

                    Pre-Green Hunter: Zone 2
                    A pre-green hunter is a horse of any age in its first two consecutive years of showing that has never shown over
                    fences 3'6" or higher. Fence height not to exceed 3'3". Horses may not cross enter any division where the fences are 3'6" or higher at the same competition. To be judged on performance, soundness and way of going. Horses not to jog. There will not be a Zone year end award for this division. Horses that are otherwise eligible may return to pregreen after a first year green reinstatement.

                    There is often a first and a second year division with heights at 3' and 3'3". No Zone award. You get 2 years in this division. You can apply for reinstatement.

                    ZONE 1
                    Pre-Green Hunter: A Pre-Green Hunter is a horse that is not a First Year, Second Year or Regular Hunter
                    under USEF rules. A horse may show as a Pre-Green Hunter for no more than two years once it has
                    reached four years of age. Fence heights 3'. A year end award will be presented annually in this division.

                    There is an age criteria, there is a zone award, fence heights are different, No mention of 3'6".
                    Well, considering "green status is considered to be broken once it (horse) competes over fences 3’6” or higher" per USEF First Year rules, this is just a really confusing way to say the exact same thing.

                    But since I'm back in the rule book again, I'll post my latest confusion. Trying to figure out how to catergorize a horse I would have previously termed as "Eligible Regular Working Hunter" . . . but there is no more Regulars? Right? Are they keeping Regular Conformations? What do you call a horse that has finished its second year green? Eligible High Performance Hunter?

                    The rule book talks about High Performance under the heading Regular Working Hunter . . . so if anyone has any insight as to how the organizational thought process works over their please clue me in. Just trying to iron out what the new lingo will be.

                    Here's that plus their admittance they have no idea what's going on in the Pregreens.

                    Originally posted by usef
                    HU106 Regular Hunter – Definition and Classifications.
                    1. A High Performance or Performance Working Hunter is a horse of any age and is not restricted by previous showing.

                    2. The Green High Performance and Performance Hunter Sections may be divided into the following classifications: EC 4/18/11 Effective immediately
                    a. Small—not exceeding 15.2 and 1/2 hands.
                    b. Thoroughbred—registered in any stud book recognized by the Jockey Club.
                    c. Non-thoroughbred—not registered as in (b).
                    d. Three-year-olds
                    e. Four-year-olds and over

                    3. Pre-Green - Unless USHJA Zone Committees submit their specifications by August 1st, the following specifications will apply for the Pre-Green Hunter Divisions:
                    a. A Pre-Green Hunter is a horse of any age in his first year of showing over 3’ fences at Regular Competitions or Eventing Competitions of the Federation or Equine Canada or any national or international competition in any classes that require horses to jump 3’ or higher.
                    http://www.usef.org/documents/ruleBook/2011/16-HU.pdf

                    pg 8
                    Last edited by dags; May. 15, 2011, 12:20 PM. Reason: clean up quote
                    EHJ | FB | #140 | watch | #insta

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by dags View Post

                      Here's that plus their admittance they have no idea what's going on in the Pregreens.



                      http://www.usef.org/documents/ruleBook/2011/16-HU.pdf

                      pg 8
                      Yeah BUT they aren't supposed to HAVE any idea about PreGreens. It's a ZONE division, rules set by USHJA.

                      And the regs are different for Z2 and Z1. There is no age exemption in Z2, there is no mention of reinstatement in Z1.
                      But Z1 does need to clean up it's rule, There are no more Regular Working Hunters
                      Fan of Sea Accounts

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Can we bring this thread back?

                        Zone 2

                        Can a horse that has shown twice in a 3'6 division this year (2013) be reinstated so that they can step back to the 2nd year PreGreens (3'3)? I'm really having a hard time finding this information.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          A horse’s or pony’s green status may be reinstated for a future competition year if it was not shown at the regulation height at more than four (4) competitions prior to September 1st and if it was not shown at that height after September 1st in the same year.

                          http://www.usef.org/documents/hunter...pplication.pdf
                          **********
                          We move pretty fast for some rabid garden snails.
                          -PaulaEdwina

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thanks Lucass.... That said, there is confusion over getting back to PreGreen status... The horse has only shown twice at 3'6, but will zone rules allow it to be reinstated as a PreGreen?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by osgoka01 View Post
                              Thanks Lucass.... That said, there is confusion over getting back to PreGreen status... The horse has only shown twice at 3'6, but will zone rules allow it to be reinstated as a PreGreen?
                              Oh, sorry - attached the wrong link. Yes, assuming the horse is otherwise eligible, it is possible to go back to the PG ring:

                              a. A Pre-Green Hunter is a horse of any age in his first or second year of showing over 3’or 3’3” fences that has never competed over fences of 3’6” (1.07m) or
                              higher. A horse that receives a 1st Year Green Reinstatement may return to Pre-Green if it is otherwise eligible.
                              (emphasis added.)

                              Here is the correct link, sorry for the confusion: http://www.usef.org/documents/hunter...pplication.pdf
                              **********
                              We move pretty fast for some rabid garden snails.
                              -PaulaEdwina

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Many thanks!

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by osgoka01 View Post
                                  Thanks Lucass.... That said, there is confusion over getting back to PreGreen status... The horse has only shown twice at 3'6, but will zone rules allow it to be reinstated as a PreGreen?
                                  Since this thread started several years ago there have been changes in PreGreen.
                                  It is no longer governed by Zone rules. Instead the definition is at the USEF level.

                                  "3. Pre-Green - Unless USHJA Zone Committees submit their specifications by
                                  August 1st to the Federation, the following specifications will apply:
                                  a. A Pre-Green Hunter is a horse of any age in his first or second year of showing
                                  over 3’ or 3’3” fences that has never competed over fences of 3’6” (1.07m) or
                                  higher. A horse that receives a 1st Year Green Reinstatement may return to
                                  Pre-Green if it is otherwise eligible"

                                  I don't think ANY zones still include PreGreen specs in their rules.

                                  Rules for Pre Green reinstatement.

                                  e. A horse’s pre-green status may be reinstated for a future competition year if it
                                  was not shown at the 3’ height or 3’3” height at more than four (4) competitions
                                  prior to September 1st and if it was not shown at that height after September 1st
                                  in the same year.
                                  f. The Federation recorded owner must submit the pre-green reinstatement
                                  application, which must reach the Federation office on or before November 30th
                                  of the year of withdrawal. The request must be made during the year in which
                                  pre-green status was broken.
                                  g. A processing fee, a list of competitions with dates where the horse competed
                                  at its regulation height or higher, the horse’s name and Federation recording
                                  number must be included on the reinstatement application.

                                  h. At the time of request, the horse must stop competing over fences its respective height or higher for the remainder of that competition year.
                                  i. If the horse is not actively recorded at the time of request, it must be recorded/
                                  renewed at that time. Failure to do so will result in the horse losing its pre-green
                                  status. The owner will receive notification indicating the horses’ pre-green
                                  eligibility.
                                  j. A pre-green reinstatement will only be granted one time.
                                  k. In the event an owner of a horse is not satisfied with the decision, they may
                                  submit a written appeal to be heard by the Federation Hearing Committee with
                                  the required appeal fee. An appeal does not guaranguarantee the reinstatement will be granted."

                                  See HU105 for additional conditions for Green Hunter reinstatement.

                                  Depends when the horse broke Green or PreGreen status. If it was last year and you did not apply by November then you have a problem.
                                  Fan of Sea Accounts

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