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Ashlee Bond- Draw reins only? no reins?

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  • Ashlee Bond- Draw reins only? no reins?

    http://www.getmyfix.org/807/the-same-5-questions-3/

    I read on this site she rides in only draw reins.

    What are the benefits of this with no reins attached?

  • #2
    There aren't any.
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    • #3
      Originally posted by amastrike View Post
      There aren't any.
      Exactly
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      • #4
        Oh, but no, you can teach the horse that instead of raising the base of his neck (so he can raise his poll, and tilt his pelvis, to collect), he should drop the base of his neck and 'flex' between the second and third cervical vertebrae. This would only be of benefit if you wanted your horse "In a Frame" instead of properly collected, tho.

        reference here:
        http://www.bakersfielddressage.com/u...eframe-sec.pdf
        or here:
        http://www.equinestudies.org/true_co..._2008_pdf1.pdf
        See specifically the photo of the appy on page 13/14.


        Of course, to get the nice break between C2 and C3, you could alternatively practice rollkur.

        Comment


        • #5
          Some years ago, I used to see some western trainers warming up at shows and cuttings with just drawreins.
          Hare brained idea to just have those on.
          Because of what draw reins do, you don't have any real direct communication with the bit.
          All I could think, Darwin at work, some people like to live dangerously.

          That is not even considering what training with drawreins does to the horse, especially bad in the hands of those that don't know any better than using drawreins alone.

          Comment


          • #6
            I once leased a young horse that she had been riding/training prior to it coming to me. Let's just say the horse was lacking some serious fundamentals, and had no idea how to function without draw reins on. Lovely to ride with them, all over the place without them. Took us a while to figure out what was going on, very odd and frustrating. Reading that article puts the whole story together.

            Felt bad for the horse, he just didn't know what he was supposed to do.

            Comment


            • #7
              I read that recently and I was shocked. I liked her! Now, not so much.
              I do think draw reins can be beneficial if used sparingly and if you also ride without the draw reins during your ride. But JUST draw reins, no thank you.

              Comment


              • #8
                i love that draw reins are part of her answer to the question-"What is the one piece of riding equipment you can’t live without?"
                eek!

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                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  Perhaps there is a missing a piece of the puzzle with her answer.

                  She is an international rider, training with Richard Spooner. I have always liked her as well.

                  I have never seen this practice used, and especially wonder why you would remove the reins.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I knew of a QH and hunter trainer that did this.

                    He was good at his job. .

                    The deal was, you use the draw reins/reins ONLY for headset...the rest of the riding comes from seat/weight and leg. Of course his idea of headset was low and overbent, so not something I would do, but worked for him and his clients.
                    Freeing worms from cans everywhere!

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                    • #11
                      I've seen her father school the horses in the FEI schooling ring...I hate watching it. HATE. Watching. (I very rarely use the word hate, and this is a case where it is necessary) The few sessions I saw were pretty hard core. I have not seen Ashlee herself school the horses...maybe I was just never there when she was, so it is perhaps unfair of me to say this. But what I did see, was not my own personal cup of tea...then again...she is doing quite well in the ring so maybe I'm missing something.

                      Scant Rant....Is it just me or is it a fad now to wear ginormous spurs on every horse and a necessity to warm up in draws?? Seriously?!? Has it really come to this??? I mean, call me stupid, but I like my horses to move forward directly off my leg when I ask them to...there is no 'lag' time, and because of it, no need for use of spurs. I understand having them on just in case you need them for an extra jolt now and again, but the way I've been noticing them being used is rather excessive (IMHO). And draws...I will not even get started on that topic, guess I am seriously old school!

                      ~off soapbox~

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        OK...I threw my 3 yr old in draw reins the othr day...I know...GASP!!!!! HHowever, I am approaching 50, he is in his testing phase, I am a transplant patient with one eye and I am 4'11" with big boobs and short legs - plus I weigh 120 pounds. I had been in ICU two days before in DKA. So, it was either risk getting hurt AND teaching a baby that he can dump his rider, or doing the ULTIMATE sin and throwing a set of draw reins on him to help me keep him in my hands and in control. I chose the latter. Not happy about it, but it seemed necessary at the time.

                        Now, many would ask why I have this 3 yr old. Circumstances....thats all I can say.

                        They are a tool.....just as anything else. This woman is doing well in the ring, right? She is successful and her horses are sound. It may not be your choice of training methods, but if it is working for her (and frankly, I cant even begin to compare my abilities with hers) so I wont comment.

                        To add: I rode with my draw reins barely there...just an added aid if and when I needed them that day.
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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Silk View Post

                          They are a tool.....just as anything else. This woman is doing well in the ring, right? She is successful and her horses are sound. It may not be your choice of training methods, but if it is working for her (and frankly, I cant even begin to compare my abilities with hers) so I wont comment.

                          To add: I rode with my draw reins barely there...just an added aid if and when I needed them that day.
                          No one here is being the draw rein police, and this topic isn't about you and your very different use of them.

                          They have their place in the toolbox. And sure, Ashlee wins. Don't know if she's made any of her big horses up from scratch, but given my personal, first-hand experience (see prior post), I'd be justified to say the way the Bonds use them probably isn't very good for putting a solid foundation on a young horse.
                          Last edited by wanderlust; May. 7, 2011, 06:15 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Silk View Post
                            They are a tool.....just as anything else. This woman is doing well in the ring, right? She is successful and her horses are sound. It may not be your choice of training methods, but if it is working for her (and frankly, I cant even begin to compare my abilities with hers) so I wont comment.
                            Sure, she's doing well in the ring, but don't her horses matter? They might be sound and successful in the ring, but that does not necessarily mean their best interests are being taken into account, and that they are being worked in a manner that is beneficial to them as individuals. Just playing Devil's Advocate here.

                            Personally, I hate seeing horses being ridden off of draw reins solely but will reserve judgement because I do know very little of Bond's training methods personally. I don't feel the article was entirely clear and that it could have resulted in a misunderstanding (perhaps not though of course).
                            ....horses should be trained in such a way that they not only love their riders, but look forward to the time they are with them.
                            ~ Xenophon, 350 B.C.

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                            • #15
                              Am I reading this right? She rides in draw reins with NO reins!?!

                              Ignoring to training aspect that I don't agree with (not against draw reins at all and have used them my self... With normal reins!) but the safety factor of riding an unpredictable animal with it's head basically tied down? Imagine trying to do a one rein stop in only draw reins!!

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by wanderlust View Post
                                and this topic isn't about you and your very different use of them.

                                .
                                I apologize for adding to the conversation, Ms. Snarky <EYE ROLL>. Who the hell pissed in your coffee this morning?
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                                • #17
                                  Ugh- when I was 13 I was leasing a Paint pony that had been ridden hard-and-heavy by a much too large rider. Her back would always be hollowed, her head up, causing her to start muscling up under her neck, and her trot was way too quick. Even with lunge lessons, small circles, spirals, slow posting, all the exercises we could do, she would not quit it. She typically wouldn't buck, but had reared and would frequently spook and throw huge temper tantrums on random nights in the indoor about going to the far end of the ring. I took lessons on her at my aunt's barn, which is western pleasure and english (but all the horses are QH's so you can understand what exact type of hunter it is). She had me start riding Sugar in just draw reins. The instructor was a nurse before retiring and was ALWAYS safety conscious- which is why what she had me do surprised me. We typically didn't use them the whole time, if I remember correctly, we started with just getting her used to them and then building up to longer sessions and applying them more (muscles had to work up) and she DID learn to go nicely in them and her trot improved 110% and would carry on when we took the reins off, but still. What if something DID go wrong? We had other riders in the indoor at the same time, it was always at night and I was taking lessons from fall through winter so sometimes there was snow and stuff coming off the roof. If she had decided to take off, what would those draw reins do? Nothing but pull her head in. Eek. I didn't say anything at the time, but I certainly would NOT do that now!

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Crown Royal View Post
                                    Ugh- when I was 13 I was leasing a Paint pony that had been ridden hard-and-heavy by a much too large rider. Her back would always be hollowed, her head up, causing her to start muscling up under her neck, and her trot was way too quick. Even with lunge lessons, small circles, spirals, slow posting, all the exercises we could do, she would not quit it. She typically wouldn't buck, but had reared and would frequently spook and throw huge temper tantrums on random nights in the indoor about going to the far end of the ring. I took lessons on her at my aunt's barn, which is western pleasure and english (but all the horses are QH's so you can understand what exact type of hunter it is). She had me start riding Sugar in just draw reins. The instructor was a nurse before retiring and was ALWAYS safety conscious- which is why what she had me do surprised me. We typically didn't use them the whole time, if I remember correctly, we started with just getting her used to them and then building up to longer sessions and applying them more (muscles had to work up) and she DID learn to go nicely in them and her trot improved 110% and would carry on when we took the reins off, but still. What if something DID go wrong? We had other riders in the indoor at the same time, it was always at night and I was taking lessons from fall through winter so sometimes there was snow and stuff coming off the roof. If she had decided to take off, what would those draw reins do? Nothing but pull her head in. Eek. I didn't say anything at the time, but I certainly would NOT do that now!


                                    Right!
                                    You can do anything you want with drawreins with a regular rein attached anyway, so why not?

                                    We used to have regular reins and draw reins that were a bit narrower reins, so you could definitely tell the difference.
                                    We didn't hardly ever used them, they were a rare tool for a rare horse.

                                    Now, if you only have draw reins on and cantering your horse missteps, do you try to help it regain it's feet and the horse may somersault with you, or do you give it it's head and hope it can righten itself back up before crashing?

                                    Because of the physics involved, to ride with draw reins only is a wreck waiting to happen.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                                      You can do anything you want with drawreins with a regular rein attached anyway, so why not?

                                      This. I am not at all against using drawreins, they are definitely a useful tool, but I have seen her dad ride her horses with just draw reins and I do not see the point.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Ashlee Bond Explains Her Strategy

                                        Hi, Everyone:

                                        There were a lot of interesting points brought up here. And a lot of good questions. I went to the source to get a bit more insight and asked Ashlee to explain her draw rein strategy--what it accomplished and what parameters she sets on its use. Apparently, it's a tool she picked up from the Western world last year and not one she recommends for amateur riders. You can read her full response here:

                                        http://www.getmyfix.org/807/the-same-5-questions-3/

                                        I personally have never had the opportunity to see Ashlee train her horses, but from our brief conversations I'm really impressed by her open minded approach. I think there is a lot we can learn from other disciplines that is often overlooked because it's not the "norm." For instance, I bet a lot of hunters would benefit from the desensitizing techniques used by the mounted police. Or the ground tie taught to Western horses.

                                        As for draw reins specifically, I probably wouldn't use them without reins myself. Any horse I ride has enough to worry about with me on board without the added complication.

                                        That's my two cents.
                                        getmyfix.org
                                        Enabling hunter/jumper addicts everywhere.

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