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shoe pulling for flat class

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  • shoe pulling for flat class

    Hi,

    I'm not a hunter rider but read the article in the Chronicle Connection on pulling shoes for flat classes. I am interested in this -- it seems so strange?! I guess I would assume that a horse normally shod would be a little "gimpy" having shoes removed I wouldn't think that aluminum compared to barefoot would be that different. I'd think that pulling shoes that often would damage the hooves pretty badly, or is it just done at finals?

    If I missed an existing thread on this I apologize. Could someone explain this practice to me (it's effectiveness mostly, but also how it works, how widespread it is). Thanks!
    http://behindthebitblog.com
    Dressage, riding, sport horse blog
    BTBbrowbands.com
    Unique browbands for dressage and hunter riders

  • #2
    It's only done for REALLY big classes and, even then, only on the horses that might have a chance at a ribbon. Pulling the shoes can make an 8.5 mover a 9 mover, but I don't think it makes much more difference than that. In a competitive class, this could mean the difference between getting a ribbon or not.

    If the horse is going to be ouchy, its people won't pull the shoes.

    It's a matter of knowing if pulling the shoes will help and if they will help enough to make a difference for each particular horse.
    "Are you yawning? You don't ride well enough to yawn. I can yawn, because I ride better than you. Meredith Michael Beerbaum can yawn. But you? Not so much..."
    -George Morris

    Comment


    • #3
      There have been several threads on it, but in a nutshell, most reasonable people would only do it once in a while for a major, major show like Devon, Pony Finals, or Indoors.

      The horse or pony would get the shoes pulled just before the hack, and reset right after the class, often with the feet wrapped up in between, so usually there is not much damage to the foot. If you have a horse with tender feet, you wouldn't do it.

      It may make a horse move a hair better, and if you have one that is in contention at one of the major shows, you would do your best to be competitive.

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        makes more sense

        If this is true I guess I'm not sure why it's newsworthy. I was starting to think it was something people did at every show. Thanks for the followup!
        http://behindthebitblog.com
        Dressage, riding, sport horse blog
        BTBbrowbands.com
        Unique browbands for dressage and hunter riders

        Comment


        • #5
          We have aluminium plates put on for the big shows here. Put on the week before the show and worn for the duration (that includes Working hunter i.e. jumping classes).

          Comment


          • #6
            It's really not a big deal, and I can't believe Hope wrote a two page article about it (and that the Chronicle connection covered it). If the horse has good feet, they pull them at the ingate, and tack them back on as soon as they are done, using the same nail holes. Only for major shows- Devon, Menlo, etc. Of all the things that goes on at big horse shows with the hunters, this is so far down the list of things to worry about.

            Maybe they should have had an article about the magnesium injections that are dropping horses dead in the barn aisles? Now *that* would be worth a two page article.

            Comment


            • #7
              Wanderlust, it's probably a bit easier to find people willing to admit to pulling shoes.

              Comment


              • #8
                If I didn't know that this really went on, I would suspect that this was an April Fools thread...
                madeline
                * What you release is what you teach * Don't be distracted by unwanted behavior* Whoever waits the longest is the teacher. Van Hargis

                Comment


                • #9
                  Most American show hunters live in aluminum shoes as a matter of course.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Go to a show such as Capital Challenge, the line is out of the Farrier's stall having the shoes put back on after the hacks.
                    A good Farrier has no problem pulling and repalcing the shoes.
                    http://STA551.com
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                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Seems to me that it would save $ and would save the horse some trouble if you just banned this practice. That way everyone's in the same boat. I understand that if a lot of people are doing it and it truly improves the impression of the gaits, then other people would have to to be competitive, but why not just prohibit it. Seems better for the horse to avoid unnecessary unshoeing reshoeing.

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        banning it

                        Banning -- that's what the author of the article suggests. Horses that routinely go barefoot (there are some, apparently), would have the advantage in that case, if you believe that barefoot horses move better. I'm not crying too hard over the expense, I suspect at this level people aren't skipping meals to pay the farrier bill.

                        I still can't quite believe that a horse that is routinely shod would go better immediately after having shoes pulled. But it must be so?
                        http://behindthebitblog.com
                        Dressage, riding, sport horse blog
                        BTBbrowbands.com
                        Unique browbands for dressage and hunter riders

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          [QUOTE=staceyk;5521742
                          I still can't quite believe that a horse that is routinely shod would go better immediately after having shoes pulled. But it must be so?[/QUOTE]

                          On one of the previous (and lengthy) threads on this subject, someone posted videos of their very nice horse at Devon. One video was jumping, the other was taken in the flat class. The horse had his shoes pulled for the flat class.

                          Simply put, the horse looked off in the flat class. Not lame, but you could tell something wasn't right in the front. Your eye went right to it. His way of going was very affected, as his rider wanted it to be. In the jumping video, his movement between fences looked normal.

                          Many said that his way of moving in the flat class was exactly as the judges want them to go, and that's why shoes are pulled.

                          If you can find that thread, and the videos, it will clearly demonstrate the way movement is affected, and you can judge for yourself if it looks better or not.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            wow

                            The writer of the article in Chronical Connection says that at a large west coast show, her horses placed better after their shoes were pulled.

                            For a rider to admit that in spite of all her efforts and training, placing in a class came down to whether her horses were wearing shoes or not, is really something.

                            I hope the owners didn't read that ! They'll want their training money back.
                            Last edited by Mardi; Apr. 2, 2011, 12:42 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The funny thing is that there is absolutely no way of knowing if the horse would have placed the same on that day, in the same class, against the same company and under the same judge with the shoes on as it did without... so pulling the shoes might actually make no difference at all and it's just perception... and I suspect that this is the case. I'm quite sure that the judge doesn't look at the bottoms of the horses feet when he or she makes their decision.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Mardi View Post

                                Simply put, the horse looked off in the flat class. Not lame, but you could tell something wasn't right in the front. Your eye went right to it. His way of going was very affected, as his rider wanted it to be. In the jumping video, his movement between fences looked normal.

                                Many said that his way of moving in the flat class was exactly as the judges want them to go, and that's why shoes are pulled.

                                If you can find that thread, and the videos, it will clearly demonstrate the way movement is affected, and you can judge for yourself if it looks better or not.
                                Uh, he won the hack. At Devon. Just because it isn't what you are used to looking at or prefer doesn't mean he was off.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by fourmares View Post
                                  The funny thing is that there is absolutely no way of knowing if the horse would have placed the same on that day, in the same class, against the same company and under the same judge with the shoes on as it did without... so pulling the shoes might actually make no difference at all and it's just perception... and I suspect that this is the case. I'm quite sure that the judge doesn't look at the bottoms of the horses feet when he or she makes their decision.
                                  It's not about whether the horse has shoes or not, so no the judge doesn't look at the bottom of the feet. They look at pointing toes, free shoulder, flat knees, etc. That can be affected by removing shoes
                                  .

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by wanderlust View Post
                                    Uh, he won the hack. At Devon. Just because it isn't what you are used to looking at or prefer doesn't mean he was off.
                                    Yes, I understand he won the hack. He's a lovely horse.

                                    As I said before, when I say off, I wasn't referriing to lameness.
                                    My goodness, often times you can feel the difference when your horse throws a shoe ! What do we say then ? We say he feels off on that foot. "Off" meaning
                                    "different".

                                    Please....we all know that the way horses go when barefoot is not the same than when shod.
                                    That's why people take the shoes off at shows. If there was no visible difference, then the shoes would stay on.

                                    I'm not clear why people get upset when someone talks about the visible difference in movement.
                                    Isn't there supposed to be a visible difference ?

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Mardi View Post
                                      Simply put, the horse looked off in the flat class. Not lame, but you could tell something wasn't right in the front. Your eye went right to it.
                                      I remember seeing those videos. I do not remember the horse seeming NQR at all. If I remember correctly it won that flat class, at DEVON. It did move differently from jump class to hack class, but I didn't see anything that "wasn't right in the front"...
                                      ...for there are wings on these hooves, the speed and power of foam-capped waves...
                                      *~v~*~v~*~v~*~v~*~v~*~v~*~v~*
                                      Proud member of the artists clique

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Mardi View Post
                                        As I said before, when I say off, I wasn't referriing to lameness.My goodness, often times you can feel the difference when your horse throws a shoe ! What do we say then ? We say he feels off on that foot. "Off" meaning "different".
                                        Saying something "wasn't right in the front" comes off a lot more like you mean "off" in the more commonly used manner than in a "different" manner. Just saying...
                                        ...for there are wings on these hooves, the speed and power of foam-capped waves...
                                        *~v~*~v~*~v~*~v~*~v~*~v~*~v~*
                                        Proud member of the artists clique

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